12-02-2022, 03:15 PM
|
#77
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 5,380
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 5,380
|
Maxlife and Dex VI fluids are thinner than a Dex-III fluid, but are compatible. I find the shifts are a bit harsher with Dex VI or Maxlife, but that's just fine by me.
-Charlie
__________________
'99 4Runner SR5 Auto - 4WD swapped
'89 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GTE 5spd
'17 Chevy Volt Premier
'16 Honda Odyssey Elite
Previous: '88 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GE BEAMS, 90 Camry 3S-GTE, 90 Camry DX, '03 WRX wagon, '08 Outback XT
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-02-2022, 03:17 PM
|
#78
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Reno
Posts: 101
|
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Reno
Posts: 101
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgue467
Ok so it appears the spec sheet does say it is compatible with T, TII thru TIV and WS. (despite the bottle saying Nothing on back about it).
I contacted Valvoline and they pointed me to the spec sheet after they consulted with their experts, so all is good.
Now I'll throw this out there though I think we're still a go for using this. On the Tundras.com forum they all complain of how hot their trans run as designed, in the 220-240 range rather regularly. Apparently WS fluid is designed to run hotter all to help the trans be more efficient and slip less.
So this has to help our trans designed to run 200 or less I'm thinking. Thanks for all the help.
UPDATE: So them I called Toyo1 and asked them what fluid they suggested, guy went back to talk with techs, answer came back as 'use Toyota branded fluid'. I feel like I shouldn't have asked...
|
Yes the red bottle. They had it instock at my local walmart for much less than that amazon 3 pack fyi, also summit racing had cheaper 3 packs, any parts store, etc.
I asked Nick in one of my first conversations with him on the phone and he said they use the Toyota stuff but go ahead and run the maxlife if I wanted. I didn't receive any sort of recommendation sheet from them.
When I originally decided to use the maxlife many years ago I was under the impression that it broke down at a higher temperature than the Toyota WS (synthetic vs conventional I believe), which is why I went with it. Some quick googling and I can't support that vague memory, but if you search around this site and others there's been plenty of discussion. I use maxlife in various applications in all 3 of our vehicles so I'm extra inclined to stick with it, but I'm open to a new compelling reason to go back to Toyota WS if you find one.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-02-2022, 04:06 PM
|
#79
|
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,012
Real Name: Jon
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,012
Real Name: Jon
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulah
Yes the red bottle. They had it instock at my local walmart for much less than that amazon 3 pack fyi, also summit racing had cheaper 3 packs, any parts store, etc.
I asked Nick in one of my first conversations with him on the phone and he said they use the Toyota stuff but go ahead and run the maxlife if I wanted. I didn't receive any sort of recommendation sheet from them.
When I originally decided to use the maxlife many years ago I was under the impression that it broke down at a higher temperature than the Toyota WS (synthetic vs conventional I believe), which is why I went with it. Some quick googling and I can't support that vague memory, but if you search around this site and others there's been plenty of discussion. I use maxlife in various applications in all 3 of our vehicles so I'm extra inclined to stick with it, but I'm open to a new compelling reason to go back to Toyota WS if you find one.
|
There are technical bulletins against T4 fluid in our particular transmissions. I don't know about toyota ws fluid. [ thats made by Castrol import for toyota]
Sent from my SM-A536V using Tapatalk
__________________
7 3rd gens listed in the build thread (2 are parts mobiles)
Build Thread: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...os-builds.html
Brillo's Bucket Fluid Ex changer: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ml#post3358086
Sparks Plugs Wire and Coil Information: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...on-5vz-fe.html
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-02-2022, 04:08 PM
|
#80
|
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,012
Real Name: Jon
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,012
Real Name: Jon
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by phattyduck
Maxlife and Dex VI fluids are thinner than a Dex-III fluid, but are compatible. I find the shifts are a bit harsher with Dex VI or Maxlife, but that's just fine by me.
-Charlie
|
Oh that's what's causing the sharper shifts. Good to know as I thought it was just the fresh fluid doing it.
Sent from my SM-A536V using Tapatalk
__________________
7 3rd gens listed in the build thread (2 are parts mobiles)
Build Thread: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...os-builds.html
Brillo's Bucket Fluid Ex changer: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ml#post3358086
Sparks Plugs Wire and Coil Information: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...on-5vz-fe.html
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-04-2022, 12:22 AM
|
#81
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Reno
Posts: 101
|
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Reno
Posts: 101
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by brillo_76
There are technical bulletins against T4 fluid in our particular transmissions. I don't know about toyota ws fluid. [ thats made by Castrol import for toyota]
Sent from my SM-A536V using Tapatalk
|
Oops I was confused about the Toyota fluid as my other vehicles vehicles specify the Toyota WS, which didn't exist until 2004 i guess. I'm really not sure what's best but I'm going ahead with the maxlife hopefully tomorrow. Here's all the manual has to say:
Updates for those following along:
I pulled the incorrect pan but the gasket tore when I tried to remove it. Sourced a new cheapo gasket from autozone as Yota1 didn't include a replacement. Got the hard lines cleaned and installed, all the drive shafts are in and torqued, crossmember # 4, etc etc. I've got all my bumper lights and winch disconnected and a helper coming tomorrow to pull the bumper so I can install the new cooler and soft lines. After that it's final checklist time, fill fluids, install shifters and pray for a clean start without any scary noises.
