07-11-2022, 04:08 PM
|
#16
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,328
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,328
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Luck
You'll be fine getting the 1.8kw starter. When you pull your old one out compare the overall length of them. If it's the same length then you already had a 1.8kw starter.
Denso 280-0166 is 1.8kw starter
Denso 280-0167 is 1.4kw starter
I was going to buy a 1.8kw starter to replace my 1.4kw starter as preventative maintenance/upgrade. Amazon has the lowest price I've found Amazon.com: Denso- 2800166 REMAN STARTER : Automotive
|
Ah okay I see, I didn't see two different denso numbers at first!
Will the 1.8 still fit through the wheel well? Or will I need to go straight down? I don't have a sway bar in the front and someone mentioned to me that it might be easier to go down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skulking
For what it's worth, when I was getting ready to tackle my starter my local dealer told me that VIN lookup couldn't tell which starter was originally installed in a vehicle, and the only way to know was to check. The info 3bears gave on the different starters and when they were used lines up with what little info I could find. You should be fine to use the 1.8kw version even if you originally had the 1.4kw. The only time it should actually matter is if you are rebuilding as the internals are different.
|
Okay that makes me feel better, I mean maybe it's silly but I just didn't know like was there also a special/stronger flex plate to go with the 1.8kw one (i.e. you can only run the 1.8 with said special flexplate,etc.). But if it doesn't matter or if I already have the 1.8 then I guess it will be fine either way.
Last time I checked the flex plate it has zero cracks or rust so if she was meant to have a 1.4kw I was going to stick with that to baby her...lol. Really hope I don't ever have to change that thing...
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-11-2022, 04:37 PM
|
#17
|
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,035
Real Name: Jon
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,035
Real Name: Jon
|
Both will fit and bolt up. same thing with the alts.
The later years had a slight higher output. Not info needed in this thread about the alts but figured I mention it.
I temporarily put an late model alt on a 98. For many months. Then bought a remfg denso..
Now you got me thinking that i should upgrade my starter in my 5 speed when it clunks out. ;)
Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
__________________
7 3rd gens listed in the build thread (2 are parts mobiles)
Build Thread: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...os-builds.html
Brillo's Bucket Fluid Ex changer: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ml#post3358086
Sparks Plugs Wire and Coil Information: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...on-5vz-fe.html
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-11-2022, 04:38 PM
|
#18
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Hot Springs, AR
Posts: 4,410
Real Name: Patrick
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Hot Springs, AR
Posts: 4,410
Real Name: Patrick
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jross20
Ah okay I see, I didn't see two different denso numbers at first!
Will the 1.8 still fit through the wheel well? Or will I need to go straight down? I don't have a sway bar in the front and someone mentioned to me that it might be easier to go down.
Okay that makes me feel better, I mean maybe it's silly but I just didn't know like was there also a special/stronger flex plate to go with the 1.8kw one (i.e. you can only run the 1.8 with said special flexplate,etc.). But if it doesn't matter or if I already have the 1.8 then I guess it will be fine either way.
Last time I checked the flex plate it has zero cracks or rust so if she was meant to have a 1.4kw I was going to stick with that to baby her...lol. Really hope I don't ever have to change that thing...
|
I couldn't tell you to be honest. I haven't had to change a starter on one of these yet. It's the same flexplate for both starter versions. I would be highly surprised if you don't have a 1.8kw starter. Almost all v6 automatics got the 1.8kw starter.
__________________
2000 SR5 V6 Manual 4WD https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...biography.html
2000 Limited V6 Auto E-Locker Sold 3/2022
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-11-2022, 04:52 PM
|
#19
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,328
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,328
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Luck
I couldn't tell you to be honest. I haven't had to change a starter on one of these yet. It's the same flexplate for both starter versions. I would be highly surprised if you don't have a 1.8kw starter. Almost all v6 automatics got the 1.8kw starter.
|
Okay so maybe I'm just wearing too much about the flex plate. Especially if most of them already have the 1.8kw then it's probably completely fine.
Well big thanks to everybody!
Also for some fun random trivia... during my searches and test drives of ls400s I came to realize that the LS's start extremely fast. Almost comically fast. With all this talk of starters and kilowatts I actually looked it up to see what the rating was for the ls400 starter.
