02-26-2023, 05:07 PM
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#17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brillo_76
Tech stream I believe can cycle your ABS modules to make sure you get all the are out. :-)
I am sure some tools like a Autel Maxicheck auto brake bleed can do it as well.:-)
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I don’t think anything communicates with the ABS. That diagnostic port on the intake manifold is for jumper pins I think. Jumping two may run the abs motor. I never had luck finding any “tech” service info on it.
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02-26-2023, 05:26 PM
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#18
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Everyone has their own approach and sometimes multiple problems in the brake system can complicate a finished repair.
Initially, my brake problems were poor braking performance and a soft pedal. Before addressing those problems, something failed in the old drum brakes and the rear axle needed work. All of the sudden my car started to brake then lost braking power. I took it to the closest shop and $1800 later my rear was fixed but I left the shop with the same soft brake pedal and poor braking performance. The shop claimed everything else tested fine, but I knew something else was wrong.
I bought the Toyota shop manuals and started at the pedal. I installed a new rubber cover for the brake pedal and then adjusted the pedal height from the floor to make sure it was within the proper range.
Next I used a brake adjustment tool to measure the distance for the two connection points between the brake booster and master cylinder. I made a slight adjustment as I was also installing a new Beck Arnley master cylinder. Since I wasn't driving around town, I disconnected the entire ABS system and used banjo cap nuts to close off the original brake lines. The rear brakes were disconnected and I ran new brake line to two of the brake union points for the front calipers. Now that I only had front brakes and no ABS, I could see if the soft brake pedal was within that isolated setup.
I still had a soft pedal. I bench bled the new master cylinder beforehand and used a Speedi Bleed brake bleeder since the parts looked higher quality than what I was seeing on Amazon and eBay. I suspected some internal failure in the brake booster. I bought a new non Toyota booster off Amazon for around $83. After installing the new booster with my brake adjustment tool, I tested the setup and the pedal finally felt firm again.
My next step is to replace all four ABS speed sensors with some Holstein ones from Rock Auto. During all the other brake issues, my 2 right speed sensors failed so my car started swerving when the ABS was activated. Once I replace the sensors, and install some new nicer brake lines to the calipers, I'll bleed again with the ABS and rear brakes hooked up.
This is not a how to and probably lacked some safety precautions. I have a little money for parts here and there and don't have more finances to go to a shop. I do think I fixed a problem that the shop hadn't resolved. I have other work to do on the vehicle but won't move onto that until the brakes are working 100%.
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02-26-2023, 05:31 PM
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#19
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I also ordered a $100 laptop off eBay that will run Windows 7 through 10 which are compatible with with some mini vci hardware that connects to techstream software. I've read this software will actuate the ABS system as you bleed it through software prompts. I would prefer to test this software solution rather than trying to force my car to activate the ABS to do so.
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02-26-2023, 07:26 PM
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#20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19963.4lsr5
I don’t think anything communicates with the ABS. That diagnostic port on the intake manifold is for jumper pins I think. Jumping two may run the abs motor. I never had luck finding any “tech” service info on it.
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1996 through 2000 has only odb 1 connection. So there should be a way to jumper it or plug a diagnostic connector to it yo activate that abs.
The 2001 and 2002 will activate via texhstream. So I suspect there is a connector for obd 1 via through techstream to activate it. However; research would need to be done if you can jumper things to activate it.
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7 3rd gens listed in the build thread (2 are parts mobiles)
Build Thread: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...os-builds.html
Brillo's Bucket Fluid Ex changer: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ml#post3358086
Sparks Plugs Wire and Coil Information: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...on-5vz-fe.html
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02-26-2023, 07:35 PM
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#21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marksomnoms
I also ordered a $100 laptop off eBay that will run Windows 7 through 10 which are compatible with with some mini vci hardware that connects to techstream software. I've read this software will actuate the ABS system as you bleed it through software prompts. I would prefer to test this software solution rather than trying to force my car to activate the ABS to do so.
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I can understand that. I would watch on aftermarket electrical components. Some aftermarket parts don't play well with Toyota. So I could see abs sensor wires not functioning properly. Granted some aftermarket parts will function fine. So it's a toss up at times.
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7 3rd gens listed in the build thread (2 are parts mobiles)
Build Thread: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...os-builds.html
Brillo's Bucket Fluid Ex changer: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ml#post3358086
Sparks Plugs Wire and Coil Information: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...on-5vz-fe.html
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02-26-2023, 08:07 PM
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#22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brillo_76
I can understand that. I would watch on aftermarket electrical components. Some aftermarket parts don't play well with Toyota. So I could see abs sensor wires not functioning properly. Granted some aftermarket parts will function fine. So it's a toss up at times.
