ive been running 35s since about February of 16, i wont have as much information to weigh in with as T-man

Tire size: 35x12.50x17

Tire Make/Model: atturo trail blade m/t

Wheels: diameter x width - offset/backspacing: SCS sr8 17x8.5 4.30" BS -10mm offset

Bodylift: 1"

Approx. Suspension lift setting over stock: (do not include bodylift): 3" front and rear

Aftermarket UCA's: Total Chaos

Caster correction: (if running aftermarket UCA's, how much caster?) Not sure

Bumpers: Stock or Aftermarket: pelfreybilt 3 hoop

Trimming: Where specifically did you trim to make the tires fit? body mount chop, front pinch welds, plastic part of the rear bumper, part of firewall had to be hammered. With stock fenders had to trim those some (on fiberglass fenders now)

Bumpstop drop? (if yes, how much): Didn't even know that was a thing lol

Does it still rub at full compression? full compression, probably. Does for sure rub when i turn at on certain streets because of the angle of the turn
Where? part of the frame, sway bar, and not sure if i do anywhere else (basing it off rub marks i can see)
Any issues? besides rubbing, no

Anything you would do differently? do EXTENSIVE research before i bit the bullet on the 35s, as of right now i wish i wouldn't have gotten the 35s. And will continue to wish that until i have officially gotten all the rubbing out of the way (if that every happens)

Getting 2" wheel spacers in the future, so im hoping that will help a little bit with the rubbing


let me know if i missed any key points

Thank you guys so much!! Im working on building myself up to 35's...I recently ordered an aftermarket front bumper and it should be done in about a month. Already threw on a new icon suspension with 1.5" body lift, dirt king ucas, metal tech rear long travel springs with their lower and upper links as well, and icons adjustable track bar. Body mount has been chopped. Once the front bumper is installed, I'm gonna order 35s and start trimming. This thread is going to be very helpful!

if you run a drop bracket dont you need a bump stop spacer so you dont bottom out the coil?

It's usually part of the package.

Sent from the drivers seat of my 05 4runner.

Depends on the drop-bracket manufacturer. But usually they have spacers/built-in drop brackets for the factory bump stops to screw into. At least on the front cradle they do, I am not sure what they do in the rear; I imagine just large spacer blocks.

The ones I have seen have been on Tacoma's and Tundra's, and their solution was either super stacked leaf springs (which will probably never bottom out) and/or drop brackets for the shackles and some sort of bump stop (I forget what it was exactly as it wasn't the typical style that goes under the leaf spring U-Bolts.)

Interesting, I guess the sway bar units are a bit beefier...
...
Non-Sway Bar Gusset (Left) and Sway-Bar Gusset (Right)


Looks like the Sway-Bar ones have an additional winglet tying the tie-rod arm to the main gusset. Didn't notice that when I was looking for them, just assumed the non-sway bar one wasn't pre-drilled.

Great info coming out here guys.

An interesting read on spindle gussets, and how totally worthless they are:

TTORA Forum - View Single Post - Spindle Gussets Discussion

Keep in mind this guy^ has worked closely with Camburg and has successfully been running 37" tires on his 01' Tundra for several years.... You can decide what you wish about adding spindle gussets or not.

For reference, I am not scared to "trim"...

I was able to make my 35" Toyo's fit with 1.5" of lift on my previous truck. Even the small 7.5" front diff and CV's were happy due to the flat CV angles. Was hoping to avoid this much cutting though with the minty 4th gen in my garage if I go this route.


20131107-IMG_3926.jpg by Addison Rickaby, on Flickr

The goal was to keep the truck COG very low. The fact so many people run bodylifts surprises me TBH.

Nice and low:

IMG_7440.jpg by Addison Rickaby, on Flickr

completely agree! no body lifts on my rigs.

@rickashay

I agree with most everything that linked posts says except for one thing.

He fails to realize that the gusset is not a simple flat plate, which changes it's load/strength characteristics as well as how it's welded to the spindle.

A few people have seen the spindles "bow" over time due to very heavy set-ups (i.e. vehicle and unsprung weight) and typically repeated abuse such as dropping the vehicle on a tire (like coming off a large obstacle) and/or faster off-roading driving (i.e. moguls, baja-style driving conditions). This isn't a typical or normal thing, so I'd say gusseting is more of an insurance/preventative thing than a requirement.

For example, I recently had a run in with a log at about 30mph right into the passenger tire (an atypical impact/force to the suspension) and obviously I bent the crap out of that spindle (exactly where a lot of people have been seeing them bent, the thin section bowed).