I was thinking: "man if a 4Runner is 1.8kw then that LS one must be like 3kw or something crazy high"
Nope... Just 2.0kw. Which is higher than 1.8 for sure, but I mean I don't think I've ever heard a starter turn as fast as the ones in LS400's... Assuming they have good batteries. I mean most ones intest drove probably started their v8's in like 1.0-1.5 seconds. Crazy.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-11-2022, 05:09 PM
|
#20
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Hot Springs, AR
Posts: 4,410
Real Name: Patrick
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Hot Springs, AR
Posts: 4,410
Real Name: Patrick
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jross20
Okay so maybe I'm just wearing too much about the flex plate. Especially if most of them already have the 1.8kw then it's probably completely fine.
Well big thanks to everybody!
Also for some fun random trivia... during my searches and test drives of ls400s I came to realize that the LS's start extremely fast. Almost comically fast. With all this talk of starters and kilowatts I actually looked it up to see what the rating was for the ls400 starter.
I was thinking: "man if a 4Runner is 1.8kw then that LS one must be like 3kw or something crazy high"
Nope... Just 2.0kw. Which is higher than 1.8 for sure, but I mean I don't think I've ever heard a starter turn as fast as the ones in LS400's... Assuming they have good batteries. I mean most ones intest drove probably started their v8's in like 1.0-1.5 seconds. Crazy.
|
I think ours take so long to start because the fuel pump doesn't start pumping until the ecm sees engine rpms from the starter engagement. Most other manufacturers prime the fuel pump when you put the key in the on position.
__________________
2000 SR5 V6 Manual 4WD https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...biography.html
2000 Limited V6 Auto E-Locker Sold 3/2022
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-11-2022, 09:38 PM
|
#22
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 522
|
|
Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 522
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by brillo_76
Lots of vehicles start the fuel pump on ign on. So they start really fast. As ours need to sense the rpm before the fuel pump relay engages.
I could be wrong. I agree with 3bears it's the manuals that use the smaller starter. Which doesn't make any sense as the v6 are the same engine.
Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
|
As best I understand, the 1.4kw is basically only used on 4 cylinder manuals without the cold weather package. If you have a v6, an automatic, or the cold weather package it is very likely that you have the 1.8kw. But even Toyota themselves don't seem to be 100% on that.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-11-2022, 09:54 PM
|
#23
|
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,035
Real Name: Jon
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,035
Real Name: Jon
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skulking
As best I understand, the 1.4kw is basically only used on 4 cylinder manuals without the cold weather package. If you have a v6, an automatic, or the cold weather package it is very likely that you have the 1.8kw. But even Toyota themselves don't seem to be 100% on that.
|
I am going to have to verify. As that makes sense. I can't see a different starter on v6 auto vs manual. Now makes sense 4 cylinder be different. As different bell housing and engine.
I don't own any 2wd or 4 cylinders. However, I do have v6 autos and one factory 5 speed v6.
I do see in rock auto lists both starters in the 3rd gen 4 runners snd the lower kw says manual.
Its also possible that the factory V6 autos have one starter and the factory v6 manual a different.
We find out here..
Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
__________________
7 3rd gens listed in the build thread (2 are parts mobiles)
Build Thread: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...os-builds.html
Brillo's Bucket Fluid Ex changer: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ml#post3358086
Sparks Plugs Wire and Coil Information: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...on-5vz-fe.html
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-11-2022, 10:24 PM
|
#24
|
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,035
Real Name: Jon
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,035
Real Name: Jon
|
I used parts.toyota.com to see what is listed by Toyota parts
V6 checked (3.4L) used model year 1997 and checked with 2000
Looks like its mostly manuals have the 1.4 starters as suggested
as the starter for them
Where the Autos have 1.8 starters suggested.
I know if I was replacing any 3rd gen with a remain I would replace with
the higher amperage one.
So I don't know if they used to use the smaller ones in the earlier year then switch to the higher ones only in the later years.
I will check my manual 5 speed down here to see which starter it has.. :-)
I agree that is quite possible the dealers don't know which one would be in your vehicle and if bought used we wouldn't know if someone changed it to the higher starter either..
