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Old 10-17-2023, 12:51 PM #1
Mendoncyclesmith Mendoncyclesmith is offline
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Trying to sort out wheel offset versus wheel spacer blocks

Hey all, I've played around at this already to some extent, but I've decided that I'd rather just do what's proper, and I cannot get straight answers from anyone, it's always "bolt it on and see, then deal with the issues.

96, total combined lift, 4.5" front, 3.5 rear. 2" suspension lift, then spacer blocks to level the front end out, but the 2.5 in front was too much, so I had to add 1.5 out back. Level now.

Slapped on metric 32's this past Spring, and made a stupid choice in model, so I'm looking to move them on and get the right things now.

I've had tire rub in the front when cranked to the stops, and the suspension moving deeply into travel with my old 31's, these new 32's are less aggressive, so I'm guessing the side knobs on the old ones were the "issue".

But going to a more aggressive 33, will bring it screaming back.

So, questions:

Is there a known, accepted offset number for wheels on gen 3's as tire size increases, to prevent rub? Not going super wide, just 10.5 of so.

Like, "oh, 1.5" offset wheels and you're golden till you get to ridiculous sizes", or something?

Second, any reason why I should do offset wheels versus spacer blocks behind the wheels? They seem sketchy to me, conceptually, but I may be totally off base. Obviously cheaper, so I'd go that way if they're just as safe and effective. Same question here then. What offset? 1", 1.5", 2"???

I really prefer bolt and go, not, "okay it's on, but we have problems X,Y, and Z, that you now need to go figure out the solutions for"....

Thanks!
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Old 10-17-2023, 01:27 PM #2
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The wider you go, the more tire rub you will have due to the Scrub Radius becoming larger. Stock wheels with 285's and aftermarket Upper Control Arms with Caster Correction would rub the least, if at all, once you pound down the pinch weld. Wider wheels with the same tires will contact the front and rear of the fender sooner. You'll have to do more trimming. A body lift will help alleviate these issues more than anything else.
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Old 10-17-2023, 01:31 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoncyclesmith View Post
Hey all, I've played around at this already to some extent, but I've decided that I'd rather just do what's proper, and I cannot get straight answers from anyone, it's always "bolt it on and see, then deal with the issues.

96, total combined lift, 4.5" front, 3.5 rear. 2" suspension lift, then spacer blocks to level the front end out, but the 2.5 in front was too much, so I had to add 1.5 out back. Level now.

Slapped on metric 32's this past Spring, and made a stupid choice in model, so I'm looking to move them on and get the right things now.

I've had tire rub in the front when cranked to the stops, and the suspension moving deeply into travel with my old 31's, these new 32's are less aggressive, so I'm guessing the side knobs on the old ones were the "issue".

But going to a more aggressive 33, will bring it screaming back.

So, questions:

Is there a known, accepted offset number for wheels on gen 3's as tire size increases, to prevent rub? Not going super wide, just 10.5 of so.

Like, "oh, 1.5" offset wheels and you're golden till you get to ridiculous sizes", or something?

Second, any reason why I should do offset wheels versus spacer blocks behind the wheels? They seem sketchy to me, conceptually, but I may be totally off base. Obviously cheaper, so I'd go that way if they're just as safe and effective. Same question here then. What offset? 1", 1.5", 2"???

I really prefer bolt and go, not, "okay it's on, but we have problems X,Y, and Z, that you now need to go figure out the solutions for"....

Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoncyclesmith View Post
Hey all, I've played around at this already to some extent, but I've decided that I'd rather just do what's proper, and I cannot get straight answers from anyone, it's always "bolt it on and see, then deal with the issues.

96, total combined lift, 4.5" front, 3.5 rear. 2" suspension lift, then spacer blocks to level the front end out, but the 2.5 in front was too much, so I had to add 1.5 out back. Level now.

Slapped on metric 32's this past Spring, and made a stupid choice in model, so I'm looking to move them on and get the right things now.

I've had tire rub in the front when cranked to the stops, and the suspension moving deeply into travel with my old 31's, these new 32's are less aggressive, so I'm guessing the side knobs on the old ones were the "issue".

But going to a more aggressive 33, will bring it screaming back.

So, questions:

Is there a known, accepted offset number for wheels on gen 3's as tire size increases, to prevent rub? Not going super wide, just 10.5 of so.

Like, "oh, 1.5" offset wheels and you're golden till you get to ridiculous sizes", or something?

Second, any reason why I should do offset wheels versus spacer blocks behind the wheels? They seem sketchy to me, conceptually, but I may be totally off base. Obviously cheaper, so I'd go that way if they're just as safe and effective. Same question here then. What offset? 1", 1.5", 2"???

I really prefer bolt and go, not, "okay it's on, but we have problems X,Y, and Z, that you now need to go figure out the solutions for"....

Thanks!

Iím running 33.5Ē or 255/85/16(stock wheels) and Iím using a 1.25 spacer and I have pretty much no rubbing. I did have to beat back the firewall but it only took about 10mins to do. I also have a 2-2.5Ē front lift.

