12-25-2021, 03:37 PM
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#16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeepoo3
Welder/fabricator for years. He can make it perfect with a little skill. Id put it on a lathe and spin it. Hit it with a tiger paw until you have the perfect diameter calipered on the outside grooves. The inner grooves going to be a little more difficult with the correct type of file. Do it for fun who cares if you **** up.
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Yeah, but who has a lathe in their garage? Not many. He'd have to bring it to a shop for that.
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12-25-2021, 04:45 PM
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#17
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Well, I’m thinking garage mechanic and hand tools. No lathe or tiger paw in my world lol. Regardless, it looks like it was hammered a good bit. Brass hammer/punch may have been less harmful?
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12-25-2021, 05:06 PM
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#18
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Join Date: Sep 2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thennen
Well, I’m thinking garage mechanic and hand tools. No lathe or tiger paw in my world lol. Regardless, it looks like it was hammered a good bit. Brass hammer/punch may have been less harmful?
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Files will do the trick. You'll need a good precise one for the inner grooves. I forget the name of the file. It's a three sided triangle shape with a fine point to get the grooves completely right so you don't damage the mating splines. Putting back in.
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12-30-2021, 01:00 PM
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#19
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Sorry for the delayed response to everyone here, but, Holidays....
So, I worked on it, tried my damndest to get it right. Busted out the digital calipers, had some nice files, etc. But even when I was able to get it to work a little it still wouldn't finish going in.
I ended up working on it for longer than intended, forgot to eat and busted out a BFH. This did not help, but it did give me witness marks to follow!
Before I broke anything, the wife arrived home and insisted I put the 5lb Sledge down and eat something. (I did test the other axle shaft to make sure I didn't mess anything up and everything goes together perfectly and turns and sounds beautiful)
I did that, found reluctance to keep working on it and found a used one on eBay for $55 shipped that should be here today.
To answer the question as to what I paid and why I'm reluctant to go back to the shop complaining, I paid $100 to get both axles rebuilt, paid cash and provided parts, the shop let me pay the tech directly and he worked on them when he was in between jobs for the shop itself. They were super cool about doing the job, and, were $200 cheaper than the next place that offered. Do I wish it went better? Sure. Did I get one side done? Yeah. Should I check that side with grease for witness marks... probably. But I don't really know what going back will help with at this point, and I'm not really sure what I'd 'Want' from them (New bearing and other parts? I'm not sure I'd want guys working on another axle shaft after they were officially upside down on the job), plus, shit happens.
So, I'm going to wait for the new shaft to get in, see what the condition of everything is, and if the bearing looks good... it's going in without a rebuild. The only reason these guys got fragged to begin with was because of the breather valve it appears, and I've got a whole relocation kit for that now, so it shouldn't happen again. If I've got to rebuild the 'new' used axle shaft months down the line here, so be it. If it needs a rebuild now, fine. But I'm tired of not being able to drive my truck and my GTI looks like it has a starved bearing in one of the balance shafts, so, I've gotta go light that whole thing on fire now.
I really appreciate everyone's input here! And I'm not sure that I'm done messing with the other axle shaft just yet... but, who knows!
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12-30-2021, 03:07 PM
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#20
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Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiXXXerX
Sorry for the delayed response to everyone here, but, Holidays....
So, I worked on it, tried my damndest to get it right. Busted out the digital calipers, had some nice files, etc. But even when I was able to get it to work a little it still wouldn't finish going in.
I ended up working on it for longer than intended, forgot to eat and busted out a BFH. This did not help, but it did give me witness marks to follow!
Before I broke anything, the wife arrived home and insisted I put the 5lb Sledge down and eat something. (I did test the other axle shaft to make sure I didn't mess anything up and everything goes together perfectly and turns and sounds beautiful)
I did that, found reluctance to keep working on it and found a used one on eBay for $55 shipped that should be here today.