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I agree. I plan to replace some other components first so I can get a past due smog done. Later on, I would like to get OEM speed sensors.
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02-26-2023, 08:12 PM
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#23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marksomnoms
I agree. I plan to replace some other components first so I can get a past due smog done. Later on, I would like to get OEM speed sensors.
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You can sometimes get used OEM parts. That way you can save some $$ and as long as they function properly, your golden. :-)
I used used ABS sensors before..They worked..
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7 3rd gens listed in the build thread (2 are parts mobiles)
Build Thread: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...os-builds.html
Brillo's Bucket Fluid Ex changer: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ml#post3358086
Sparks Plugs Wire and Coil Information: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...on-5vz-fe.html
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02-27-2023, 03:37 PM
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#24
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would it be alright to loosen the outgoing brake tubes from the abs then pump the brake pedal? similar to bleeding the calipers?
or would that worsen the situation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19963.4lsr5
Only easy way to bleed the abs is to first do a brake bleed and then activate the abs and do another bleed if your pedal gets soft.
Edit: it took me three ABS activations on wet roads before my pedal firmness felt the same before and after activation.
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02-27-2023, 03:39 PM
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#25
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would it be possible to purchase the Tech stream device? do you know which model?
Do you also know which Autel model to buy?
Just looking at my options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brillo_76
Tech stream I believe can cycle your ABS modules to make sure you get all the are out. :-)
I am sure some tools like a Autel Maxicheck auto brake bleed can do it as well.:-)
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02-27-2023, 04:15 PM
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#26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiluxSurf SSR-G
it's possible. would you happen to know how to bleed the abs actuator/pump?
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This one is extremely hard to bleed as it sits very high in the engine bay. Air likes to trap here and never come back out.
Over-excessive bleeding is the only way I got it out of mine. I had a clue though, when I bled the front passenger brake I heard a 'whine' as the fluid was pressed out coming from the engine bay that none of the others had. Kind of like when the faucet it turned down real low to make a whine noise, if you've ever heard it. That told me there was air in that ABS line and not the others. After doing it like 20 times sure enough air came out and the whine was gone. Has to be done quickly though otherwise the air just travels right back up the brake line into the ABS unit again.
Persistence is key here.
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02-27-2023, 05:16 PM
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#28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiluxSurf SSR-G
The brakes were bled 3x and the MC was bled prior. But the pedal is still very soft with no brakes. after pumping the pedal a few times, it hardens a bit but won't hold, the pedal just goes to the floor.
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What was your master cylinder bleed procedure? Did you follow the FSM to the letter?
It is NOT the normal procedure for bench bleeding a master cylinder, which is why I ask. Also note the bleeding order for the wheels.
You likely have two things stacking up - incorrectly bled master AND air bubbles in the ABS system. Once you get the master cylinder bled correctly (you'll hear a little "clink" in there when doing it - that's the thing on the side that helps with brake feel on the rear drums). Then you'll have enough pressure to go for a drive and activate ABS on a low-traction surface - then re-bleed, and repeat.
-Charlie
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02-27-2023, 06:44 PM
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#29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiluxSurf SSR-G
would it be alright to loosen the outgoing brake tubes from the abs then pump the brake pedal? similar to bleeding the calipers?
or would that worsen the situation?
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That won’t do anything. The valves only open when the abs motor activates.
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02-27-2023, 08:06 PM
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#30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phattyduck
What was your master cylinder bleed procedure? Did you follow the FSM to the letter?
It is NOT the normal procedure for bench bleeding a master cylinder, which is why I ask. Also note the bleeding order for the wheels.
You likely have two things stacking up - incorrectly bled master AND air bubbles in the ABS system. Once you get the master cylinder bled correctly (you'll hear a little "clink" in there when doing it - that's the thing on the side that helps with brake feel on the rear drums). Then you'll have enough pressure to go for a drive and activate ABS on a low-traction surface - then re-bleed, and repeat.
-Charlie
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I will add to this that it helps to also do it with the engine running for bleeding the lines. It mentions having the pump running in equipped 01-02 4Runners (not sure about the Hilux) but it also helps for the older brake booster type systems. Allows for more pressure to push the air out. I always get better results from bleeding with engine on than off.
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