User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-15-2025, 01:57 AM #1
loneshepherd's Avatar
loneshepherd loneshepherd is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Vegas
Posts: 29
loneshepherd is on a distinguished road
loneshepherd loneshepherd is offline
Junior Member
loneshepherd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Vegas
Posts: 29
loneshepherd is on a distinguished road
Shims/Buckets slow to come back up

So... I decided to put my knocking 4runner on hold in favor of finishing up another project thats occupying my garage space.

Long post sorry:

I have a 97 5VZ-FE, it had no compression, I had the cylinder heads done at Vegas Machine for a whopping $1500 and I redid the headgasket with all oem parts, it ran! then it got stuck in limbo at a friends house because I moved. They ghosted me, for over a year. I just got it back and tried to start it, and it has no compression again. I took it apart past the valve covers and found several of the buckets are sticking. They aren't seized, but some take several seconds to pop back into their "up" position.

When I called the Machine Shop they claimed I used bad gas, yet the tank and pump were also new and the gas was fresh. I've seen plenty of cars start and run fine after sitting for a year with the same gas, including my daily driver 3rd gen.

They said they would reevaluate the heads for me, but 1) I really don't want to take them off again and have to buy another head gasket kit as well as just doing all that again would kind of suck. and 2) I am sure they will find something to charge me even more for, which seems ridiculous after the huge price tag I already paid them, but I know it will happen.

Any ideas or methods to.. "clean" or "ungunk" the buckets without removing the cylinder heads? if I could do it without removing the cams would be awesome too. Maybe there's something I can spray them with? I tried MMO and it did nothing. They still come up slowly.

Vid of it turning over.
__________________
---
'00 5VZ 5spd 4x4 E-Locker 174k
'98 5VZ 5spd 4x4 180k "Bob"
'97 5VZ 2runner 250k "2Runner"

Last edited by loneshepherd; 02-15-2025 at 02:07 AM.
loneshepherd is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-16-2025, 09:03 AM #2
rdruss's Avatar
rdruss rdruss is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: illinois
Posts: 1,787
Real Name: Ron
rdruss is a splendid one to behold rdruss is a splendid one to behold rdruss is a splendid one to behold rdruss is a splendid one to behold rdruss is a splendid one to behold rdruss is a splendid one to behold rdruss is a splendid one to behold
rdruss rdruss is offline
Senior Member
rdruss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: illinois
Posts: 1,787
Real Name: Ron
rdruss is a splendid one to behold rdruss is a splendid one to behold rdruss is a splendid one to behold rdruss is a splendid one to behold rdruss is a splendid one to behold rdruss is a splendid one to behold rdruss is a splendid one to behold
Kind of odd. Hopefully the buckets/bores were all lubed before they were reinstalled in the head. It's possible there was some "debris" left in some of the bores from other work the machine shop did. If it were mine I would continue rolling the engine over with starter and pour some oil over all the buckets as doing so hoping they will all "free up". If not then I would pull the cams and inspect each bucket that is causing a problem before pulling the heads. If you find scoring on the problem buckets you will have to deal with that as best you can.
__________________
2003 Limited, V8, AWD. K&N, Dobinson IMS/FJ springs,, SPC UCA, Super Pro bushings in front LCA and in all rear control arms, Michelin 265/65R17 LTX/Defenders, stock wheels with homemade center caps, Stop Tech slotted rotors w/Posi Quiet pads all around, spare tire relocated to inside cargo area.
rdruss is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-18-2025, 12:25 AM #3
loneshepherd's Avatar
loneshepherd loneshepherd is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Vegas
Posts: 29
loneshepherd is on a distinguished road
loneshepherd loneshepherd is offline
Junior Member
loneshepherd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Vegas
Posts: 29
loneshepherd is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdruss View Post
Kind of odd. Hopefully the buckets/bores were all lubed before they were reinstalled in the head. It's possible there was some "debris" left in some of the bores from other work the machine shop did. If it were mine I would continue rolling the engine over with starter and pour some oil over all the buckets as doing so hoping they will all "free up". If not then I would pull the cams and inspect each bucket that is causing a problem before pulling the heads. If you find scoring on the problem buckets you will have to deal with that as best you can.
So I did as you said and spent an hour turning it over and dousing it in MMO and spraying the buckets with WD40 while it was turning over ( wd40 probably isnt the best goto but eh ).

Anyway after ages it started sounding a bit more normal, so I did a compression test and this was the outcome. For the life of me I can't get the buckets to spring back up any faster on #4. They take like 4-8 seconds.

Should I reassemble and start it like this? kind of wondering if the oil + heat with the engine running might take care of #4...

