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Old 08-04-2011, 02:39 PM #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFishAllDay View Post
True, and they are included with the NAPA pads as well. There's just one BIG, HUGE PROBLEM w/the NAPA's Super Premium pads, and I would assume the AutoZone pads as well....

There are only two benefits to going w/the bigger tundra caliper... 1) fluid capacity, 2) Larger brake pad, which results in a larger swept area on the rotor.

Take a look at your pads. You MIGHT notice that on the AZ pads, they have a beveled edge on both sides of the pad material. If so, this beveled edge significantly reduces the amount of contact the pad is making with the rotor. As the pad wears, more and more of the pad comes into contact with the rotor.

This ends up completely negating the 2nd benefit of going with the bigger caliper....at least until the pads have worn down to where the beveled edge is gone, and by then they are almost worn out.

TOYOTA pads are designed in such a way that the entire pad surface is contacting the rotor from Day 1. They end up costing more once you fork out for the shims, but I'm not about to half ass it after having dropped so much coin on these brakes. I want every last ounce of performance increase and I want it from the date of installation.

Actually, in the pic you posted, your pads look good ALBPM. They don't look like they have that beveled edge on the pad material.


Here is the part I got from AutoZone : if there was a bevel on mine it was not noticeable.

Duralast Gold Cmax/Brake Pads - Front
For your 2006 Toyota Truck Tundra 4WD 4.7L EFI DOHC 8cyl
Part Number: DGC976

Features & Benefits

Maximum ceramic brake pads have a friction material that is formulated for ultra quiet stopping performance with low dust and a longer life as well as shorter stopping distances which makes Duralast Gold Cmax the brake pad of choice
•Hardware kits included where applicable for one stop shopping with everything included in the box for a complete brake job
•Rigid steel inner shim is a fundamental part of every brake pad and when combined with the nitrile rubber shim layer the vibration and noise is virtually eliminated
•Powder coated steel backing plate prevents corrosion and includes an acrylic adhesive layer to aid in vibration and noise suppression
•Slotted and chamfered friction blocks match the original equipment design

Part Number: DGC976
Weight: 4.85 lbs
Warranty: Limited Lifetime
Notes: Premium ceramicUltra Quiet with patented nitrile rubber shim. Disc hardware included.
Brake Component Height: 3.05 in.
Brake Component Length: 5.3 in.
Brake Component Width: 0.22 in.
Brake Pad Anti-Squeal Shims Included: Yes
Brake Pad Type: Ceramic
Brake Pad/Shoe Material: Ceramic
Built-In Wear Sensors: Yes
Color / Finish: Black
Component Hardware Included: Yes
Package Contents: 1 Set Of Disc Brake Pads
Performance Item: OEM Standard Part
Wear Sensor Type: Mechanical
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Suspension:Front:Toytec Coilovers w/ 5100 Bilsteins/RevTek Diff Drop, 231mm Tundra Brake upgrade. Rear: ToyTec Superflex coils/5100 Bilsteins.
Tires: 285/75/16 Bridgestone REVO 2's
The Rest:I.S.R. Mod upgraded to an Injen intake, Borla XR-1 muffler, ARB Bumper, Shrockwork's Rock Sliders, CBI Rear Bumper and a pair of Hellas. Plus a whole bunch of other accessories.Topped off with Zaino's Polish.
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:05 PM #32
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BigFish, Here's some additional Info you can add into your original posts (since no one wants to scroll all the way to the bottom for this golden information...)

I have found that shops don't distinguish between 13WL and 13WG, no one really seems to know the difference, and lots of people have gotten them mixed up. Well after some extensive googling (at work), I figured it out. It is all about the brake line angle.

13WL

Ignore the fact that he used a banjo fitting, not an inline.

13WG


13WE for reference (199mm)


Feel free to plagerize.

Bottom line is, 13WL is needed for hard line fitting, but if you replace the hard line with flex line, you could use either.
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:13 PM #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelsonmd View Post
BigFish, Here's some additional Info you can add into your original posts (since no one wants to scroll all the way to the bottom for this golden information...)

I have found that shops don't distinguish between 13WL and 13WG, no one really seems to know the difference, and lots of people have gotten them mixed up. Well after some extensive googling (at work), I figured it out. It is all about the brake line angle.
That is definitely interesting. Thanks for adding that to the thread. I'll get that in somewhere near the beginning as a heads up so people don't get the WG by mistake.

The WG was offered to me when I purchased my calipers. I wondered what it was all about, but when she told me it was $226, I forgot about that pretty quickly and said give me the WL.
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:17 PM #34
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Yeah, I guess the WG's were the common caliper after 2006. The WL's were the replacement for the TSB on the 01-06 taco's (or was it tundras). That may be why they cost more, they're newer
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:18 PM #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFishAllDay View Post
Good the hear. Are you sure though? Because in the pic you posted earlier it looks like the pads have that beveled outside edge? Is that a different truck?

Do you remember which version of pads you got from NAPA? Because I'm not dead set on using Toyota pads, but I am dead set on getting a pad that employs it's full surface area for friction from Day 1.

