So you had a crooked steering wheel and one turn on tie rod straightened it out. Hmmm .. I see you have "taco Tabs" so LCA should be locked in place, What do you think caused your steering wheel to be crooked?
Just curious. I'm not a believer in correcting steering wheel with tie rods as it seems to me one wheel would be out of toe with respect to the other and adjusting both the same amount would'nt correct steer wheel.
Or am I missing something?
So you had a crooked steering wheel and one turn on tie rod straightened it out. Hmmm .. I see you have "taco Tabs" so LCA should be locked in place, What do you think caused your steering wheel to be crooked?
Just curious. I'm not a believer in correcting steering wheel with tie rods as it seems to me one wheel would be out of toe with respect to the other and adjusting both the same amount would'nt correct steer wheel.
Or am I missing something?
The LCA 'should' be locked in place but the UCA heims that I use to adjust the camber and caster can't move, and unless the tie rods bend (no evidence of that) the only other option is that the LCA moved or I have a bent spindle(s).
I'd bet the LCA moved somehow, the Taco Tabs aren't flush against the cam tabs, so the cam tabs might be flattened/bent (I know one is) allowing some extra play. Either that or since I'm using the maximum caster Taco Tabs, it's putting extra stress on the bushings by cocking the arm at an angle to the frame and potentially wearing or slicing the bushings. I haven't looked closely at them since the trip but I've heard this could be an issue.
I would say you are definitely missing something LOL. Toe is what you use to correct your steering wheel, and tie rods are the only way to adjust toe.
Let me try to explain it a bit further. Start with adjusting camber and caster which is typically adjusted with the LCA cams, in my case its the UCA heims threading in and out so I start with camber, then fine tune the caster if I have any adjustment range left. This is with the LCA pivoted all the way forward in it's maximum caster setting like I mentioned.
After camber and caster are good, then you adjust toe because camber and caster can change toe. You notice this effect whenever your steering wheel is crooked after wheeling, likely your tie rods haven't moved, bent, or came unthreaded, it was the LCA cams that moved causing a shift in toe. While adjusting toe there are two variables you need to balance, you want very slight toe in, and also the steering wheel needs to be straight.
The steering wheel can be straight but toe could be 5 degrees positive to either side which would cause terrible wear and effect handling. This is why you can't simply guess which tie rod to adjust if your steering wheel is crooked after a trail, you have to know what side of the vehicle shifted to properly center the steering wheel.
Same goes for the opposite, toe could be perfect but the steering wheel crooked.
Just my explanation of what I've learned, hope it makes sense.
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2005 4R Sport 4WD "The last of the V8s!" - Custom TIG'd SS Dual Exhaust - King 2.5" +2 LT. - ARB Front & Rear - 37's - Dana 60 - Build Thread
2005 Tundra 2WD Regular Cab V8 - Chopped Frame - Short Bed Swap
1977 Celica Liftback - LFX Swap - Build Thread
Great trip report Inv4derZm!
Thanks for sharing your adventure.
I am wondering about the rack too.
You ever feel the temperature of the rack unit after a hard trail?
Are these things overheating?
Guess you saw that "tummy tuck" on the 5th gens.
Did you make some metal spash guards? Engine bay, guess i missed that mod.
Yours was my favorite one in the group... guess i am biased though.
/cheers
They probably get pretty hot, I know the GX on 37's had issues early on the Rubicon with power steering only working in one direction shortly after an obstacle he used a front locker on and was trying to steer. We let it cool down in the shade for 20 minutes and it started working properly again. He kept from abusing too hard the rest of the trail and didn't have any more issues. Maybe a larger reservoir, cooler, and some heat shielding will alleviate some issues, maybe it just needs a Tundra or Landcruiser rack. 37's at 15-10psi are pretty difficult to turn.
Yes, I need the tummy tuck, or my own version.
Fender liners, starts on page 54, finished on page 56. I love those things.
Don't worry, mine was my favorite too!!
__________________
2005 4R Sport 4WD "The last of the V8s!" - Custom TIG'd SS Dual Exhaust - King 2.5" +2 LT. - ARB Front & Rear - 37's - Dana 60 - Build Thread
2005 Tundra 2WD Regular Cab V8 - Chopped Frame - Short Bed Swap
1977 Celica Liftback - LFX Swap - Build Thread
The LCA 'should' be locked in place but the UCA heims that I use to adjust the camber and caster can't move, and unless the tie rods bend (no evidence of that) the only other option is that the LCA moved or I have a bent spindle(s).
I'd bet the LCA moved somehow, the Taco Tabs aren't flush against the cam tabs, so the cam tabs might be flattened/bent (I know one is) allowing some extra play. Either that or since I'm using the maximum caster Taco Tabs, it's putting extra stress on the bushings by cocking the arm at an angle to the frame and potentially wearing or slicing the bushings. I haven't looked closely at them since the trip but I've heard this could be an issue.
I would say you are definitely missing something LOL. Toe is what you use to correct your steering wheel, and tie rods are the only way to adjust toe.
Let me try to explain it a bit further. Start with adjusting camber and caster which is typically adjusted with the LCA cams, in my case its the UCA heims threading in and out so I start with camber, then fine tune the caster if I have any adjustment range left. This is with the LCA pivoted all the way forward in it's maximum caster setting like I mentioned.
After camber and caster are good, then you adjust toe because camber and caster can change toe. You notice this effect whenever your steering wheel is crooked after wheeling, likely your tie rods haven't moved, bent, or came unthreaded, it was the LCA cams that moved causing a shift in toe. While adjusting toe there are two variables you need to balance, you want very slight toe in, and also the steering wheel needs to be straight.
