I'm not going to rehash the back and forth we went over this before on, because I just don't feel like wasting that much time.

The 2UZ-FE is a decent V8 for it's time and when it was developed. The 1UR-FE & 3UR-FE engines are better mainly because they are a new engine design compared to the "traditional" cast iron block/aluminum head 2UZ-FE. I'm not even going to get into the fact how you blatantly ignored the torque curve, gearing, and real world power differences for an out of context numbers comparison.

The reason they killed the V8 4Runner besides the cost of producing it vs. profit, the gas & economic crunch making thirsty SUVs look a bit silly, and the fact that a Limited V8 4Runner basically outright competed with the GX470; was because Toyota has been progressively going towards smaller displacement engines and a larger focus on emissions and mpgs than power and performance.

The 5th gen V8 does exist, it's called the GX460. As for maintenance costs, we've gone over this many times before and maintenance costs in the long run end up being similar. After about 150~200k the costs end up evening out with a chain motor, assuming your chain motor doesn't suffer any issues before hand such as a headgasket, leaking timing cover, ect. Again, it's a minor quibble in grand scheme of things.

Bottom like, for most people the 1GR-FE pumps out plenty of power and fun; the 2UZ-FE is just a bit better than the 1GR-FE in power band and fun factor. But it's not something to lose sleep over; both are great engines and will serve you reliably for a long time, a lot of people just like that extra little grunt in the low end that the 2UZ-FE offers. Something else to consider is that the 2UZ-FE doesn't have as big a drop in power before regearing when you start adding weight and mods like the 1GR-FE does, this tends to be a big draw for many members as it means they can run larger tires, suspension, and bumpers before feeling a noticeably large "drop in power" that needs to be correct by regearing.

Great example of not getting the facts correct, sorry. The V6 has multiple issues the V8 never will including head gaskets and warpage. The V8 makes 271hp and 315 ft/lbs torque vs. 236hp and 266 torque. The mileage is about the same. I bought 3 4Runners with the V8, keeping them forever. A 2003 I lifted with 33's and 2 2008 for DD's.

haha, gotta love flashbacks on Internet forums.

Blackworks, I like you man. You often have good things to add to threads, and I have seen you help people out.

Really? Where did you get that from? Toyota's chief engineer? Last I checked, they still make the 5.7 which is a HUGE gas hog, the 4.6 ain't that efficient either. If Toyota really was going towards efficiency, they'd be bringing their D4D diesels here, not downsizing their truck engines by 0.1 liters.

The 4.7 was killed because customers weren't buying it. It was mediocre. Period.

My neighbor just bought a GX460. He got a lightly equipped one and it was $53k. So, no, the 5th gen V8 is not the GX460. Not by 10 grand.

You conveniently ignore the higher up front purchase cost of a V8.

There you go, you made my point for me. Toyota killed the 4.7 because it was only "just a bit better" that most educated buyers passed on it.

Again, where do you get this from? I am running 34.1 inch tires and ~500 lbs of armor in my V6 with no noticeable loss of power or needing to regear. Hell, my mpg is even largely unchanged. Not sure where you get some of your data points from.

Awesome, good for you. Want a cookie?

-The 3UR-FE exists still because Toyota is still trying to stay in the Full-Sized Truck Segment and the LC200. It's one of the few "Gas Hog" engines Toyota has left in their line up besides the 1UR-FE. You also need to realize that the 1UR-FE has almost nothing in common with the 2UZ-FE, it's a Lexus Derived engine much in the way the 3UR-FE is. Also I actually did talk to a couple engineers from Toyota, their game plan is as they have been doing lately; downsizing engines and moving towards forced induction (the Lexus NX is their first dip into this; it is not their last.) The diesels are not coming any time soon to the US because of the US's emissions regulations regarding diesels, Toyota has made statements on this at various shows and platforms. They're thinking is that to make a diesel meet US requirements it would add say 5k to the cost of a Tacoma and they don't think they can sell that to a customer. Now if the GMC Canyon/Chevy Colorado with their little diesels take off like hot cakes, I wouldn't doubt Toyota would change their tune. But the diesel dream is a dead end for the US at the moment (trust me, I would like a 1VD-FTV 4.5L V8 Common Rail Twin VGT engine.) If anything you'll continue to see Toyota downsize their engines, switching over to D4-S (much like the new 2GR-FKS the new Tacoma sports which is again a Lexus derived engine) and in the future forced induction.