If I can get a decent set of pads without the beveled edge, that include shims, I'll go return these 'Yota pads.
Yeah, the pic I posted isn't my truck, I just found it on the web to show the retainer spring. My pads were Napa brand TruStops (I think). They said "ceramic" on the box and were ~$45. The Napa dude recommended them because they're cheap and just like the OEMs he said.
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:38 PM #36
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Has anyone recorded a stop test before and after the upgrade?

I am thinking it would be great to see some stopping times from 60-0. BigFish, perhaps you could use your other 4Runner as a reference for stock times.

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Old 08-04-2011, 03:48 PM #37
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Brian2sun, thanks for clarifying.

brianemc2_42,

A test like that would have to be done before & after on the same vehicle.

I thought about doing it on mine but I didn't want to go out and abuse the factory brake setup on my '01. It's only got 3000 miles on it, and my '97 needs brakes too, so the stock stuff off the '01 is going on the '97.

I could put the new brakes on my '97, then compare it to the '01, but it woudln't be apples to apples with the bigger tires/added weight on the '01.

If someone is sitting on stock suspension w/no armor and 231's, we could have them do a test stop, then compare to what someone else gets w/stock, but even then it will be totally inaccurate because of differences in tires, road surface, ambient temps, etc, etc. To get valid test results it would have to be same truck, same day, same road.

I'm satisfied w/the testimonials of hundreds of satisfied owners who say that brake feel has improved significantly, warping is eliminated, and braking strengh is increased.
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2003 Tacoma SR5 S/C'd V6 5-spd 4wd (< Click for Build) ....boost, armor, lockers, gears, etc....
2008 Sport Ed V6 Auto 4WD (< Click for Build) ....the Grocery Getter OEM+ build....
My Write ups: T-Case Leak? - 231mm TBU - Rear Axle Seals - Trans. Cooler Install - Suped Up Air Comp - Big 3
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:49 PM #38
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Also a Bed-In process for the new Pads would be a good thing for this Thread...
This is what 4-Ripcord and I did after upgrading our Runners.

Bedding in Advantages:

1.Gradually heat treats the rotor and eliminates any thermal shock in the rotor.
2.Burn off volatiles and moisture from the resin that is near pad surface.
This will eliminate “green fade.”
3.Establish a layer of transfer film about a few microns thick on the rotor surface.
Shearing of the film during friction is an effective source of friction force.
Otherwise, when using a freshly ground rotor without the transfer film, the main
friction force would come from cutting, plowing, or scoring the asperities on the
rotor surface. This leads to inconsistent braking effectiveness.
4.Mate the two surfaces to a near perfect geometrical match, so that the contact
area is high, and therefore the friction force is increased.
5.The performance of a fresh rotor/fresh pad system would be inconsistent. This
is due to ever-changing structures and properties of the two mating materials.
Bed-in of pads and rotor will form a stable transfer film.
6.If bedding in procedure is not applied, a stable transfer film may not be
established for a long time. In other words, the rotor surface would have to be
constantly regenerating a film that is not quite stable for a long time. This
effect would reduce the performance and increase the wear.


Bed In Procedure:

From a speed of about 60mph, gently apply the brakes to slow the car down to about
45mph, then accelerate back up to 60mph and repeat. Do this about four or five times
to bring the brakes up to operating temperature. This prevents you from thermally
shocking the rotors and pads in the next steps.

Make a series of eight near-stops from 60 to about 10 mph. Do it HARD by pressing
on the brakes firmly, just shy of locking the wheels or engaging ABS. At the end
of each slowdown, immediately accelerate back to 60mph. DO NOT COME TO A COMPLETE STOP!
(Note: With less aggressive street pads and/or stock brake calipers, you may need to
do this fewer times. If your pedal gets soft or you feel the brakes going away, then
you've done enough. Proceed to the next step.)

During this process, you must not come to a complete stop because you will transfer
(imprint) pad material onto the hot rotors, which can lead to vibration, uneven braking,
and could even ruin the rotors.

Depending on the pads you are using, the brakes may begin to fade slightly after the
7th or 8th near-stop. This fade will stabilize, but not completely go away until the brakes
have fully cooled. A bad smell from the brakes, and even some smoke, is normal.

After the 8th near-stop, accelerate back up to speed and drive around for as long as
possible without using the brakes. The brakes will need at least 10 minutes to cool down.
Obviously, it's OK to use the brakes to avoid an accident, but try to minimize their use
until they have cooled.

After the break-in cycle, there should be a blue tint and a light gray film on the rotor face.
The blue tint tells you the rotor has reached break-in temperature and the gray film is pad material
starting to transfer onto the rotor face. This is what you are looking for. The best braking occurs
when there is an even layer of of pad material deposited across the face of the rotors. This minimizes
squealing, increases braking torque, and maximizes pad and rotor life.

