I was watching Timmy the toolman's video on replacing the lower ball joint and I checked out this link that he mentioned.

The different LBJ bolts and why it's important, Prado 90 Series — Mighty 90s Forum

Basically it looks like there's two different bolts, a stronger one and a weaker one, why they made the weaker one I'm not really sure... I mean it's longer so that way they can use the dust cover or whatever but the bolt is definitely weaker than the other one.

Here is a snip from that link:

Without dust covers:
8x 90105-10406 - green coated flange head bolt - 80nm - tensile estimate 12.9

With added dust covers, use 2 of each per side:
4x 90119-10933 - longer washer-head bolt - 50nm~59nm* - tensile estimate 8.8
4x 90105-10505 - red coated flange head bolt - 50nm~59nm* - tensile estimate 8.8
* 50~59nm is an approximation, not 100% confirmed.

That article is interesting, but I'd take it with a big grain of salt. He appears to be basing his tensile strength conclusions entirely on his torque test, which, as he says, were rudimentary. He doesn't say how many of each bolt type he tested - hopefully more than one, to get any statistical confidence.

And, as the one comment correctly points out, he is comparing torque to stretch, not load to stretch, which is dicey. Different bolt types have different friction properties (especially when comparing a flange head bolt to a bolt with washer), so 30 ft-lbs of torque may apply a 5,000 lbs load to one bolt type, but only 3,000 lbs to another bolt type. To do this correctly, he'd need to put the bolts in an Instron machine and measure the actual breaking load.

There may well be a difference in strength, but this test does not really prove that. And it would be really strange for Toyota to put the same bolt head markings on different grade bolts.

I went to the ARP bolts and torqued them to 54 pounds feet per ARP's recommendation. I'm opting to use loctite blue because I don't want to have to use heat to break the bond, it's just to keep them from wiggling loose for whatever reason.

I bought an extra pack (they come in a 5 pack) to keep on hand along with a small bottle of 242 and a torque wrench on the truck.

If this approach fails for whatever reason I will let y'all know.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Well that may be true, but I think in a real world setting this could explain why some people have had failures and some people have not. In terms of the boat shearing. If nothing else his test does show that torquing the weaker bolt to the higher amount does cripple it, so it could be that both bolts are strong enough load wise, but over torquing the weaker one cripples it to where it is no longer strong enough if that makes sense.

I mean we definitely know, again that some people have this issue and some people don't, so I feel like this could be a good explanation.

With my lower ball joints I ordered the newer version of the stronger bolt, when it comes in I'll take a picture of it and see if it does have that same green coating

Lastly, I do agree that it would be very strange to give them the same markings, but honestly I've seen Toyota do other weird things that don't make sense so I wouldn't put this past them lol

Speaking of the tests, that machine that you mentioned, do you happen to have one? If so I could send you a few of the bolts that I ordered so we can actually know for sure finally.

If not, do we know of anyone on the forms that has the equipment to do the actual test? I'd be more than willing to ship some of these bolts if they could do the test.

It is an interesting article. There's no way any of those bolts are 12.9's though. I've said this before but I'd love for someone to do a proper test with 100 of each of these and going until failure. Then average those numbers. That would tell us all we need to know. I'm way to lazy and stand by my experience of after market 10.9s not breaking under hard wheeling conditions.


Yep. A real test needs to be done. You are just the guy to do it. I'll donate $50 to help offset the bolt cost if you decide it would be a fun side project. I'm sure others will also help offset the bolt cost. One thing I'd like to see if it's done is all the bolts stripped of whatever coating they have applied. That way we can be relatively sure they are all being dry torqued.


Contrary to popular opinion you do not need heat to back out red loctited bolts. You just need an impact with balls or a breaker bar. I've had blue fail and allow them to back out. It's why I switched to red. My next step if red didn't work was gonna be JB Weld. lol

I'd be happy to oblige. Let me see what skids I need to grease to get this done, and I'll get back to you. I think that 5 bolts of each type should be more than enough to get a reliable idea of their breaking strength.

Radical. I can send you 5 of the "newer" bolts, part number 90080-10066.

@theesotericone

Since you offered to help as well, maybe you could get five of the newer, supposedly weaker bolts, and send them?

If we can make this happen, the whole community will finally know. Would definitely love to save people from using the wrong part. Especially if 90080-10066 is indeed strong and safe to use, because it's pretty damn cheap from Toyota!

Let me know how I can help too! That’s an interesting experiment.

Thanks @JZiggy . Let me see what I come up with tomorrow.

I would be willing to send some "used" bolts that only have a few thousand miles and about 5 hard wheeling trips on them. Would be a good comparison to see if they lose strength after a bunch of hard hits.

I missed this part at first. I'd want to have them tensile tested, as that is the ultimate indication of the bolt's strength. All tests involving torque are going to be less indicative of the actual bolt strength, and more dependent on friction in the threads and under the head. Trying to strip any coatings will help, but still leaves room for inconsistency.

So I'll try to get access to an Instron to pull those suckers to failure and see what that tells us.

Would testing ARP bolts to failure be valuable?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Okay so apparently I only have four spares versus five. For some reason I was really thinking that I had sex but I guess I only ordered for additional. Are we good with testing for? If not I can get some more but I just wanted to check.

Also for that last post, I don't think it would hurt to test that other brand, would be good to know if they do match up to what they list.

I have a couple spare ARPs and 8 spare early style LBJ bolts, new and not installed ever.

What do you think the tensile load will be to failure?