Interesting topic indeed this one is..:-)
__________________
7 3rd gens listed in the build thread (2 are parts mobiles)
Build Thread: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...os-builds.html
Brillo's Bucket Fluid Ex changer: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ml#post3358086
Sparks Plugs Wire and Coil Information: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...on-5vz-fe.html
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-11-2022, 10:25 PM
|
#25
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,328
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,328
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Luck
I think ours take so long to start because the fuel pump doesn't start pumping until the ecm sees engine rpms from the starter engagement. Most other manufacturers prime the fuel pump when you put the key in the on position.
|
Oh wow I didn't know that. Maybe it wastes less fuel? Well hell, I was mainly referring to the spin up speed of the LS400's starter. It turns that v8 over with authority like I've never heard in a starter... lol
Check out this video, the quality if shit but if you just listen to the audio you can hear that starter turn over the engine at an absurd speed. This is just almost as fast as the two I test drove. I think they were in perfect condition with strong ass batteries I guess.
1992 Lexus LS400 Nightime Start-up & Rev - YouTube
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-12-2022, 02:52 PM
|
#26
|
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,035
Real Name: Jon
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,035
Real Name: Jon
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jross20
Oh wow I didn't know that. Maybe it wastes less fuel? Well hell, I was mainly referring to the spin up speed of the LS400's starter. It turns that v8 over with authority like I've never heard in a starter... lol
Check out this video, the quality if shit but if you just listen to the audio you can hear that starter turn over the engine at an absurd speed. This is just almost as fast as the two I test drove. I think they were in perfect condition with strong ass batteries I guess.
1992 Lexus LS400 Nightime Start-up & Rev - YouTube
|
It's a safety feature in case of crash or rollover damage. If your engine can't spin. You really don't want a fuel pump on. Thus it cuts the fuel off in case of fire..
Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
__________________
7 3rd gens listed in the build thread (2 are parts mobiles)
Build Thread: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...os-builds.html
Brillo's Bucket Fluid Ex changer: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ml#post3358086
Sparks Plugs Wire and Coil Information: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...on-5vz-fe.html
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-12-2022, 03:02 PM
|
#27
|
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,154
Real Name: C8H18 Mike
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,154
Real Name: C8H18 Mike
|
You can buy a contact and plunger kit and rebuild your current starter in about 10 mins once you have it out - it's not complicated
Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
__________________
.
1999 Toyota 4Runner SR5 Sport 4WD, V6 5-Speed e-Locker-> 4WD 4runner Journal Thread
1999 Toyota 4Runner SR5 Un-Sported 2WD, V6 Auto -> 2WD 4runner Journal Thread
1959 Chevy 3100 1/2 Ton Pickup EVERYTHING done 'cept paint and body
.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-13-2022, 07:50 AM
|
#28
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,328
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,328
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by octanejunkie
You can buy a contact and plunger kit and rebuild your current starter in about 10 mins once you have it out - it's not complicated
Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
|
Yeah that's what I'm going to do. The old one will become a spare.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-13-2022, 09:11 PM
|
#29
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 356
|
|
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 356
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by octanejunkie
You can buy a contact and plunger kit and rebuild your current starter in about 10 mins once you have it out - it's not complicated
Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
|
I did that about 14 years and 100k miles ago on mine. About 4 hours work total (very difficult removal, for a 15 minute job). If it happens again, I wonder if that alone would fix it, or there is more to a full rebuild, and, at 23 years and 210k, it would be time for that. Do you know if the Denso reman's get more replaced on them than the contact and plunger?
I will probably pre-emptively replace my alternator with a Denso reman, and was thinking of doing the same thing with the starter.
__________________
'99 SR5 V6 2WD named Jolene / In the T4R 200 Club
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
07-14-2022, 07:35 AM
|
#30
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,328
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,328
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outrider
I did that about 14 years and 100k miles ago on mine. About 4 hours work total (very difficult removal, for a 15 minute job). If it happens again, I wonder if that alone would fix it, or there is more to a full rebuild, and, at 23 years and 210k, it would be time for that. Do you know if the Denso reman's get more replaced on them than the contact and plunger?
I will probably pre-emptively replace my alternator with a Denso reman, and was thinking of doing the same thing with the starter.
|
Well I may be able to learn about that soon when I take apart the old one to rebuild it. I'm sure it has bearings and other parts that would need to be replaced, maybe? I'll post pictures once she's apart.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
|