After the first break in cycle shown above, the brakes may still not be fully broken in.
A second bed-in cycle, AFTER the brakes have cooled down fully from the first cycle,
may be necessary before the brakes really start to perform well. If you've just installed
a big brake kit, the pedal travel may not feel as firm as you expected. After the second cycle,
the pedal will become noticeably firmer.
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Suspension:Front:Toytec Coilovers w/ 5100 Bilsteins/RevTek Diff Drop, 231mm Tundra Brake upgrade. Rear: ToyTec Superflex coils/5100 Bilsteins.
Tires: 285/75/16 Bridgestone REVO 2's
The Rest:I.S.R. Mod upgraded to an Injen intake, Borla XR-1 muffler, ARB Bumper, Shrockwork's Rock Sliders, CBI Rear Bumper and a pair of Hellas. Plus a whole bunch of other accessories.Topped off with Zaino's Polish.

Last edited by ALBPM; 12-30-2020 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:40 PM #39
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ALBPM, would it be ok with you if I moved that to the front of the thread and into one of my 3 initial posts. I will give you due credit, of course.
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2003 Tacoma SR5 S/C'd V6 5-spd 4wd (< Click for Build) ....boost, armor, lockers, gears, etc....
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Old 08-05-2011, 12:19 AM #40
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No problem!!!
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Suspension:Front:Toytec Coilovers w/ 5100 Bilsteins/RevTek Diff Drop, 231mm Tundra Brake upgrade. Rear: ToyTec Superflex coils/5100 Bilsteins.
Tires: 285/75/16 Bridgestone REVO 2's
The Rest:I.S.R. Mod upgraded to an Injen intake, Borla XR-1 muffler, ARB Bumper, Shrockwork's Rock Sliders, CBI Rear Bumper and a pair of Hellas. Plus a whole bunch of other accessories.Topped off with Zaino's Polish.
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Old 08-05-2011, 01:55 AM #41
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Thanks man. I just got the thread finished up and cleaned up. I'll test fit the spare tommorrow and get the contributions from you and NelsonMD added and then she's all done. One for the books

If anyone has any suggestions for improvement, let me know.

BTW, the other side took me about an hour today. It goes much faster once you've got some experience with it. I could do this job in 2-3 hours now... EASY!
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My Write ups: T-Case Leak? - 231mm TBU - Rear Axle Seals - Trans. Cooler Install - Suped Up Air Comp - Big 3
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Old 08-05-2011, 06:30 PM #42
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Got NelsonMD and ALBPM's stuff added to the original posts.

ONE LAST THING...

If ANYONE knows of a type/brand/style of wheel that will clear the 13WL Calipers either WITH or WITHOUT wheel spacers, will you please reply in the thread so I can add it to the list of wheels that work w/the upgrade? Please post whether or not spacers were required, and the type of wheel you have verified will work.

Thanks in advance, and I'll make sure to give you credit for your contributions to the thread.
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2003 Tacoma SR5 S/C'd V6 5-spd 4wd (< Click for Build) ....boost, armor, lockers, gears, etc....
2008 Sport Ed V6 Auto 4WD (< Click for Build) ....the Grocery Getter OEM+ build....
My Write ups: T-Case Leak? - 231mm TBU - Rear Axle Seals - Trans. Cooler Install - Suped Up Air Comp - Big 3
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Old 08-05-2011, 07:01 PM #43
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I know my 16x7 Cragar Soft 8s w/ 4" BSing won't clear the 231s without wheel spacers (they didn't even clear my stock calipers). In doing research for aluminum wheels, people say the ProComp Xtreme Alloys #8069-6883 (w/ 4" BSing) clear the 231s, but I can't verify that personally. I've read enough posts though that I would buy them and not worry about it if only they were the right BSing for 35s (and if they weren't on national backorder all the time).
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Old 08-06-2011, 12:52 AM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian2sun View Post
In doing research for aluminum wheels, people say the ProComp Xtreme Alloys #8069-6883 (w/ 4" BSing) clear the 231s, but I can't verify that personally. I've read enough posts though that I would buy them and not worry about it if only they were the right BSing for 35s (and if they weren't on national backorder all the time).
Those are the wheels I'm running on my rig dude. LMAO.

And you are correct, they do clear without spacers.
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2001 SR5 Sport Ed. S/C'd V6 Auto 4wd (< Click for Build) ....everything but a kitchen sink (it's on the "to do" list)....
2003 Tacoma SR5 S/C'd V6 5-spd 4wd (< Click for Build) ....boost, armor, lockers, gears, etc....
2008 Sport Ed V6 Auto 4WD (< Click for Build) ....the Grocery Getter OEM+ build....
My Write ups: T-Case Leak? - 231mm TBU - Rear Axle Seals - Trans. Cooler Install - Suped Up Air Comp - Big 3
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:49 PM #45
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Smile

Bigfish, you do the most detailed and well organized write-ups I've ever seen man! Great work!

You know 2 years ago, I had to redo my front brakes. I bought new Calipers, and rotors, and pads....wanted to do the Tundra swap, but wasn't confident enough to do them with the info that was out there at the time......With this write-up, I'd jump at a chance to do it!

My next jobs are T-belt and transmission cooler.....did you do any write-ups for those???
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