Factory spindle for reference (sorry for the large photo, it's not mine)



The spindles both curve inwards and slightly backwards in design, so certain forces if imparted enough could "tweak" the spindle out of designed curvature. In many cases you may not have as catastrophic a misalignment as mine (I borrowed a member's 1.5" spacer to space the wheel away from the UCA enough to limp it down the trail). But you will notice alignment that is way off and/or that can't be brought within desired measurements, SAI that's very off (depending on your suspension set-up SAI will be out of whack anyways), and/or rubbing/handling characteristics because the suspension geometry has changed.

Which brings me to why I disagree with one point that was mentioned in the linked post. The poster fails to realize that the 1/8" plate is not just a flat thing tacked onto the side. It's a pre-bent and strategically welded section of reinforcement taking advantage of that specific design. The fact that it's bent provides a partial "boxing" effect to the spindle vs. just a flat plate, the additional ribs (as in the sway-bar TC ones) provide a bit better spread for the forces that would "bow" the spindle. This is very common in many applications as using bent gussets or structures of thinner material to reinforce thicker main assemblies is a great way to reduce weight while retaining similar or in some cases better strength characteristics.

It won't prevent the hub bore from cracking as he mentioned before, but it will help prevent the long, thin spindle section from "bowing" under certain inpacts/repetitive forces.

I would say that if you are overhauling the suspension and you know a good welder, for $60 it's not a bad idea to just beef them up pre-preemptively if you know you're gonna abuse your vehicle.

Post Note-

I'm not against trimming or cutting up the body for clearance, Body Lifts are just easier to work with (I highly recommend anyone doing a body lift invest in new body mounts); cutting up the body and fenders to fit the tires (harder to do in the rear of the 4th gens because the rear door is part of the rear fender well itself and means relocating the rear axle backwards and extending the back wheel well backwards and modifying the body to accommodate that) is a bit more work than trying to get by with a 1~1.5" Body Lift. Yes it raises the center of gravity some, but that's why a lot of use went with a 1 or 1.5" vs. a 2"+ body lift, to maintain a lower CoG while trying to clear 35's. Realistically you can just hack the fenders up, throw spacers on there, and then extend the bump-stops to where you have basically no up-travel and now you can run 35's. But that falls under "mall-crawler", to really make them functional without resorting to a body lift requires more fabrication than most people are willing to do at that point in their build.

Side note, did you have the body panels restitched and then capped after you trimmed it? Those pinch welds are there because it's where about 4~6 (at least on the 4th gens) structural panels of the body meet and tie to the firewall. Just hacking them off and slapping a plate over the hole might work, but it could also introduce un-predictable forces on the body in that section. I eventually will probably trim that spot on my vehicle as well, but I will probably have one or two plates laser cut with slots so that I can tie all the body panels together to the new plate (so it will act similarly to the purpose of the original pinch weld) and then cap that plate; ideally retaining some semblance of structural integrity. (I'm not trying to put you on the spot, I'm just trying to explain my reasoning should anyone reading this thread not understand why I am saying to not just cap it. )

I get a lot of people have done it and "nothing's happened so it must be fine", but what you're essentially doing is cutting up a uni-body (that's basically how the body is built) and not reinforcing what you've cut out if you just cap it. The "well nothing bad has happened yet" excuse (not that I am accusing you of that, but it's the most common thing I hear) tends to make me cringe when I see stuff being done incorrectly, because it's the same kind of excuse you get from drunk drivers on why they keep driving piss drunk...

@rickashay

That same member who was against spindle gussets in the thread you linked mentioned in a couple posts down; "The gussets previously sold were to correct a completely different issue ... you guys are convincing me these are a necessary part of building an FJ." (FJ's have the same spindles as our 4Runners.) Seems like the Tundra guy's spindles weren't bending for the same reason as ours if I interpreted correctly?

My opinion is that if welded correctly, not too hot to retemper, make brittle, or warp the spindle completely, gussets can only add strength to it. Like mentioned in that spindle thread, treat them as braces, weld them on with short runs only where you need to, don't weld the crap out of them.


Arguments I have that are pro body lift, which are points you may already be aware of, are:

• A BL doesn't raise the CG as much as a suspension lift will, given the same cab height between the two. (Not that it's measurably different)
  
• A suspension lift doesn't give you any more "wheeling clearance," like what you mentioned, but a BL does (along with trimming or fiberglass fenders). If you can run a BL without bump stop spacers to fit 35's that would be ideal, but the spacers aren't completely evil if they allow you to move up a tire size.

I'm just not sure why more people aren't running larger BL's? On paper, a 2.5" BL and a 0-1" lift spring or a 0-1" lift spring+spacer to keep it from falling out paired with decent travel shocks would keep CG as low as possible (compared to combined 4.5" or more lifts) and clearance for 35's abundant. Maybe I'm just crazy?