I'll take a pan comparison photo tomorrow.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-04-2022, 12:48 PM
|
#82
|
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: San Jose, California
Age: 58
Posts: 5,264
Real Name: Tim
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: San Jose, California
Age: 58
Posts: 5,264
Real Name: Tim
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulah
Oops I was confused about the Toyota fluid as my other vehicles vehicles specify the Toyota WS, which didn't exist until 2004 i guess. I'm really not sure what's best but I'm going ahead with the maxlife hopefully tomorrow. Here's all the manual has to say:
Updates for those following along:
I pulled the incorrect pan but the gasket tore when I tried to remove it. Sourced a new cheapo gasket from autozone as Yota1 didn't include a replacement. Got the hard lines cleaned and installed, all the drive shafts are in and torqued, crossmember # 4, etc etc. I've got all my bumper lights and winch disconnected and a helper coming tomorrow to pull the bumper so I can install the new cooler and soft lines. After that it's final checklist time, fill fluids, install shifters and pray for a clean start without any scary noises.
I'll take a pan comparison photo tomorrow.
|
Did Yota1 tell you if the trans comes pre-filled with any fluid?
When
@ infamousRNR
(Sean) and I swapped a Toyota remanufactured trans into his 3rd Gen, there was some fluid in it but we couldn't get a clear answer from Toyota how much was in there. What we did is filled the trans until we could see fluid on the dipstick. We started it very briefly, like a couple seconds, and shut it down. Then we rechecked the level. If the level dropped and was no longer registering on the dipstick, we added until fluid level was registering again. We did it this way because we didn't know if the torque converter, which holds a lot of fluid, came mostly empty or possibly had an appreciable amount of fluid already in it. Once the fluid level stayed stable after a brief start and stop, we started the engine and let it run and checked the level on the dipstick. If the level wasn't in the cold range or not registering on the dipstick, we shut the engine down, added what we felt was the right amount erring on too little as opposed to too much, and then started the engine and checked the level. When we finally got the fluid level into the cold range on the dipstick while running, we took it for a test drive to make sure it was shifting properly and to also raise the fluid temp to the operating range which is somewhere around 158-176 F. We rechecked the fluid level with the trans at operating temp and dialed in the fluid level.
But, I'm guessing Yota1 told you how much fluid, if any, is in the trans. I just wanted to share what Sean and I had to do with his trans because the Toyota parts department we bought the trans from couldn't give us a clear answer how much fluid the trans was pre-filled with.
__________________
"My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it!"
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-04-2022, 03:39 PM
|
#83
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Reno
Posts: 101
|
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Reno
Posts: 101
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbtim
Did Yota1 tell you if the trans comes pre-filled with any fluid?
When
@ infamousRNR
(Sean) and I swapped a Toyota remanufactured trans into his 3rd Gen, there was some fluid in it but we couldn't get a clear answer from Toyota how much was in there. What we did is filled the trans until we could see fluid on the dipstick. We started it very briefly, like a couple seconds, and shut it down. Then we rechecked the level. If the level dropped and was no longer registering on the dipstick, we added until fluid level was registering again. We did it this way because we didn't know if the torque converter, which holds a lot of fluid, came mostly empty or possibly had an appreciable amount of fluid already in it. Once the fluid level stayed stable after a brief start and stop, we started the engine and let it run and checked the level on the dipstick. If the level wasn't in the cold range or not registering on the dipstick, we shut the engine down, added what we felt was the right amount erring on too little as opposed to too much, and then started the engine and checked the level. When we finally got the fluid level into the cold range on the dipstick while running, we took it for a test drive to make sure it was shifting properly and to also raise the fluid temp to the operating range which is somewhere around 158-176 F. We rechecked the fluid level with the trans at operating temp and dialed in the fluid level.
But, I'm guessing Yota1 told you how much fluid, if any, is in the trans. I just wanted to share what Sean and I had to do with his trans because the Toyota parts department we bought the trans from couldn't give us a clear answer how much fluid the trans was pre-filled with.
|
I don't believe there is any fluid in it, besides maybe gasket lubrication etc. I asked Nick about filling the torque converter in one of our first conversations after seeing it in your video, and as I recall he said don't worry about it, it fills very quickly. I also didn't notice any sloshing when i spun it a little to align bolt holes. The pan is dry.