As far as spacers vs new wheels, if you like your wheels Iíd just get spacers, make sure you get a reputable brand though and perform periodic checks on them. Spidertrax makes a 1.25 that a lot members including myself use and they have been fantastic, knock on wood lol

Width is the issue with these trucks not height when it comes to tires. Not sure if this answers your question but when it comes to adding oversize tires you will have to cut/trim or beat back something thatís in the way. Thereís going to be no avoiding that unfortunately


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Old 10-18-2023, 10:45 AM #4
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Thanks, appreciate the responses.

"Beating back the firewall" sounds a lot sketchier than it may be, am I just repositioning sheet steel with a hammer, or is it a more refined procedure?

I'm not married to my wheels, no, but if spacers are equally safe and functional, no point in just burning money. Have a buddy that got a new Bronco and he got offset wheels to fit his 35's in, and said with the wheels it was bolt and go, hence my questions now. Obviously, Ford, not Toyota, but I'm not enough of a car guy to know if one is more accommodating than the other...

I guess I need to wade into the confusing world of tire sizes and see what I want, then I can be more precise in my questions.

Bicycle tire sizing is SO much more straight forward, choose diameter and width, and go. Aspect ratio crap makes my head spin.
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Old 10-18-2023, 01:46 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoncyclesmith View Post
Thanks, appreciate the responses.

"Beating back the firewall" sounds a lot sketchier than it may be, am I just repositioning sheet steel with a hammer, or is it a more refined procedure?

I'm not married to my wheels, no, but if spacers are equally safe and functional, no point in just burning money. Have a buddy that got a new Bronco and he got offset wheels to fit his 35's in, and said with the wheels it was bolt and go, hence my questions now. Obviously, Ford, not Toyota, but I'm not enough of a car guy to know if one is more accommodating than the other...

I guess I need to wade into the confusing world of tire sizes and see what I want, then I can be more precise in my questions.

Bicycle tire sizing is SO much more straight forward, choose diameter and width, and go. Aspect ratio crap makes my head spin.

Yeah youíre basically just repositioning the sheet metal. I took a metal mallet to the pinch weld to fold it over. The user @badluck told me to take a 2x4 and put it on top of your tire and thatís a good gauge as to where your gonna hit so Iíd try that before actually hitting anything


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Old 10-18-2023, 04:10 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoncyclesmith View Post
Thanks, appreciate the responses.

"Beating back the firewall" sounds a lot sketchier than it may be, am I just repositioning sheet steel with a hammer, or is it a more refined procedure?

I'm not married to my wheels, no, but if spacers are equally safe and functional, no point in just burning money. Have a buddy that got a new Bronco and he got offset wheels to fit his 35's in, and said with the wheels it was bolt and go, hence my questions now. Obviously, Ford, not Toyota, but I'm not enough of a car guy to know if one is more accommodating than the other...

I guess I need to wade into the confusing world of tire sizes and see what I want, then I can be more precise in my questions.

Bicycle tire sizing is SO much more straight forward, choose diameter and width, and go. Aspect ratio crap makes my head spin.
Wheel spacers are safe when installed with a torque wrench and then rechecked at 50 miles, 500 miles, then every now and then when you have the tire off. Don't buy your wheel spacers off Alibaba and you should be fine. This is one of those parts where if you cheap out you'll get a cheap part.

Tiresize.com has a good tire size calculator/comparison tool that I use frequently.

As for clearancing for the size tire you are looking at it really is just taking a hammer and folding the pinch weld over as a starting point. Find a ditch/rock/jeep to articulate your front suspension on to a high degree and check for clearance issues while turning the wheels lock to lock. Adjust as necessary. Installing a body lift helps, but that's another can of worms.
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Old 10-20-2023, 02:32 PM #7
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Thanks again!

So, having trouble with the "2x4 on top of the tire" idea, not sure if you can clarify at all, or perhaps a pic of what you mean?

BadLuck, appreciate the affirmation on safety too, noted on checking tightness.

Checked out that calc, it may end up being useful once I get closer to making a purchase choice.

Looks like the narrowest 33ish tires get, is 10.5 (at last from my 5 minute crawl of Tiresize.com).

I've seen a few newer 4Runners on the road that seem to have very tall, but skinny tires. Think like big rig or dually pickup sort of presentation. Of course, most of those look really smooth tread wise.

Do all light truck, more aggressive type tires always gain width too, or am I just not looking at the right "class" of tires to get a tall/skinny selection?

Fact of the matter is, I like the look, and don't "mud" so the width isn't helping me much, and my brain says, skinner than 10.5 would help with my inside edges rubbing.
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Old 10-20-2023, 02:49 PM #8
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And, pics just because...
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Trying to sort out wheel offset versus wheel spacer blocks-0-19-jpg  Trying to sort out wheel offset versus wheel spacer blocks-0-20-jpg 
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Old 10-20-2023, 07:31 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoncyclesmith View Post
Thanks again!

