07-14-2022, 11:09 AM
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#1
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official vendor
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Everything you always wanted to know about LBJ bolts
Which LBJ bolts are the strongest, how much torque should be applied during installation, and how much margin remains when the bolts are torqued to the recommended level?
These questions are the subject of some controversy on the 4Runner forums, but the answers are often speculation and opinion - until now. We are starting a series of tests over the next few weeks to gather data on bolt strength, torque vs preload, and torque to failure, to answer these questions (and more) about LBJ bolts.
We will be posting periodic updates here, but the majority of the details will be on our webpage - Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Lower Ball Joint (LBJ) Bolts - and More!
We will test five different OEM and aftermarket Lower Ball Joint (LBJ) bolts commonly used for the 3rd Gen Toyota 4Runner:
- Toyota 90080-10066 (replaces 90105-10406); Flanged Head Bolt; Green (1996-2000 4Runner)
- Toyota 90105-10505; Flanged Head Bolt; Red (2001-2002 4Runner, without boot)
- Toyota 90119-10933; Bolt with Washer (2001-2002 4Runner, with boot)
- Belmetric BF10X1.25X30YLW Grade 10.9 Zinc Plated Bolt
- ARP 663-1003 Bolt (8740 Chrome Moly)
In Part 1 of the test series, we will measure the torque vs. preload relationship for each bolt type. This will determine how much preload is generated at a given torque level, to see if some bolts are more "slippery" than others, and if a lower or higher installation torque value is warranted to obtain the required preload.
In Part 2, we will subject the bolts to destructive testing by measuring the torque needed to fail the bolts during installation. We will measure the actual torque required to fail the bolt, and document the failure mode (thread shear, tensile failure, etc).
Finally, in Part 3, we will test each bolt in an Instron machine to measure its tensile strength - the definitive indicator of bolt strength.
So stay tuned - this will be fun (and hopefully instructive!)
Last edited by Spiker Engineering; 07-23-2022 at 10:04 AM.
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07-14-2022, 01:52 PM
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#2
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You're my hero. Settling the debates once and for all!
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2000 SR5 4x4 | Geared, Locked and Fully restored OEM+ build.
Forged and Cammed 1UZ Single Turbo, Standalone ECU + Built R150 in process. Why, you ask? Because it makes no sense in this platform, and I love it!
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07-14-2022, 02:05 PM
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#3
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WOOOOO!
I was actually about to message you last night out of curiosity, haha. Can't wait to see the results and hopefully this will help save some guys and their trucks from disaster.
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07-14-2022, 02:38 PM
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#4
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I have a set of the ARPs in the garage waiting to go on the 4Runner, so I have a dog in this fight... (and accidentally overtorqued the currently installed bolts on one side of mine when I did the install years ago, so may have compromised hardware on there now)
-Charlie
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'99 4Runner SR5 Auto - 4WD swapped
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'17 Chevy Volt Premier
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07-14-2022, 03:25 PM
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#5
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It will be very reassuring to know when these bolts go from 'righty-tighty' to the very dreaded 'righty-loosey' state.
I guess the common failure modes on these LBJ bots are:
1) Overtorqued to the point the don't fail immediately, but are weakened and snap at some later point
2) Undertorqued, so the LBJ can start wiggling around in use and eventually loosen enough to fall off or shear* the bolts
* Shear strength of the bolts isn't being tested here, but that's NOT how the bolts are supposed to hold the LBJ in. Not even counting the locating collars on two of the bolt holes - the bolts are supposed to hold the LBJ so tightly to the upright that it won't move, not to prevent it from twisting by acting as a shear pin.
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'99 Highlander 5-spd manual e-locker no-running-board
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Manual front hubs, NWF Eco-crawler transfer case doubler, second gas tank
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07-14-2022, 08:17 PM
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#6
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Real Name: Robert');DROP TABLE Students;
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMc
It will be very reassuring to know when these bolts go from 'righty-tighty' to the very dreaded 'righty-loosey' state.
I guess the common failure modes on these LBJ bots are:
1) Overtorqued to the point the don't fail immediately, but are weakened and snap at some later point
2) Undertorqued, so the LBJ can start wiggling around in use and eventually loosen enough to fall off or shear* the bolts
* Shear strength of the bolts isn't being tested here, but that's NOT how the bolts are supposed to hold the LBJ in. Not even counting the locating collars on two of the bolt holes - the bolts are supposed to hold the LBJ so tightly to the upright that it won't move, not to prevent it from twisting by acting as a shear pin.
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Wait so “tighten until it starts getting loose again, then back off a quarter turn” is not the correct torque procedure?
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07-14-2022, 08:25 PM
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#7
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Yes. Having actual data is gonna be rad. I might start logging in more often. lol
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07-14-2022, 11:34 PM
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#9
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I'll take Door # 1 for 357,000 miles!
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07-15-2022, 07:32 AM
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#10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phattyduck
I have a set of the ARPs in the garage waiting to go on the 4Runner, so I have a dog in this fight... (and accidentally overtorqued the currently installed bolts on one side of mine when I did the install years ago, so may have compromised hardware on there now)
-Charlie
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I have the ARP's on mine now. I only have about 3 wheeling trips on them so far, but no issues with the OEM LBJs/ARP Combo.
You need the 35mm for the 01/02 LBJ with the Boot Protector.
30mm will work on 96-2000 without the Boot Protector.
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07-15-2022, 11:20 AM
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#11
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Bringing real engineering know-how to an enthusiast discussion forum. I love it!
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07-15-2022, 12:54 PM
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#12
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We should be able to finish the torque vs. preload testing this weekend, so place your bets now - will they all be the same? We'll soon find out!
Last edited by Spiker Engineering; 08-22-2022 at 11:07 AM.
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07-15-2022, 03:42 PM
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#13
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Elite Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thezentree
Wait so “tighten until it starts getting loose again, then back off a quarter turn” is not the correct torque procedure?
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We could probably go on all day...
-Charlie
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'99 4Runner SR5 Auto - 4WD swapped
'89 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GTE 5spd
'17 Chevy Volt Premier
'16 Honda Odyssey Elite
Previous: '88 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GE BEAMS, 90 Camry 3S-GTE, 90 Camry DX, '03 WRX wagon, '08 Outback XT
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07-16-2022, 09:31 AM
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#14
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Interesting thread. I look forward to your findings.
I've replaced mine with Toyota bolts at every ~100k LBJ replacement.
Andreas
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2001 SR5 4Runner 4WD, Dorado Gold, 546,XXX 1-owner miles
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07-17-2022, 11:30 PM
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#15
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official vendor
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official vendor
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We're having fun now! Just some teaser shots, I still need to do some serious data reduction.
Last edited by Spiker Engineering; 07-18-2022 at 08:30 PM.
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