To answer the question as to what I paid and why I'm reluctant to go back to the shop complaining, I paid $100 to get both axles rebuilt, paid cash and provided parts, the shop let me pay the tech directly and he worked on them when he was in between jobs for the shop itself. They were super cool about doing the job, and, were $200 cheaper than the next place that offered. Do I wish it went better? Sure. Did I get one side done? Yeah. Should I check that side with grease for witness marks... probably. But I don't really know what going back will help with at this point, and I'm not really sure what I'd 'Want' from them (New bearing and other parts? I'm not sure I'd want guys working on another axle shaft after they were officially upside down on the job), plus, shit happens.
So, I'm going to wait for the new shaft to get in, see what the condition of everything is, and if the bearing looks good... it's going in without a rebuild. The only reason these guys got fragged to begin with was because of the breather valve it appears, and I've got a whole relocation kit for that now, so it shouldn't happen again. If I've got to rebuild the 'new' used axle shaft months down the line here, so be it. If it needs a rebuild now, fine. But I'm tired of not being able to drive my truck and my GTI looks like it has a starved bearing in one of the balance shafts, so, I've gotta go light that whole thing on fire now.
I really appreciate everyone's input here! And I'm not sure that I'm done messing with the other axle shaft just yet... but, who knows!
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You're probably taking the best approach. You have to know when to tap out and reduce the stress level, which it sounds like you're doing. It'll all work out fine anyway, I imagine. And it rarely pays to beat the heck out of a shop that seems to have tried to work with you. Even if it's a bad shop, be civil and simply don't go back is my standard approach.
Best wishes!
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12-30-2021, 11:46 PM
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#21
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I would really recommend making sure that the seal is riding in the correct spot. If it’s not it will leak and that gear oil will wash out all the grease in the wheel bearing and you’ll most likely have to replace the wheel bearing once you fix the seal again
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12-31-2021, 03:23 PM
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#22
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: San Jose, California
Age: 58
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Real Name: Tim
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Elite Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
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Well, I tried. OP, I don't care how cool those guys at the shop were, or maybe they even let you have your way with their sisters, the fact remains they screwed up your axle and then didn't even own up to it. In my opinion, that doesn't speak very highly of them. The guy who did the work had to have known he screwed up your axle yet he said nothing about. The guy and probably the shop itself lacks integrity. You let them get away with it and they've probably done the same to others and will continue to pass off shoddy work to their customers in the future.
But, it's your time and your wallet and it's clear you're ok with letting it go.
I agree with
@ Bad Luck
. Do yourself a favor and confirm you have a good mating of the inner retainer with the axle seal by performing a grease or sharpie test. Something tells me you're not going to be happy with what you find out.
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01-13-2022, 12:21 PM
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#23
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Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Orlando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbtim
Well, I tried. OP, I don't care how cool those guys at the shop were, or maybe they even let you have your way with their sisters, the fact remains they screwed up your axle and then didn't even own up to it. In my opinion, that doesn't speak very highly of them. The guy who did the work had to have known he screwed up your axle yet he said nothing about. The guy and probably the shop itself lacks integrity. You let them get away with it and they've probably done the same to others and will continue to pass off shoddy work to their customers in the future.
But, it's your time and your wallet and it's clear you're ok with letting it go.
I agree with
@ Bad Luck
. Do yourself a favor and confirm you have a good mating of the inner retainer with the axle seal by performing a grease or sharpie test. Something tells me you're not going to be happy with what you find out.
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So, how psyched are you gonna be to learn that you were right? lmao
I got my used axle shaft in, it looks like it had actually had the bearing replaced here relatively recently, everything was good and moving the way it should and looked almost brand new. Aside from some damage to the dust shield in shipping, it was pretty much perfect after cleanup. And with brute strength and an artistic eye, I was able to bend the shield back to looking pretty damn good (Axle shaft was $35 shipped from eBay after the seller gave me $20 off for the damage).
HOWEVER, I noticed some things that looked different compared to the axle shafts done by the shop. So, I went and grabbed the one 'good' one, and set them side-by-side. Here are the results (OEM is on the left, and, clearly has the right tolerances):
- Bearing isn't seated properly in race
- Collar and toneloc ring have been pushed WAY to far down, way to far to seal.
So, checking was absolutely the right call it turns out. And in this case, I absolutely 100% went back to them and was like 'Look guys, I tried my best not to bother you with shit, but this is unacceptable'. Which they were receptive to and are going to fix the issue for me.
