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Old 08-04-2011, 09:55 AM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian2sun View Post
I didn't use any shims on my pads with my 231 and I don't have any sounds coming from them. Here's a shot of the retainer spring..
Thanks. That's how my retainer spring is too.
I see shims in that pic, the blue stuff between the pad and the caliper pistons. Perhaps they are built onto those pads? I'm going to play around with different brands of pads, currently using Prostop Platinum from Pepboys.
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:30 AM #17
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Here's a question about the reman calipers at autozone or advance. Are reman calipers OEM calipers that have been remanufactured, or are they unknown brand? They have reman caliper of greatly varying price, so I am curious what the difference really is.
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Old 08-04-2011, 11:21 AM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelsonmd View Post
Here's a question about the reman calipers at autozone or advance. Are reman calipers OEM calipers that have been remanufactured, or are they unknown brand? They have reman caliper of greatly varying price, so I am curious what the difference really is.
Every physical clue would suggest that the NAPA calipers are OEM castings that have been refinished and refurbished with new internal parts. The casting marks as far as the "13WL" and other markings look identical to the OEM calipers that I have seen.

I would assume that they are replacing the Pistons, Seals, Dust Boots, Hardware, etc. A caliper overhual kit from TOYOTA is about $30 and the pistons are $17 each. So if you did an overhaul yourself you'd be looking at $98 in parts (you'd need 4 pistons) to reman the caliper yourself, plus paint. When you consider that they are buying back your old caliper for $55, and they throw their parts & labor into it at say, 75% of retail, their COST is about $129 per caliper, then they sell it to you for $155. You can see how it ends up being profitable for them to reman factory cores.

With their ability to buy in volume, I would imagine it's not hard for them to get their hands on hundreds or even thousands of used factory cores from junkyards across the country to use in building a base inventory of remans.

From Napa's Brake Parts Website:

Quote:
All Calipers Include 100% New Dust Boots, OE-Style Seals, Bleeder Valves & Application-Specific Mounting Hardware
All Rubber Parts Are Coated w/ A Liquid Preservative
Precise Lubrication On Critical Areas Of Each Caliper
Every Caliper Is 100% Pressure Tested To Guarantee Proper Function Of The Caliper
All Castings Are Heat Cleaned & Shot Blasted Inside & Out
I am not sure about Autozone or Advance because I have not seen their calipers.
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My Write ups: T-Case Leak? - 231mm TBU - Rear Axle Seals - Trans. Cooler Install - Suped Up Air Comp - Big 3

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Old 08-04-2011, 11:33 AM #19
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My setup from AutoZone was $343.43 after the core refunds. That also included large bottle of brake Fluid, a can of brake cleaner and an extra pack of springs and clips.

AutoZone was a bit less than NAPA plus - I got teh "Bling"

The 13WL stamp was located in the same place on mine as 4-Ripcords NAPA calipers. The AutoZone calipers appeared to be OEM castings.


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Old 08-04-2011, 11:43 AM #20
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Thanks for the quick replies guys. I think I am going to pick up some calipers from advance (after calling to make sure they are 13WL) as I can get some great coupons online from them.

Before too long I am going to have a complete front end replacement project to do. Here's what I have so far sitting int he garage waiting to go on:

Inner TRE's
Outer TRE's
LBJ's
UCA/UBJ/Knuckle assemblies (no rust)

Coming...
Tundra brakes and rotors

If only I could find some cheap, non-rusty LCA's and CV's, I would truly have a full front end replacement.
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Old 08-04-2011, 11:46 AM #21
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13we vs 13wl

Has anyone really found a big difference between the 13WE and the 13WL calipers? Is the 199mm (13WE) brakes that much smaller? Can you notice that much of a difference when braking?

And does the parts store really check on the size of the calipers your turning in for a core charge? like if i turn in some 13we for 13wl are they going to know? or will they take my stock runner calipers as core?
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Old 08-04-2011, 11:52 AM #22
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Maybe someone with the 13WE's can post some similar measurements... Length, width, size of the pad cavity, etc, for comparison.

I know the main difference is that the 13WL's are longer overall. My guess is that the 13WE's will have a smaller pad cavity, using pads more similar in size to the stock 4Runner pads. I would also bet that the pistons are smaller in diameter. Again, just guesses because I have not held a 13WE nor have I seen it's specs posted.

I found this info:

Quote:
The mechanical difference boils down to the updated caliper being much larger to hold a larger pad....The early style pad (in the 13WE caliper) will be less than 5” (4-11/16” or 199.5 mm) in width; the (pads in the) later update (13WL caliper) is more than 5” (5-5/16” or 231 mm). Both of the calipers have the same dimensions on the mounting bosses......The update will replace the calipers with a larger set that will provide additional swept area and fluid capacity for heavy-duty use.
In this article, which EVERYONE should read. LOTS of good info on caliper design in general >>> http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/arti...r_upgrade.aspx

So, that's something thats news to me.... The 199mm or 231mm designation is referring to the size of the pads and has nothing to do with the calipers. Hmmmmmmmmmm.
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My Write ups: T-Case Leak? - 231mm TBU - Rear Axle Seals - Trans. Cooler Install - Suped Up Air Comp - Big 3

Last edited by BigFishAllDay; 08-04-2011 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:00 PM #23
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Great write up! I wish something like this was around when I did mine! Luckily, this is really a pretty easy swap to do, but having all this information at one's fingertips is great!

To stop the brakeline from flowing (and dumping tons of brake fluid all over) I used a similar method that BigFishAllDay used. However, instead of a cloth I grabbed a plastic bag, cut a piece out of it and placed it on the end of the brake line. Then I used a rubberband to hold the piece of plastic bag to the brake line, and this stopped all dripping and possible airflow.

