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Old 04-14-2022, 11:15 AM #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brillo_76 View Post
Time will tell. I expect issues with it. So additives will help. Being pre 2001 engines where never designed to run ethonal. Lots of testing seems to be done if folks dig around.

Isn't adding more ethonal to the gas going to curb mpg?

As adding 10% dropped the mpg some. Wouldn't adding more drop it slightly more?

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My 1995 115 Mercury outboard manual says E10 is okay to use and I've never had a problem with it. My manual for the 1999 Sienna also says E10 is okay to use and my 1991 Camry V6 (original owner) ran E10 until I donated it in 2020.

Since only about 1.5% of gas stations nationwide sell E15 (and conversion cost is prohibitively expensive as a short term investment) I doubt it will be a problem to get E10.
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Old 04-14-2022, 11:21 AM #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodudey2 View Post
Not sure where you found this info, but this is backwards.

Higher ethanol content is specifically sold in the summer to help reduce smog. From June - September is when E15 would be sold. The extra oxygen in ethanol is what is suppose to help reduce smog. Testing doesnít seem to show a significant improvement, but thatís the general idea.
Well, I posted two source links but you seem to have ignored them. Here's one of them, the Des Moines Register.

Sunlight drives the reaction that creates smog. And, as a result, the U.S. Clean Air Act bans the sale of E15 from June to Sept. 15 in some states.


Please provide a link for a difference of opinion.

President Joe Biden and E15: What to know about the renewable fuel
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Old 04-14-2022, 11:28 AM #33
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Originally Posted by ArthurKotb View Post
My 1995 115 Mercury outboard manual says E10 is okay to use and I've never had a problem with it. My manual for the 1999 Sienna also says E10 is okay to use and my 1991 Camry V6 (original owner) ran E10 until I donated it in 2020.



Since only about 1.5% of gas stations nationwide sell E15 (and conversion cost is prohibitively expensive as a short term investment) I doubt it will be a problem to get E10.
Yes. 10% has been approved by Toyota engineers yes ago. However, they really recommend never exceeding 10%.
The saving grace is only 1.5% of gas stations. So it's less the 2 stations out of a hundred..

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Old 04-14-2022, 01:34 PM #34
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In my state E15 is available all year round and 10c cheaper then E10


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Old 04-14-2022, 01:59 PM #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian. View Post
Having looked into converting my carb and points vehicles (computers!!??! We don't need no stinking computers where We're going!) to run on alcohol as a SHTF mental exercise... you have to RETARD timing because alcohol is far less volitile/takes longer for the flame-front to move through. Same reason it has a higher octane (resistance to pre-ignition) rating.
You have the "slower burn" portion correct - but you have to ignite the fuel EARLIER (advance the timing) to get max torque from higher octane/ethanol content.

Of course, E15 fuel with the same octane rating as E15 fuel would likely burn at the same rate. The rest of the fuel could be lower octane to make up for the extra ethanol content.

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Old 04-14-2022, 02:43 PM #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19963.4lsr5 View Post
In my state E15 is available all year round and 10c cheaper then E10


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We have very few stations around here with e 15. Mostly around the larger cities. Must be a central state thing.

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Old 04-14-2022, 06:08 PM #37
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Originally Posted by brillo_76 View Post
So if we are losing mpg at 10%. Then increasing another 5% we will lose more. How is this helping anything. As making ethonal takes more energy then it produces.

How much pollution is created by producing ethonal?

Is it wise to use corn and food to create it.

I would think this isn't going to help anything. The slight emmision loss isn't taking into account the emissions used to create ethonal.


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I think the reasoning behind removing the ban is to help out some areas of the country that the switch causes seasonally higher prices. This won't help where I live in CA as the winter blend contains more butane, not ethanol. Besides the gas stations always hike their prices at every major national holiday to make more money anyway. For 4th of July week it's not going to matter if they have 10% ethanol, 15% ethanol, or 20% cat pee. It's still going to cost more than it did the week before.