In a later conversation when I asked about initial fill, neither of us could recall the exact capacity, but my extrapolation of the instructions is fill 4 quarts, tap the starter, add 4 quarts, bring to temperature, fine tune level. I'm going to monitor the dipstick level through the process, and probably add a little more after the second fill to account for the extra lines and aux cooler.
I think your process is excellent. Thank you.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-04-2022, 08:37 PM
|
#84
|
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: San Jose, California
Age: 58
Posts: 5,264
Real Name: Tim
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: San Jose, California
Age: 58
Posts: 5,264
Real Name: Tim
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulah
I don't believe there is any fluid in it, besides maybe gasket lubrication etc. I asked Nick about filling the torque converter in one of our first conversations after seeing it in your video, and as I recall he said don't worry about it, it fills very quickly. I also didn't notice any sloshing when i spun it a little to align bolt holes. The pan is dry.
In a later conversation when I asked about initial fill, neither of us could recall the exact capacity, but my extrapolation of the instructions is fill 4 quarts, tap the starter, add 4 quarts, bring to temperature, fine tune level. I'm going to monitor the dipstick level through the process, and probably add a little more after the second fill to account for the extra lines and aux cooler.
I think your process is excellent. Thank you.
|
The system holds approximately 12 quarts. If the trans is truly empty, I'd do the process you stated but do a 3rd addition with 3 quarts and then start the rig leaving it running to dial in the level. So 4 quarts, 4 quarts, and 3 quarts.
I don't know if tapping the starter is enough to move a significant amount of fluid. That's why we started the engine very briefly, no more than a couple seconds and then shut it down.
__________________
"My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it!"
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-04-2022, 10:55 PM
|
#85
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Reno
Posts: 101
|
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Reno
Posts: 101
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbtim
The system holds approximately 12 quarts. If the trans is truly empty, I'd do the process you stated but do a 3rd addition with 3 quarts and then start the rig leaving it running to dial in the level. So 4 quarts, 4 quarts, and 3 quarts.
I don't know if tapping the starter is enough to move a significant amount of fluid. That's why we started the engine very briefly, no more than a couple seconds and then shut it down.
|
I'll make sure not to run it excessively low, make sure the brief starts move fluid, and monitor the levels closely, thank you. I'll report back with how it goes and how much fluid I put in.
Other updates for those interested:
I ran in to some more hiccups today. I went to install my old pan that Yota1 shipped back to me with the gasket I sourced locally last night. There wasn't a drain plug in it so I had to swap that over, and they didn't include a single use crush washer either. Fortunately I had one in stock that I was able to find after some digging. I found it interesting that Yota1 appeared to use some FIPG on the drain plug threads in addition to the factory crush washer. I personally have never had a leak there. Here is a pan comparison photo:
Mine is the one with the bend in the fill tube. Make sure you get the right one.
I installed the drain pan by threading all the bolts in loosely in multiple passes. I then proceeded to the final pass to 65inlb and I discovered one of the holes had stripped threads. I marked it in white paint in the following photo:
I removed the bolt and saw there was a large amount of FIPG at the end of the bolt. I think I would have noticed it if it was there when I installed the bolt, and it leads me to conclude that the hole was likely filled to hold the bolt in and this was a known issue when the rebuild was conducted by Yota1. (EDIT see later post I no longer think this was likely the case, to be continued. apologies) Photo:
I can't say for certain I didn't strip the threads, though I was super gentle snugging stuff up and I was using an inch.pound torque wrench in the middle of its range. It has never been calibrated since I've owned it, but I have no reason to suspect it is off by a large amount. You could also probably conclude from this thread that I'm pretty meticulous about my torque procedures and there was no lapse in this process. I can also appreciate that discovering the failed threads after rebuilding this transmission wouldn't leave a ton of good options and all will probably be fine. That said, it was a very dissapointing discovery, especially when considered in conjuction with the other pan difficulties and related setbacks. Anyways, I called it a day here. (EDIT to add: while i was gentle snugging everything up, starting bolts through the paper gasket was sometimes difficult and the threads didnt always feel smooth, which is something that hasn't been rare in this project especially in threaded holes that have been painted. My initial installation of the gasket was misaligned. Upon further consideration, these threads should have felt smooth since I removed bolts from them. Apologies for being more confident in a conclusion that I now doubt upon further consideration).