-Plenty of customers bought the V8 and plenty more bought the V6. It was a premium engine option, they didn't expect to sell as many as the V6 to begin with (also it didn't help that the distinctions between 4th gen trims were almost non-existent) the V8 was dropped for a lot of factors than just sales. Like I said you also need to look at the time the vehicle was sold in as well as the encroaching emissions and mileage requirements being brought into play (it's what killed the GX460 for the most part, you know the one with the much better 1UR-FE engine? they replaced it with the new LX crossover with... a smaller, more fuel efficient engine) Keep in mind my '04 brand new was barely $38k out the door in '04~'05, yet a SR5 lightly loaded is hitting that level and a decked out Limited or Trail is easily hitting $40k and yet people are still buying them despite them being far overpriced.

-The GX460 is the Landcruiser Prado150, it has the exact same J150 platform that underpins the 5th gen (because all 4th & 5th gen 4Runners, GX460 & GX470, FJ Cruiser, and 2nd Gen Tacoma were built off the Prado 120 or 150 platform.) You can literally unbolt the body and swap them, the mounts line up perfectly. It's just dressed up in Lexus trim and badges for 10k more and a bit more luxury. You can say it's different than a 5th gen (much like the LandCruiser 100/200 are "different" than the LX570/LX470 which, if you've ever had the opportunity to look at both from every angle and on a lift you'll see its about 95% the same vehicle minus different badges and suspension.) But the reality is that both the 5th Gen and GX460 share the same bones, there's no reason at all Toyota couldn't just ship a 5th gen with a GX460 Drivetrain because that's EXACTLY what they did with the 4th Gen 4Runners and the GX470 since they were built on the same J120 platform from the Prado 120. The commonality in frame and drivetrain components is something like 90% between the GX470 & 4th Gen. Whether or not it's worth the 10K premium is up to the consumer, they seem happy to plunk down a higher premium for a 5th gen than a 4th gen when they were new, so why not charge that much? By the way, that price gap was also what ended up axing the 4th Gen V8, you could get a "Premium" Limited 4Runner with a V8 for about 10k less than the GX470 which as supposed to be Lexus's "Baby Landcruiser" for the Lexus crown. Why wouldn't you buy almost the same vehicle for 10k less if you could?

-Depends where you live and what you're looking for, there's a premium for a V8 these days yes. But then again when I bought my 4Runner new the premium was barely 3k difference for a V6 and these days that gap seems to vary a lot depending on area and availability because of the "Toyota Tax" many Toyotas get when they are sold used. It's the same reason it's almost better to buy a new 5th gen than a used one right now since the price gap is so small comparatively. Aside from a Timing belt for an additional $700-ish with water pump at 90~100k; you are spending the same amount of money in terms of maintenance on the 1GR-FE. By the time the 1GR-FE hits 200k, you should be checking timing chain tension and probably noticing the timing cover seeping, so again long term they end up being close in cost; upfront it's not that much different except the 2UZ-FE does have a disadvantage, but nothing ridiculously high.

-My datapoints are having driven lifted/larger tire 4th gens with V6s of varying configurations as well as a few V8 4th Gens. I've also had MANY V6 owners asking me how they notice my V8 pulls better with all the mods compared to their V6. There's also the whole gearing and higher torque band that shows up when you drive the two vehicles and all that data is readily available to pour through. I'm not saying the V6 becomes a slug when you load it up with 33's, a full metal bumper, and a lift kit. But it does require a more enthusiasm than my V8 which is still somehow pulling about 8sec (factory being a rated something like 7.6) 0-60 with 33's, full skids, full metal bumper, and a 3" lift kit. Not to mention many people I have talked to have noticed a more significant drop-off when loading up the V6 for towing/heavy hauling compared to the V8 (this is also evident in the Tundras, where they get pretty crappy mileage, but it doesn't significantly change much when towing because the engine isn't working that much harder comparatively.) Again, this comes down to the simple physics and math, the 1GR-FE has a higher torque band (it's not as bad as say a Honda, it's actually pretty good for a Truck/SUV V6 engine) and different gearing than the 2UZ-FE. Again, I'm not saying that the 1GR-FE is a slouch or it's junk; I'm just pointing out that the real world result is that most average drivers and data show that the V8 just "pulls" a bit harder than the V6.