If you can get the suspension travel from upgraded shocks and additional tire clearance from a body lift, isn't that the best of both worlds? For example, turn the 1.5" suspension lift on your white Tundra into a 1.5" BL. Why would than not be better if you kept the same travel?

Edit: The answer is a trade-off between tire rubbing clearance and ground clearance. Tire rubbing clearance can be made up for with trimming, the only way to gain ground clearance is with larger tires or a suspension lift. (With the suspension lift being a lot easier and greater increase)
t-man reminded me the missing link was ground clearance. Carry on.

I think body lift a got a bad name from years ago when guys modified hockey pucks for their chevy trucks. For obvious reasons of stacked spacers, unsafe spacers. And a complete hack job this allowed movement and created issues of course. Movement equals breakage!
No lift means lower cog, yes, but then fitting tires poses an issue. As @Inv4drZm said, if you put a 2" body lift and suspension lifted trucks side by side the suspension lifted truck will have a slightly higher cog because it moves everything up, whereas a body lift left the heavy drive train and frame below. The disadvantage now becomes that you didn't really improve ground clearance with the body lift, the tires do that, which would be on both trucks. A suspension lift on the other hand technically gives you more ground clearance, although the rear pumpkin is still in the same spot and only goes up with the tires too. Now, to add to this, usually with a lift a person puts on bigger tires, which usually requires moving the tires out too. This effectively makes your vehicle more stable as now it has a wider footprint. Kind of like if you stand with your feet together and someone pushes you, it's hard not to lean. Spread your legs out a little and it becomes much easier to resist that force and stand up tall.
With my truck being as tall as it is, and no sway bars, and remember I don't have better springs really either, just Tacoma and FJ coils, that I still don't feel like my truck is tippy. Yes it leans, but I never feel I'm in danger. I put it through some pretty hairy shit without issue or fear of tipping. I don't rock crawl, so I can't give an experienced opinion there, but I definitely get in some off camber spots in the woods and ditches!
So back to the body lift speech, if you put a quality lift on, that uses blocks as wide or wider than the bushings, heavier hardware to support it, torque it down properly and check later I believe you aren't hurting anything. Vehicle, cog, etc. Especially with our trucks and the lack of fender openings, and that damn rear door in the fender!, unless you are limiting travel, boooo 👎, you will hit and rub and have issues. Unless as stated, you move the rear axle back and trim the rear of the fender.
Ok, I rambled enough... 😀

Sent from the drivers seat of my 05 4runner.

This is good. Generating discussion. Please dont flame me, this thread is labelled "35's on a 4th Gen - The fitment Guide" and that is exactly what it's about. As mentioned in the initial post there are multiple factors in making them fit, and also multiple ways of doing so. This thread is a resource so people who want to run a 35 can see the discussion and points of argument for all the setup types that will make them fit, then decide on a method that best suits their uses.

The spindle article is also not my opinion... Notice the gussets on my 1st Gen Tundra?

But it does have some interesting factors in it, and what I took away from it was the importance of proper pre-heating when welding them up. (Which I did when mine were installed)

Good points on new bodymounts when installed a bodylift. I would do the same if I were to install one. I do think axle relocation is a fairly easy way to get the tire out of the rear door though, as the rear of the rear wheel well if definitely easier to make room than the front. Longer lower links are a fairly easy DIY job and there are tons of aftermarket options out there.

Yes, I did cap the hole and folded the plate around each segment. The reality is that the pinch weld doesnt entirely disappear. In addition, each one of the affected panels was tied into the new plate as well as tied back into the main A-pillar support of the truck. Is the cap and plate as good as the factory bodywork? Hell no, I don't think anyone would be cutting holes in the floor of their truck for bigger tires if they were worried about retaining factory design specs. You do bring up good points but I also monitored this section of my truck closely for 2 years with extensive onroad and offroad use - without issue. But agree to disagree on that one.

The reality is some people will choose to cut instead of bodylift.

I agree there is a lot of tolerance on the trail. Stability in off-camber situations has to do with COG. But many factors influence COG. How is your internal cargo mounted? Do you have a roof rack? RTT? What are your wheel specs? (as you said, wider stance improves stability). Are you running sway bars? I've always ran tippy vehicles (my 80 w/o sway bars felt quite scary to some people, but I was used to it). As I get older though, I start to think of the highway situation when an emergency evasive maneuver might have to be performed. I was used to driving my tippy 3rd Gen 4Runner and tippy 80-series, but I assure you if I had to make a 60mph swerve to miss a Moose on the highway, the truck(s) would not have stayed tires down.