I plan on calling Nick tomorrow and getting some suggestions I guess. It looks like the hole could be drilled out to a bolted through-hole if necessary, but maybe the rest of the bolt are sufficient with a dab of FIPG. I don't love either option after spending top dollar on this transmission obviously. (EDIT I plan to investigate more and think it's more likely i had some gasket issue and damaged the threads, again apologies)
Last edited by Gulah; 12-05-2022 at 01:51 AM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-04-2022, 11:09 PM
|
#86
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Northern California
Posts: 1,672
Real Name: Blair
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Northern California
Posts: 1,672
Real Name: Blair
|
I find it odd that a rebuilt transmission of this quality level (high) and expense did not have an oil fill sheet like a crate motor does.
Edit - I hadn't read your comments about the pan yet when I posted my previous remark. Hmmm...
__________________
258K - Y2K/E - Clock still works
Last edited by Endlessblockades; 12-04-2022 at 11:17 PM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-04-2022, 11:26 PM
|
#87
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Imperial County, CA
Posts: 2,353
Real Name: Jeff
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Imperial County, CA
Posts: 2,353
Real Name: Jeff
|
I just went through your whole thread and really appreciate your attention to detail and the accompanying pictures.
That is a big let down with that bolt. I agree with your assessment. Seems like a prime candidate for a helicoil. Not a perfect solution, but seems like it would work.
__________________
97 SR5 4runner: 2" OME Lift, rear E-Locker, 231mm Tundra Brakes, 203K, B&M 70264 Tranny Cooler, Duratracs
Build
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-05-2022, 12:12 AM
|
#88
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Reno
Posts: 101
|
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Reno
Posts: 101
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBurt
I just went through your whole thread and really appreciate your attention to detail and the accompanying pictures.
That is a big let down with that bolt. I agree with your assessment. Seems like a prime candidate for a helicoil. Not a perfect solution, but seems like it would work.
|
Thank you for the kind words and analysis. I agree a helicoil would probably be functional too.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-05-2022, 12:46 AM
|
#89
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Reno
Posts: 101
|
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Reno
Posts: 101
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulah
I'll make sure not to run it excessively low, make sure the brief starts move fluid, and monitor the levels closely, thank you. I'll report back with how it goes and how much fluid I put in.
Other updates for those interested:
I ran in to some more hiccups today. I went to install my old pan that Yota1 shipped back to me with the gasket I sourced locally last night. There wasn't a drain plug in it so I had to swap that over, and they didn't include a single use crush washer either. Fortunately I had one in stock that I was able to find after some digging. I found it interesting that Yota1 appeared to use some FIPG on the drain plug threads in addition to the factory crush washer. I personally have never had a leak there. Here is a pan comparison photo:
Mine is the one with the bend in the fill tube. Make sure you get the right one.
I installed the drain pan by threading all the bolts in loosely in multiple passes. I then proceeded to the final pass to 65inlb and I discovered one of the holes had stripped threads. I marked it in white paint in the following photo:
I removed the bolt and saw there was a large amount of FIPG at the end of the bolt. I think I would have noticed it if it was there when I installed the bolt, and it leads me to conclude that the hole was likely filled to hold the bolt in and this was a known issue when the rebuild was conducted by Yota1. Photo:
I can't say for certain I didn't strip the threads, though I was super gentle snugging stuff up and I was using an inch.pound torque wrench in the middle of its range. It has never been calibrated since I've owned it, but I have no reason to suspect it is off by a large amount. You could also probably conclude from this thread that I'm pretty meticulous about my torque procedures and there was no lapse in this process. I can also appreciate that discovering the failed threads after rebuilding this transmission wouldn't leave a ton of good options and all will probably be fine. That said, it was a very dissapointing discovery, especially when considered in conjuction with the other pan difficulties and related setbacks. Anyways, I called it a day here.
I plan on calling Nick tomorrow and getting some suggestions I guess. It looks like the hole could be drilled out to a bolted through-hole if necessary, but maybe the rest of the bolt are sufficient with a dab of FIPG. I don't love either option after spending top dollar on this transmission obviously.
|
I'm now wondering if maybe that is paper gasket material crushed into the end of the bolt. I did have an alignment issue as I was getting things started and the holes in the gasket are slightly smaller than the bolt. Insufficient thread engagement could strip out the bottom threads if load was applied on too few threads, and then my second attempt could have taken care of the remaing deeper threads. I would have thought the holes could 130in.lb which would be the worst case double loading scenario, but maybe not. I pulled two other bolts for comparison, I thought one had traces of FIPG but much less.
Definitely need to drop the pan and investigate more before jumping to any conclusions.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
12-10-2022, 08:41 AM
|
#90
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,145
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,145
|
Gulah - How's it going with the transmission from Toyo1?
Mine may arrive next week....
__________________
2001 Limited 4WD - 346+K - SunfireRed\Thunder Cloud; - 265/75/16 Michelin A/T2s - Fat Pat's 1.5" BL - StopTech ANGLED rotors - In series 699 trans cooler, New Yota1 transmission, All new OEM suspension front to rear.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Rate This Thread |
Linear Mode
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
|