What it really is a minor policy change being announced as a major relief.
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Old 04-14-2022, 06:39 PM #38
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I think the reasoning behind removing the ban is to help out some areas of the country that the switch causes seasonally higher prices. This won't help where I live in CA as the winter blend contains more butane, not ethanol. Besides the gas stations always hike their prices at every major national holiday to make more money anyway. For 4th of July week it's not going to matter if they have 10% ethanol, 15% ethanol, or 20% cat pee. It's still going to cost more than it did the week before.



What it really is a minor policy change being announced as a major relief.
Maybe. I think ts not going to help a thing.

It will actually make things worse for a pile of people.

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Old 04-14-2022, 10:13 PM #39
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We have very few stations around here with e 15. Mostly around the larger cities. Must be a central state thing.

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Rutters is the only one in my area with E15


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Old 04-14-2022, 11:18 PM #40
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I lost the last ethanol free gas station around last year, I was so sad. Also was the last station stull using an analog display. At least it still lets people fill tires for free. I can still get ethanol free, but I would have to get the expensive high octane which is unnecessary.

I don't think I've yet encountered E15, the pumps are annoyingly vague when it comes to ethanol content. They always say "up to" 10% ethanol. Imagine buying protein powder and reading that it contains up to 10% flour, you'd probably assume that they are ripping you off. I don't see how being vague about the ethanol content is any different, your potentially buying gasoline with 10% filler.

Would higher ethanol cause smog check problems? That would really be the feather in the cap, especially since I have CA smog this year.
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Old 04-15-2022, 11:43 AM #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamefreakgc View Post
I think the reasoning behind removing the ban is to help out some areas of the country that the switch causes seasonally higher prices. This won't help where I live in CA as the winter blend contains more butane, not ethanol. Besides the gas stations always hike their prices at every major national holiday to make more money anyway. For 4th of July week it's not going to matter if they have 10% ethanol, 15% ethanol, or 20% cat pee. It's still going to cost more than it did the week before.

What it really is a minor policy change being announced as a major relief.
Exactly. This is the political establishment presenting the illusion that they are doing something about ridiculous dramatic steady rise in fuel prices since Jan 21. (that they created) Much like "releasing strategic oil reserves" or saving $0.16 on 4th of July cookout costs. $0.10/gallon savings...what a relief!
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Old 04-15-2022, 12:51 PM #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamefreakgc View Post
I think the reasoning behind removing the ban is to help out some areas of the country that the switch causes seasonally higher prices. This won't help where I live in CA as the winter blend contains more butane, not ethanol. Besides the gas stations always hike their prices at every major national holiday to make more money anyway. For 4th of July week it's not going to matter if they have 10% ethanol, 15% ethanol, or 20% cat pee. It's still going to cost more than it did the week before.

What it really is a minor policy change being announced as a major relief.
I feel like minor is even calling it a stretch. The most irritating part about it is watching how heavily some politicians are praising it - even as far as going onto social media to convince people it's actually better for your car and a better fuel all around. At a point its almost like theyre trying to sell it as E85. Just blood boiling
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Old 04-15-2022, 01:58 PM #43
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I don't think I've yet encountered E15, the pumps are annoyingly vague when it comes to ethanol content. They always say "up to" 10% ethanol.
E85 isn't 85% ethanol, either. It is often as low as 70% ethanol. That's why they need an ethanol sensor in the fuel system - to pre-adjust the fuel and timing maps for the actual ethanol content of the fuel. It also makes tuning for E85 without a flex fuel sensor a pain and risky.

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Old 04-15-2022, 10:53 PM #44
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E85 isn't 85% ethanol, either. It is often as low as 70% ethanol. That's why they need an ethanol sensor in the fuel system - to pre-adjust the fuel and timing maps for the actual ethanol content of the fuel. It also makes tuning for E85 without a flex fuel sensor a pain and risky.

-Charlie
Yeah I've heard that before. I read of some tuners mixing in a weak solution near E55-60 on purpose and then advancing timing as it would be catastrophic to set the timing on real E85 then get a tank of E60 without the driver knowing it.
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Exactly. This is the political establishment presenting the illusion that they are doing something about ridiculous dramatic steady rise in fuel prices since Jan 21. (that they created) Much like "releasing strategic oil reserves" or saving $0.16 on 4th of July cookout costs. $0.10/gallon savings...what a relief!
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