I do agree that I think bodylift got a bad rap from older components and technology. The reality is that proper BL's with new hardware and even if installed with new mounts is probably not going to hurt anything. I actually like the argument for BL and how it has less of a COG increase VS an equivalent suspension lift. I just ask how many people on here are executing this strategy and running say 1" of suspension lift and a 2" bodylift to coincide with that ideology? Maybe a few... but not many. It seems the more common theme (observation) is 2-3" suspension lift and 1-2" of bodylift on top. Not saying thats bad or good but in the sake of the bodylift vs. suspension lift argument, it seems like it doesn't apply as these two methods are commonly "stacked" - obviously for one reason or another.

Good points on the awkward shape of the wheel wells. Definitely seems to be a repeat comment so there is obviously some truth there! And yes, no one wants to limit travel excessively. Like anything though, to run these larger tires, we have to give something up.... whether it's cutting, bodylift for more fender clearance, or dropping the bumpstops.

I just want to highlight all these issues so people can find themselves (myself potentially as well) the optimal combination of these factors for how to setup their own rig with 35's.

I appreciate all the discussion. There is a ton of good info coming into this thread. Stoked for more of the specifics though, especially on wheel specs and where the problem points are for rubbing.

Tire Size & Make: 315/70/17 Cooper STMAXX
Wheels: Method Race Wheels - Standards - 17x8.5 0 offset
Bodylift: None
Approx. Suspension lift setting over stock: 3" over stock. King extended coilover w/resi up front. Rear is Metal Tech LT 2" rear springs with 10" King Bypasses with resi.
Aftermarket UCA's: Total Chaos UCA & LCAs
Caster correction: Currently at 4.8*
Bumpers: Custom tube bumper
Trimming: rear bumper plastic expansion cut with a body mount chop as well as a flattened pinch weld.
Bumpstop drop?: 1 3/4" rear bumpstop drop, as well as front. Both front and rear have Wheelers Off-Road "Super Bump" Bump Stops
Notes: I only rub on my corner of my body at the body mount chop corner when my alignment is off and/or below 4* caster. No rubbing in the rear.

My wife and I have been talk about upgrading to 35's... Having read this thread though, I'm still uncertain what I would likely need to do to get 35's on my 4runner.

So here's a question for those more mechanically inclined than I-given my current build, what (if anything) would I need to change?

Currently:

• 33's on 17” Stealth 6 wheels
• Sonoran Steel 3" lift kit, with adjustable Bilstein coilovers (front), rear Bilstein shocks and Tundra TRD rear coil springs
• Built Right Fabrication front upper A-arms
• Metal Tech 4x4 FJ Cruiser/4Runner Offset Rear Lower Replacement Links
• Nitro 4.56 gears in the diffs
• Some trimming already done

@rickashay

I apologize if I came off as "flaming" or attacking you, the post was more about providing a counterpoint than picking on you (honestly it seems like you do good work and I respect that.)

Honestly it sounds like you did that trim job right, tied the panels to each other and to the main body of the car; as I said before some of that wasn't directed to you but rather in general in regards to people not doing things right and using excuses such as "it hasn't gone wrong yet." I've seen people stack 1.5" body lifts to get 3" body lifts, overload their vehicle with excessive weight in mods but stll run 5100's when they're vehicle is tipping closer to 6,000lbs; ect.

The rear well is tricky to work with and honestly if I were to tub it out a bit I'd have to figure out how to make the interior look good, otherwise you'd have to strip out the entire interior rear of the seats to make it work properly (because there are really only 2 large panels on each side that make up the interior). For a trophy truck or a dedicated off-roader it might not be a big issue, but for me I like to try and make my mods look as seamless/factory as I can. That's why a suspension lift and body lift work well to accommodate the tires in that section so well, particularly if you push the axle back an inch or so and run a aftermarket rear bumper.

CoG is a difficult thing to tackle when it comes to our vehicles when we start modding them. Realistically there's too many variables to account for. I can attest that at 30~40mph my 4th gen with 35's stays fairly planted in a "Moose Test" situation as I have had that happen once before due to an idiot on the road. 60mph? Maybe? Proper suspension and track width could help offset that type of body roll, granted we're not talking about making the 4th gen into a track car; but a good suspension and wider track width will help to offset minor amounts of change in CoG (such as a body lift or 1~3" suspension lift.)

To clarify, your front bumpstop has been dropped 1.75" or is it just the rear?

Interesting how your wheel specs are quite conservative and your rubbing issues without a BL seem quite minor. Thanks for sharing.

Honestly, no offense taken. Like I said, glad all aspects of this topic are coming to light and the pro's and con's of each. Appreciate your input!