So, having trouble with the "2x4 on top of the tire" idea, not sure if you can clarify at all, or perhaps a pic of what you mean?

BadLuck, appreciate the affirmation on safety too, noted on checking tightness.

Checked out that calc, it may end up being useful once I get closer to making a purchase choice.

Looks like the narrowest 33ish tires get, is 10.5 (at last from my 5 minute crawl of Tiresize.com).

I've seen a few newer 4Runners on the road that seem to have very tall, but skinny tires. Think like big rig or dually pickup sort of presentation. Of course, most of those look really smooth tread wise.

Do all light truck, more aggressive type tires always gain width too, or am I just not looking at the right "class" of tires to get a tall/skinny selection?

Fact of the matter is, I like the look, and don't "mud" so the width isn't helping me much, and my brain says, skinner than 10.5 would help with my inside edges rubbing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoncyclesmith View Post
Thanks again!

So, having trouble with the "2x4 on top of the tire" idea, not sure if you can clarify at all, or perhaps a pic of what you mean?

BadLuck, appreciate the affirmation on safety too, noted on checking tightness.

Checked out that calc, it may end up being useful once I get closer to making a purchase choice.

Looks like the narrowest 33ish tires get, is 10.5 (at last from my 5 minute crawl of Tiresize.com).

I've seen a few newer 4Runners on the road that seem to have very tall, but skinny tires. Think like big rig or dually pickup sort of presentation. Of course, most of those look really smooth tread wise.

Do all light truck, more aggressive type tires always gain width too, or am I just not looking at the right "class" of tires to get a tall/skinny selection?

Fact of the matter is, I like the look, and don't "mud" so the width isn't helping me much, and my brain says, skinner than 10.5 would help with my inside edges rubbing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoncyclesmith View Post
Thanks again!

So, having trouble with the "2x4 on top of the tire" idea, not sure if you can clarify at all, or perhaps a pic of what you mean?

BadLuck, appreciate the affirmation on safety too, noted on checking tightness.

Checked out that calc, it may end up being useful once I get closer to making a purchase choice.

Looks like the narrowest 33ish tires get, is 10.5 (at last from my 5 minute crawl of Tiresize.com).

I've seen a few newer 4Runners on the road that seem to have very tall, but skinny tires. Think like big rig or dually pickup sort of presentation. Of course, most of those look really smooth tread wise.

Do all light truck, more aggressive type tires always gain width too, or am I just not looking at the right "class" of tires to get a tall/skinny selection?

Fact of the matter is, I like the look, and don't "mud" so the width isn't helping me much, and my brain says, skinner than 10.5 would help with my inside edges rubbing.

So basically just take a section of 2x4 maybe 3 inches long or so and place it on top of the middle of the tire tread. A 2x4 is 1.5 inches thick I believe so it will simulate having a larger tire and you can see where the wood rubs and that will be a spot your tire will rub. @badluck could probably say it better than I can.

Also you can get 33x10 tires. Iím not sure if your run 16s but my tire size is 255/85/16 which is 33x10 but your only going to find mud tires in that size. I personally highly recommend them as they are taller than the 285/75s but donít weigh as much and make the steering lighter


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Old 10-20-2023, 08:26 PM #10
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I have zero offset 17s Methods w/285s with Dobinsons UCAs and lift, was able to get 3.5 castor, said maxed.. Had to trim very little and remove mud flaps. Have ran the thing on some rough stuff last 2 trips out, and backing down a 40 degree hill uneven terrain, no rub..
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Old 10-22-2023, 08:31 AM #11
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@Mendoncyclesmith try this link Wheel Offset Calculator
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Old 10-22-2023, 01:10 PM #12
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I'm going to grow up and get the right size aftermarket wheels soon, too. I do feel the $125 was fairly well spent and got me through the last 2-3 years while spending the $2000 needed for new wheels and tires on other areas. I was reminded of the extra level of fvckery involved with spacers when I did my rotors and pads yesterday.....
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Old 10-23-2023, 08:29 AM #13
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I was reminded of the extra level of fvckery involved with spacers when I did my rotors and pads yesterday.....
Gotta ask why you chose that moment in the process?

A screwdriver or drift punch in the rotor vents against the caliper eliminates the fuqqery.
Been using screwdriver since last century work smarter not harder
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Old 10-23-2023, 12:22 PM #14
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Gotta ask why you chose that moment in the process?

A screwdriver or drift punch in the rotor vents against the caliper eliminates the fuqqery.
Been using screwdriver since last century work smarter not harder
In a word: Inexperience. The caliper was already off. I stopped to take a picture of my lunacy and I figured it out when I put it back together and on the other side....
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Old 10-23-2023, 12:37 PM #15
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I figured it out when I put it back together and on the other side....
BTDT. You see current price for Patagonia's phasing out MT's to MT2's supposedly longer milage compound.
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