We'll see what that entails and if it's done properly, or if they get another tech to do it, who knows. But, I did want to let you know that your inclination was spot on.
I'll update you with what happens next!
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01-13-2022, 01:29 PM
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#24
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: San Jose, California
Age: 58
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Real Name: Tim
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Elite Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: San Jose, California
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Real Name: Tim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiXXXerX
So, how psyched are you gonna be to learn that you were right? lmao
I got my used axle shaft in, it looks like it had actually had the bearing replaced here relatively recently, everything was good and moving the way it should and looked almost brand new. Aside from some damage to the dust shield in shipping, it was pretty much perfect after cleanup. And with brute strength and an artistic eye, I was able to bend the shield back to looking pretty damn good (Axle shaft was $35 shipped from eBay after the seller gave me $20 off for the damage).
HOWEVER, I noticed some things that looked different compared to the axle shafts done by the shop. So, I went and grabbed the one 'good' one, and set them side-by-side. Here are the results (OEM is on the left, and, clearly has the right tolerances):
- Bearing isn't seated properly in race
- Collar and toneloc ring have been pushed WAY to far down, way to far to seal.
So, checking was absolutely the right call it turns out. And in this case, I absolutely 100% went back to them and was like 'Look guys, I tried my best not to bother you with shit, but this is unacceptable'. Which they were receptive to and are going to fix the issue for me.
We'll see what that entails and if it's done properly, or if they get another tech to do it, who knows. But, I did want to let you know that your inclination was spot on.
I'll update you with what happens next!
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There's really nothing to be psyched about. I'm was just trying to give you good advice and not let that shop get away with screwing you over.
This rear axle seal/bearing job has to be the most commonly screwed up job dealerships, independent shops and machine shops do. You're definitely not alone.
I myself had this job botched for me by my local Toyota Dealer around 7 years ago. It was actually information I learned from this very forum to led me to find out they screwed it up. It was this botched job that got me off my ass to start doing most of my own wrenching. I quickly learned I could do just as well and often times better than the paid guys because I wasn't in a rush to get to the next job. I take my time and get it done right.
I always tell people with the Right Information, Right Tools and Right Level of Patience, people can be very successful doing their own wrenching. Maybe this experience will motivate you to buy a press and invest in more tools. A harbor freight press and the special service tool would have saved you a lot of headaches. Something to think about. Tools are an investment that quickly pay for themselves and continue to save you money over time. My advice, make the investment.
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01-13-2022, 03:38 PM
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#25
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New York-Lower Hudson Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiXXXerX
I absolutely 100% went back to them and was like 'Look guys, I tried my best not to bother you with shit, but this is unacceptable'. Which they were receptive to and are going to fix the issue for me.
We'll see what that entails and if it's done properly, or if they get another tech to do it, who knows. But, I did want to let you know that your inclination was spot on.
I'll update you with what happens next!
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Hate to say it but I wouldn’t be giving these guys a second chance as based on the pictures I see 2 possible scenarios:
1) They knew they screwed it up and sent it on it’s way or…..
2) They have no idea what they’re doing regarding the installation/positioning of retainer based on the revised seal.
Sometimes best to cut your losses and find someone that has first hand experience doing this particular job or like Tim suggested, buy the HF press and related tools and get it done 100% correct.
I did the above as I didn’t have faith in shops in my area and figured I would invest in a press and a few new tools and take my time doing the job.
Glad I did as now I have a sweet 20 ton press which I’m using to replace my suspension bushings, etc.
Got my fingers crossed the shop corrects the problem and your rear axles remain leak free.
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01-13-2022, 04:08 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Hot Springs, AR
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Real Name: Patrick
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Join Date: Feb 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiXXXerX
So, how psyched are you gonna be to learn that you were right? lmao
I got my used axle shaft in, it looks like it had actually had the bearing replaced here relatively recently, everything was good and moving the way it should and looked almost brand new. Aside from some damage to the dust shield in shipping, it was pretty much perfect after cleanup. And with brute strength and an artistic eye, I was able to bend the shield back to looking pretty damn good (Axle shaft was $35 shipped from eBay after the seller gave me $20 off for the damage).
