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Old 06-07-2022, 08:07 PM #1
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Major brake failure

So I’m posting this because I have no idea what to do next. I’m not brake expert and need opinions.

Went down to OBX this weekend and had pretty decent brakes on the way down. (I have the TBU) I had also just adjusted the rear shoes. However on the way down I hit some pretty hard bumps and I noticed my brake pedal started sinking to the floor. It still grabbed but didn’t catch till it was just about on the floor. I figured maybe it was some air that the bump had moved around so I went into ABS to see if that would move it around. The brakes instantly felt way better and were back to mostly normal. They stayed good for the 3 days I was down in OBX then on the way home in WV they went to floor again and kept getting worse. Nothing I did fixed it including ABS. I finally had to stop before someone got hurt and checked the rear brakes. The rear wheel cylinder maybe moved the shoe 1/8th of an inch. The shoes were well adjusted so that is not an issue. I had it towed to an autozone where I swapped the master and bled all 4 brakes twice. The pedal was much better however it only lasted for maybe 15 miles and the same issue started to come back. Any ideas what to do next?

The pedal pretty much sinks all the way to the floor and only has any braking effect at the last inch or so of travel and even then it’s barely enough to stop the car

Things I’ve done:
Changed master(Duralast gold new)
Check brake booster pin(moves instantly)
Master was properly bled
Brake fluid is all new at this point
NO loss of brake fluid at all
Getting a decent amount of fluid at each wheel during the bleed


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Old 06-07-2022, 08:40 PM #2
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Does the pedal like stop then creeps to the floor. Or just goto the floor to stop the rig.

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Old 06-07-2022, 08:56 PM #3
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brake booster check valve or hose going to it ? Ive only had the check valve malfunction in the opposite...meaning ridiculous hard pedal to push...but maybe it and or the hose can also do what your finding....I dont know...just guessing
how old are your rubber brake hoses....again...just thinking
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Old 06-07-2022, 08:56 PM #4
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Major brake failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by brillo_76 View Post
Does the pedal like stop then creeps to the floor. Or just goto the floor to stop the rig.

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There is slight resistance as it goes down to where it grabs. But once it hits where it grabs it really doesn’t go any lower


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Old 06-07-2022, 08:58 PM #5
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sounds like a pressure related issue... you replaced master already...and your not loosing fluid anyplace ?
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Old 06-07-2022, 08:59 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3bears View Post
brake booster check valve or hose going to it ? Ive only had the check valve malfunction in the opposite...meaning ridiculous hard pedal to push...but maybe it and or the hose can also do what your finding....I dont know...just guessing
how old are your rubber brake hoses....again...just thinking

See I thought that as well but immediately after I replaced the master the brakes were pretty much fine for about 15 miles. So that tells me it is working. The brake lines are probably factory so 25 years old? I don’t think they are the issue cause like I said once I replaced the master the brakes were great for ~15 miles or so


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Old 06-07-2022, 09:00 PM #7
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Originally Posted by 3bears View Post
sounds like a pressure related issue... you replaced master already...and your not loosing fluid anyplace ?

None whatsoever that I’ve seen. I’m going to trace all the lines tomorrow to rule that that out after driving 500 miles home I’ve noticed no difference in the level of fluid


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Old 06-07-2022, 09:04 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_welfare_wagon View Post
There is slight resistance as it goes down to where it grabs. But once it hits where it grabs it really doesn’t go any lower


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As that's how you rule out a master cylinder. Mostly they will hold you still and a stop light as your pedal creeps to the floor while waiting slowly.

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Old 06-07-2022, 09:07 PM #9
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Being it's a 1996. What happens when you pull the abs fuse? Does anything change or everything the same?

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Old 06-07-2022, 09:17 PM #10
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Being it's a 1996. What happens when you pull the abs fuse? Does anything change or everything the same?

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I’m gonna pull it tomorrow and let you guys know what happens. I do know that when I go as hard as I can on what’s left of brakes it will NOT ABS. My tires will lock up first. I should also note that the ABS pump does work on stuff like sand but on dry pavement it will not ABS


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Old 06-07-2022, 09:20 PM #11
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Does it seem like you have any rear brakes? Are your front brakes getting extremely hot?

I recently fixed a brake issue with mine, but the way you describe it, yours sounds way more dramatic and odd (where it "grabs" all of a sudden). Doesn't sound like brake fatigue due to no rear brakes. That is a more gradual effect as the rotor gets molten hot.
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Old 06-07-2022, 09:25 PM #12
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Originally Posted by PlutosT4r View Post
Does it seem like you have any rear brakes? Are your front brakes getting extremely hot?

I recently fixed a brake issue with mine, but the way you describe it, yours sounds way more dramatic and odd (where it "grabs" all of a sudden). Doesn't sound like brake fatigue due to no rear brakes. That is a more gradual effect as the rotor gets molten hot.

So going down the mountain pass my friend behind me said he smelled my brakes. I couldn’t get the right side drum off as the shoes were too tight on it. However the drum wasn’t hot and I checked it about 10 mins after I stopped the car. From what I saw the back brakes aren’t doing anything. When I pushed the pedal to the floor the wheel cylinder moved the shoe maybe 1/8th of an inch if even that much


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Old 06-07-2022, 09:36 PM #13
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Brakes get hot, so it's hard to say what is normal. Once you reach a certain temp, I'm told the fluid "boils" and there's just too much heat for the pads to be effective. You will feel the heat and smell it from inside the car. Tire pressure might be up 15+ psi. When I didn't have rear brakes, my wheels would lock up without abs kicking in, just like yours. Again, yours sounds a little more fishy though. Hope you find a solution, I'll be following.
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Old 06-07-2022, 10:01 PM #14
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This could also be the flex lines. The 2 front and the one rear. These rubber lines can fail and act like check valves instead of letting the fluid flow like they should.

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Old 06-07-2022, 10:12 PM #15
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Quote:
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... From what I saw the back brakes aren’t doing anything ...
Sorry, I missed this part. You may in fact be having the same issue I had. I'm just a YouTube connosuer
(sp?) So can't be certain. Check the function of both your parking brake and bell cranks. Easy to tell if one crank is frozen. A frozen bell crank could, eventually, cause issues on the opposite end, too. Don't ask me how, but it can. It can also limit the piston's effectiveness on the frozen end. Typing from my cell phone.
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