~

Again, my point has always been that the 2UZ-FE has been a good, reliable, and powerful engine in Toyota's line-up. It was good enough to use in the Tundra, LandCruiser (which it was originally developed for), the Sequoia, and 4Runner. But by the end of the 4th gen's production run it was definitely starting to show it's age (it was 14 years old when it was finally put to pasture in 2011), the point was made that in prior threads you've based you're assumptions based on apples to oranges comparisons as you did now by comparing the 2UZ-FE (a Cast Iron Block, Aluminum Head) engine with the newer, completely different 1UR-FE & 3UR-FE (Aluminum Block, Nitrite Coated Cast Iron Sleeve, Aluminum Head) engines.

The bottom line being that the V8 is a stout, reliable, and plenty powerful engine for it's time. The V6 wasn't a slouch by any means and was comparable to V8, earning the same reputation and love from Toyota owners. There's also the point that unlike other brands, you can't get more power out of either engine without sinking a ton of money into them, so if you want that extra bit of power; you're better off spending less for a V8 than you would a supercharger kit. Neither engine is bad, neither engine is exceptional; but for Toyota they've been bombproof powerhouses. To discredit the 2UZ-FE by saying it's mundane because it doesn't meet the expectations you've cultivated based on a newer generation of engines without context is like saying the old GM LT1 engine is a crap V8 because the New LT1 makes more power than a 20+yr old engine design. Or that the FJ40 is a junk 4WD SUV because the LC200 is newer and better than a half decade old junkpile. Just because something is "newer & better" does not automatically discredit the previous generation, but it does necessitate proper context; because making that incorrect leap is not far. It just takes recognizing evolution & improvement for what it is, taking something that was already pretty good and making it that much better.

Post Note-

Something else to consider... If the 2UZ-FE is such a "paltry" engine and consumers were not at all fooled by it's insignificance compared to the 1GR-FE; why are there more 2UZ-FE Equipped Tundras? The difference between the two engines being so negligible and minuscule vs. the premium for it; why did consumers purchase more 2UZ-FE equipped Tundras than 1GR-FE equipped ones since the 1GR-FE had a good almost 5yrs as an option to dethrone the mundane 2UZ-FE. I mean the Tundra didn't significantly weigh more than the 4Runner (the 4th gen being about 4,200lbs and the Tundras ranging from 4000~4200lbs in the first gen and 2nd gen being a much more portly 4900~5700lbs) until the 2nd Gen and for the most part the towing, hauling expectations are about the same, with the Tundra having a bit more room to throw stuff in the back. I mean hell, even the porky 2nd gen Tundra could just be looked at as a "heavy" 4th Gen, you'd probably add about 400~600lbs pounds in tires, suspension, bumpers, skids, ect. (not even counting gear and such) so it should still be comparable; not to mention the biggest complaint regarding the 5th gen these days besides the ridiculously high premium for them is the lack of power they seem to have compared to the 4th Gen V8, hell even the "Older" V6.

Just some food for thought is all. To be quite honest, if I didn't have such a horrid experience with that pathetically anemic 4.3L Vortec V6 in my old S10; I probably would have snagged up a 1GR-FE 4Runner or FJ Cruiser because they are not at all bad engines. The S10 left such a bad taste in my mouth that the slightly better V8 just made more sense when I sat down and looked at everything. Also I'd love to squeeze a SuperCharged 3UR-FE in the 4Runner... it's doable, I just don't have the money or time right now to make it happen.

I really don't have much to add as @BlackWorksInc summed it up pretty good. I drive these trucks every day and even with the added maintenance, I would pick the V8 any day. I love the lower end torque and the exhaust note. I never even bothered looking for a V6. Plus, as long as you don't drive it like an *******, they get nearly identical gas mileage. I've calculated (read: not on the display) 22.6 mpg on a highway cruise during the summer. Winter would obviously be less due to the colder air temp and we all know that denser air requires more fuel.