I also didn't have access to a dremel so I used tin-snips to remove the unneeded dustshield pieces.

Again, GREAT write-up and information on this awesome mod! One of the best mods someone can do to our 4Runners to improve braking performance.
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:19 PM #24
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Another question, the listing for OEM front pads (0446535290), is that for both sides, or is that for 1 side? Just trying to price this out.
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:46 PM #25
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I just bought some OEM pads, and the box included 4 pads... 2 for each side... in other words, a full set.

HOWEVER, that does not include the shims and they want another $40 for the shims.
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My Write ups: T-Case Leak? - 231mm TBU - Rear Axle Seals - Trans. Cooler Install - Suped Up Air Comp - Big 3
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Old 08-04-2011, 01:13 PM #26
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The shims were attached to the backs of the AutoZone pads.
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The Rest:I.S.R. Mod upgraded to an Injen intake, Borla XR-1 muffler, ARB Bumper, Shrockwork's Rock Sliders, CBI Rear Bumper and a pair of Hellas. Plus a whole bunch of other accessories.Topped off with Zaino's Polish.
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Old 08-04-2011, 01:26 PM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALBPM View Post
The shims were attached to the backs of the AutoZone pads.
True, and they are included with the NAPA pads as well. There's just one BIG, HUGE PROBLEM w/the NAPA's Super Premium pads, and I would assume the AutoZone pads as well....

There are only two benefits to going w/the bigger tundra caliper... 1) fluid capacity, 2) Larger brake pad, which results in a larger swept area on the rotor.

Take a look at your pads. You MIGHT notice that on the AZ pads, they have a beveled edge on both sides of the pad material. If so, this beveled edge significantly reduces the amount of contact the pad is making with the rotor. As the pad wears, more and more of the pad comes into contact with the rotor.

This ends up completely negating the 2nd benefit of going with the bigger caliper....at least until the pads have worn down to where the beveled edge is gone, and by then they are almost worn out.

TOYOTA pads are designed in such a way that the entire pad surface is contacting the rotor from Day 1. They end up costing more once you fork out for the shims, but I'm not about to half ass it after having dropped so much coin on these brakes. I want every last ounce of performance increase and I want it from the date of installation.

Actually, in the pic you posted, your pads look good ALBPM. They don't look like they have that beveled edge on the pad material.
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My Write ups: T-Case Leak? - 231mm TBU - Rear Axle Seals - Trans. Cooler Install - Suped Up Air Comp - Big 3

Last edited by BigFishAllDay; 08-04-2011 at 02:09 PM. Reason: Edits in BOLD
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Old 08-04-2011, 01:50 PM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFishAllDay View Post
True, and they are included with the NAPA pads as well. There's just one BIG, HUGE PROBLEM w/the NAPA pads, and I would assume the AutoZone pads as well....

There are only two benefits to going w/the bigger tundra caliper... 1) fluid capacity, 2) Larger brake pad, which results in a larger swept area on the rotor.

Take a look at your pads. You'll probably notice that on the AZ pads, they have a beveled edge on both sides of the pad material. This beveled edge significantly reduces the amount of contact the pad is making with the rotor. As the pad wears, more and more of the pad comes into contact with the rotor.

This ends up completely negating the 2nd benefit of going with the bigger caliper....at least until the pads have worn down to where the beveled edge is gone, and by then they are almost worn out.

TOYOTA pads are designed in such a way that the entire pad surface is contacting the rotor from Day 1. They end up costing more once you fork out for the shims, but I'm not about to half ass it after having dropped so much coin on these brakes. I want every last ounce of performance increase and I want it from the date of installation.
The ceramic pads I got from Napa are like the OEMs and they were ~$45 for the set. I noticed some of the other pads they sold were like the ones you mentioned.

I mixed and matched my stuff. Bought the calipers from Autozone and the rotors and pads from Napa to get the best price. I paid about $320 total for the upgrade. I believe my Autozone calipers are OEM castings too.
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Old 08-04-2011, 02:01 PM #29
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Quote:
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The ceramic pads I got from Napa are like the OEMs and they were ~$45 for the set. I noticed some of the other pads they sold were like the ones you mentioned.

I mixed and matched my stuff. Bought the calipers from Autozone and the rotors and pads from Napa to get the best price. I paid about $320 total for the upgrade. I believe my Autozone calipers are OEM castings too.
Good the hear. Are you sure though? Because in the pic you posted earlier it looks like the pads have that beveled outside edge? Is that a different truck?

Do you remember which version of pads you got from NAPA? Because I'm not dead set on using Toyota pads, but I am dead set on getting a pad that employs it's full surface area for friction from Day 1.

If I can get a decent set of pads without the beveled edge, that include shims, I'll go return these 'Yota pads.
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2003 Tacoma SR5 S/C'd V6 5-spd 4wd (< Click for Build) ....boost, armor, lockers, gears, etc....
2008 Sport Ed V6 Auto 4WD (< Click for Build) ....the Grocery Getter OEM+ build....
My Write ups: T-Case Leak? - 231mm TBU - Rear Axle Seals - Trans. Cooler Install - Suped Up Air Comp - Big 3

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Old 08-04-2011, 02:36 PM #30
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I never found any brake pad kit with the shims in doing this in 2009.

Here is the part# I needed for the shims: 04945-0C030. I want to say around $40 for them to fit a 2006 pair of calipers and pads. I believe there is a different part # for the earlier shims previous to October, 2004.
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