Shims/Buckets slow to come back up-compressiontest-png
__________________
---
'00 5VZ 5spd 4x4 E-Locker 174k
'98 5VZ 5spd 4x4 180k "Bob"
'97 5VZ 2runner 250k "2Runner"

Last edited by loneshepherd; 02-18-2025 at 12:31 AM.
loneshepherd is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-18-2025, 01:30 PM #4
Pyral's Avatar
Pyral Pyral is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 674
Real Name: N/A
Pyral has a spectacular aura about Pyral has a spectacular aura about Pyral has a spectacular aura about
Pyral Pyral is offline
Member
Pyral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 674
Real Name: N/A
Pyral has a spectacular aura about Pyral has a spectacular aura about Pyral has a spectacular aura about
You should definitely not reassemble, those valves springs need to be strong enough to snap the valve closed thousands of times a minute without floating, so they should be more than strong enough to overcome friction even without lubrication.

To me it sounds like a slightly bent valve stem, 0 psi means a valve isn't closing, all the valves were equally dry when you started so why is only 1 cylinder having 0 PSI. Or a valve keeper isn't installed correctly, or you have a weak valve spring. I've replaced a shim bucket before, this was never a problem.

If the shim buckets aren't coming up fast, it is possible for the shim to be swiped right out of the bucket by the cam lobe.

The variation in PSI in all the cylinders is also concerning, unless you're breaking in new rings the PSI variation shouldn't be more than 15 psi between the highest and lowest cylinder.
__________________
1998 4runner 2.7 manual
Pyral is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-18-2025, 02:02 PM #5
brillo_76's Avatar
brillo_76 brillo_76 is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,323
Real Name: Jon
brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute
brillo_76 brillo_76 is offline
Elite Member
brillo_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,323
Real Name: Jon
brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute brillo_76 has a reputation beyond repute
Can you take the spark plug out of number for and get a inspection camera down the spark plug to look the the valves , head and cylinder wall?
__________________
7 3rd gens listed in the build thread (2 are parts mobiles)
Build Thread: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...os-builds.html
Brillo's Bucket Fluid Ex changer: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...ml#post3358086
Sparks Plugs Wire and Coil Information: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...on-5vz-fe.html
brillo_76 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-24-2025, 10:04 PM #6
loneshepherd's Avatar
loneshepherd loneshepherd is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Vegas
Posts: 29
loneshepherd is on a distinguished road
loneshepherd loneshepherd is offline
Junior Member
loneshepherd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Vegas
Posts: 29
loneshepherd is on a distinguished road
Sadly no dice, I tried with my boroscope but its a cheapy that doesn't have the cool twist functions, and no mirror attachment. All I could get were some not great shots of the piston head, and some springs. Probably not worth posting but Ill show some anyway. After sitting a for a few more days, I turned it over again and all the other cylinders are still fine ( didnt get restuck ) and the culprit is coming back up WAY faster but still extremely slow. Like 5-6? seconds vs the 15 or so it was before. I'm unsure what to think about the variation in the PSI. I did douse everything in mmo before that compression test and its very possible some of it got into the cylinders, so I'm not sure. Tons of buckets were sticking at first, several of the cylinders had zero compression when I tried to start it the first time. Compare the first video to the one below.

Current video of the bucket

Edit: Its currenly taking about 3/4th sec to come back up now. Obviously this is still way too slow, as Pyral said above they need to open and close thousands of times per minute. So its progress but at the same time its not fixing the root of the problem. I am not good with cylinder heads which is why I paid that machine shop to refurbish the head. Can the spring be replaced by removing the cams or does the entire head have to come off?

Also redid compression on #5 and it came out to 170 today, the others were the same.

Shims/Buckets slow to come back up-screenshot_20250224_175038-jpg
Shims/Buckets slow to come back up-screenshot_20250224_174222-png
Shims/Buckets slow to come back up-screenshot_20250224_175007-jpg
Shims/Buckets slow to come back up-screenshot_20250224_175732-jpg
__________________
---
'00 5VZ 5spd 4x4 E-Locker 174k
'98 5VZ 5spd 4x4 180k "Bob"
'97 5VZ 2runner 250k "2Runner"

Last edited by loneshepherd; 02-25-2025 at 01:43 AM.
loneshepherd is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-25-2025, 07:00 AM #7
subzjc subzjc is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: knoxville
Posts: 29
subzjc is on a distinguished road
subzjc subzjc is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: knoxville
Posts: 29
subzjc is on a distinguished road
I am not convinced it is the spring or the bucket.

What if the valve and the valve guide are the problems?

You may as well pull your timing belt and get the cams out,

that will allow you to pull the bucket for inspection and then manually

work the valve. Don't forget to lockout the spring-loaded cam with a bolt.
subzjc is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Tags
back , buckets , gas , heads , machine

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Slow forum. Is it ever going to get back to normal? Racehoss Off Topic 25 02-03-2019 12:01 PM
1990 4Runner back windows very slow. Du6 Classic T4Rs 5 07-15-2013 03:16 PM
Wanted-Headlight Buckets-96' Lunatick Classifieds - buy & sell (no commercial ads please) 0 03-05-2011 01:13 PM
Highlander 2nd Row Buckets into the T4R? Jaylyons1 5th gen T4Rs 2 01-02-2011 10:03 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:33 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2020