Now, here's my personal experience. I have a buddy with a 2011 T4R, bone stock. He got rid of his old blazer when he upgraded his bass boat. The boat with trailer, weighs around 3500lbs or so. When I went on a trip with him, I felt the engine had to downshift a lot more and stay in much higher RPMs to maintain speed on bigger hills. It's not terrible, but just noticeable. Now remember, the new generation 4R motor makes 270hp/278ft.lbs.

Then I towed it and let him drive it. He said that he likes his body style a little more, but if they had the V8 available, he'd go trade his truck in that day.



We all have our reasons for buying or not buying something. I have mine, you have yours. But I know personally, I'd always get the best engine I can. I feel that the V8 is worth every penny.

Sorry, but the V6 is not as reliable, durable, or smooth as the V8 period. There is no substitute for the over engineering on the V8. Iron block, forged internals, iridium pkugs, lack of an EGR system etc etc. The V8 was designed for the no-compromise Land Cruiser. The V6 is not even in the same league.

You can argue minimal paper differences between the two. The fact is the driving experience is completely different.

End. Of. Story.

I'm pretty sure these motors do not have forged internals. Otherwise, those early S/C kits wouldn't have put so many rods through the blocks.

Pretty much boils it all down....

If you want a V8 your going to get a V8...better torque, more sound ! more gas! and quite frankly, I got one for all those reasons and the fact that it is a quickly fading part of American car culture...

HELL there is even an F-150 with a four cylinder.. the technology of new turbos and direct fuel injection is fascinating and produces huge power, the competition is not between just companies but technologies (Gas, Diesel, Electric etc.) so it is only a matter of years before what we know of automobiles is totally different, it already is


Also a good point to consider is the recession of the late 00's, really sort of drives up the used car market...

Only the American 2UZ in the tundra and sequoia had cast rods. Japanese 2UZ in LC and 4R never had rod issues.

Power and torque are one thing. You can blow a small displacement engine and get both, we know that. Long term reliability and durability are another. I guarantee the 2UZ's will still be around and driving like new long after small displacement, sky-high revving, aluminum blocked blown engines get some miles on them.

I've looked into this and found no solid evidence to support that claim one way or the other. The reality is that they are "forged" like other "forged" connecting rod; by taking metal powder and pressure forming it into a rod. This is common practice with the majority of all manufactuers, as opposed to pouring them. The main issue with the 2UZ and all the other V8's & V6's is that Toyota makes these rods very thin to save weight and reciprocating mass; great for the NA motor, not so great when you're trying to bump up the compression and it detonates.

Good god you're an idiot. They killed the 4.7 because of the recession, gas prices at the time and competing with the other V8 trucks/SUV's. There is a stupid misperception that the V6 is almost as good as the V8, it aint'. Period

They killed the 4.7 because of this recession you speak of, but kept making all their other V8s, including the 4.6 and 5.7???????? hmm yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

You are a complete knuckle head. I revoke my offer of a cookie. No cookie for you! Now down!

Yet as I mentioned above, the 2UZ-FE was used for quite some time in other products because it was such a strong engine for Toyota. For such a "paltry" engine, there sure are a ton more Tundras with 2UZ-FE's in them than 1GR-FE's as I pointed out a couple posts above... So you're logic that consumers "knew better" is a bit flawed there. Not to mention the 5th Gen's opening gambit was offering the truly pathetic 2TR-FE Inline 4cyl engine in 2010 because Toyota was specifically trying to revive sales with a more "fuel saver" image of the 4Runner, one of the main reasons the 2UZ-FE was dropped, again as I had pointed out in my post above.

It's about context and looking at the whole picture, hell I'm sure if we wanted to @1engineer has reams of sales data on the 4Runner. He enjoys graphing all that junk.

One thing I've noticed on the V8 over the V6 is it is a very low revving engine, extremely quiet. Up hills, coasting at 80mph, always below 2000rpm. Both my third Gen V6 could not do that, don't know about new 4th / 5th Gen V6. Gas milage is similar. The timing belt change is a very amateur mechanic job so that shouldn't scare anyone. I would test drive both and see what you like. What you need to check on the V8 is the 4wd hi / low actuator. These lock up when not cycled every now and then.