The steering wheel can be straight but toe could be 5 degrees positive to either side which would cause terrible wear and effect handling. This is why you can't simply guess which tie rod to adjust if your steering wheel is crooked after a trail, you have to know what side of the vehicle shifted to properly center the steering wheel.
Same goes for the opposite, toe could be perfect but the steering wheel crooked.
Just my explanation of what I've learned, hope it makes sense.
Thanks for response. Personally I think the LCA adjustment feature is just wrong ( it worked fine on several million vehicles I realize). You have the adjustment cams in the same plane, then you cock one forward, one backward to achieve a desired setting, only possible(?) because they are in a pliable rubber bushing, but up and down movement over bumps has to be restricted (In my opinion). I like the Taco tabs because can set both front and rear same so LCA can follow terrain more freely, not in a cocked bind.
I have SPC uppers so can get the caster/camber I need there, also can move LCA forward/backward equally to get some camber. I agree with being able to adjust toe with the tie rods but ideally would'nt we want them both adjusted the same? That way each tire is toed same amount. So if an alignment is done, all new components, everything in spec, each wheel toed same, steering wheel centered and come back from wheeling and steering wheel off center, unless find something that got moved, would'nt something have to be bent? Not arguing, just making sure I have a handle(somewhat) on what's happening on our 4Runners.
I think the LCA should be designed like a motorcycle swingarm.
Thanks for response. Personally I think the LCA adjustment feature is just wrong ( it worked fine on several million vehicles I realize). You have the adjustment cams in the same plane, then you cock one forward, one backward to achieve a desired setting, only possible(?) because they are in a pliable rubber bushing, but up and down movement over bumps has to be restricted (In my opinion). I like the Taco tabs because can set both front and rear same so LCA can follow terrain more freely, not in a cocked bind.
I have SPC uppers so can get the caster/camber I need there, also can move LCA forward/backward equally to get some camber. I agree with being able to adjust toe with the tie rods but ideally would'nt we want them both adjusted the same? That way each tire is toed same amount. So if an alignment is done, all new components, everything in spec, each wheel toed same, steering wheel centered and come back from wheeling and steering wheel off center, unless find something that got moved, would'nt something have to be bent? Not arguing, just making sure I have a handle(somewhat) on what's happening on our 4Runners.
I think the LCA should be designed like a motorcycle swingarm.
Toe will always find center, so each tire when driving down the road will have the same toe-in or toe-out. Whether the rack is perfectly centered and each tie rod is the same length I'm not sure.
The easiest way for an alignment to get messed up while wheeling is if the cam gets bumped by a rock and rotates a little, or enough pressure gets placed on the tire (maybe by winching against something hard) the bushing deflects and allows the cam to flatten the tab and then the cam can rotate easier. Polyurethane bushings in the stock control arms should prevent some of this issue because they are harder than the factory rubber, but the Total Chaos arms I have practically use plastic bushings, they are that hard.
I just crawled under my truck and this might be the culprit. Front driver's side LCA mount. Might have flattened the tab like I mentioned which would explain the toe out I was experiencing. Tab gussets are in my near future.
Another pic of carnage just because:
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2005 4R Sport 4WD "The last of the V8s!" - Custom TIG'd SS Dual Exhaust - King 2.5" +2 LT. - ARB Front & Rear - 37's - Dana 60 - Build Thread
2005 Tundra 2WD Regular Cab V8 - Chopped Frame - Short Bed Swap
1977 Celica Liftback - LFX Swap - Build Thread
Any chance you would share your truck model with me? I've got an '05 V8 Limited so it should match yours. I want to design my own bumper. I want something like the Victory4X4 or C4 fab minimalist winch bumper but with a front receiver hitch over the winch.
I have Solidworks files of it, can you use those? I don't have access to Solidworks anymore to convert them to step or another file type.
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2005 4R Sport 4WD "The last of the V8s!" - Custom TIG'd SS Dual Exhaust - King 2.5" +2 LT. - ARB Front & Rear - 37's - Dana 60 - Build Thread
2005 Tundra 2WD Regular Cab V8 - Chopped Frame - Short Bed Swap
1977 Celica Liftback - LFX Swap - Build Thread
I have Solidworks files of it, can you use those? I don't have access to Solidworks anymore to convert them to step or another file type.
I had a solidworks license for school last year. I just checked and I have 1 day left lol, so I can try to help out before end of day tomorrow if another format is needed.
I had a solidworks license for school last year. I just checked and I have 1 day left lol, so I can try to help out before end of day tomorrow if another format is needed.
Thanks for the offer, I think I can get my brother to do it though. Where he works they use Solidworks.
__________________
2005 4R Sport 4WD "The last of the V8s!" - Custom TIG'd SS Dual Exhaust - King 2.5" +2 LT. - ARB Front & Rear - 37's - Dana 60 - Build Thread
2005 Tundra 2WD Regular Cab V8 - Chopped Frame - Short Bed Swap
1977 Celica Liftback - LFX Swap - Build Thread
One of the guys in our group that we met in California has a Youtube channel named Offroad Hub. His latest video is our group run of Fordyce trail with some nice shots of my 4Runner.
Check it out, Ken's a cool Toyota guy, and his Rubicon video should have lots of the 4Runner in it too, from what I've heard.
I had a solidworks license for school last year. I just checked and I have 1 day left lol, so I can try to help out before end of day tomorrow if another format is needed.
I wish Solidworks personal licenses were so absurdly expensive.
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