HOWEVER, I noticed some things that looked different compared to the axle shafts done by the shop. So, I went and grabbed the one 'good' one, and set them side-by-side. Here are the results (OEM is on the left, and, clearly has the right tolerances):
- Bearing isn't seated properly in race
- Collar and toneloc ring have been pushed WAY to far down, way to far to seal.
So, checking was absolutely the right call it turns out. And in this case, I absolutely 100% went back to them and was like 'Look guys, I tried my best not to bother you with shit, but this is unacceptable'. Which they were receptive to and are going to fix the issue for me.
We'll see what that entails and if it's done properly, or if they get another tech to do it, who knows. But, I did want to let you know that your inclination was spot on.
I'll update you with what happens next!
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The inner retainer (closest to the axle splines/furthest from the wheel studs) needs to be flipped around for better sealing with the new design inner axle seal. I hope they get it right the second time around, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.
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01-13-2022, 06:37 PM
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#27
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Member
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Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Orlando
Posts: 74
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbtim
There's really nothing to be psyched about. I'm was just trying to give you good advice and not let that shop get away with screwing you over.
This rear axle seal/bearing job has to be the most commonly screwed up job dealerships, independent shops and machine shops do. You're definitely not alone.
I myself had this job botched for me by my local Toyota Dealer around 7 years ago. It was actually information I learned from this very forum to led me to find out they screwed it up. It was this botched job that got me off my ass to start doing most of my own wrenching. I quickly learned I could do just as well and often times better than the paid guys because I wasn't in a rush to get to the next job. I take my time and get it done right.
I always tell people with the Right Information, Right Tools and Right Level of Patience, people can be very successful doing their own wrenching. Maybe this experience will motivate you to buy a press and invest in more tools. A harbor freight press and the special service tool would have saved you a lot of headaches. Something to think about. Tools are an investment that quickly pay for themselves and continue to save you money over time. My advice, make the investment.
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I apologize for making it seem like I thought you would enjoy the fact that this happened, that's not what I meant at all. I know you're a hell of a dude that wants to help fix everything, so, I apologize if that's how it came off!
Got the axle shaft back from the shop today and it's all perfect and in spec. Did a grease test just to make sure, and it was good to go.
As far as the tool situation goes, I've got just about everything one could need, with the exception of a few tools. All of the work I do I do in my driveway open to the elements. I don't have a garage, and while I did recently build a shed, it's not entirely usable as it's so full it might burst. So, unfortunately there isn't anywhere for me to fit a press right now. I ALMOST bought one and the special tool used to installation and removal, but my wife would murder me if I put it on the porch (I've already had to let her use my drag-slick wheels as plant holders 'cause I can't put them anywhere else, lol).
So hopefully in the future here, I build a robust shed, or I build some sort of car port/enclousure/garage. But time will tell!
Thanks again for your help, I don't know if I would have caught it without having my eyes looking for mistakes to begin with.
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01-13-2022, 06:41 PM
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#28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Luck
The inner retainer (closest to the axle splines/furthest from the wheel studs) needs to be flipped around for better sealing with the new design inner axle seal. I hope they get it right the second time around, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.
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I know the MrCoffee mod is a thing, but it's hard to tell a shop that's already had issues installing something to OEM specs, to install something def. not in OEM.
That being said, while I absolutely get the fear with the new design, I did a grease test and it's sitting middle of the way in on the retainer, which should be more than enough to keep it sealed.
Next time hopefully I'll have a press and a garage ;)
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01-13-2022, 08:23 PM
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#29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiXXXerX
I know the MrCoffee mod is a thing, but it's hard to tell a shop that's already had issues installing something to OEM specs, to install something def. not in OEM.
That being said, while I absolutely get the fear with the new design, I did a grease test and it's sitting middle of the way in on the retainer, which should be more than enough to keep it sealed.
Next time hopefully I'll have a press and a garage ;)
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Glad to hear it worked out.
Keep an eye on it to make sure no leaks each time you do an oil change.
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