07-01-2019, 11:46 AM
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#1
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POR 15 project forthcoming
Hey - i am coming up on a year with the 4runner and have enjoyed it so far. i have taken it wheeling almost every weekend. i had to look at about 4 trucks before finding one in decent shape rust-wise in the Northeast and i finally did. After one winter with it...i decided im going to POR15 this thing, as i do want it to last for many more years and figured id better get this out of the way. going to buy a quart at a time and do sections at a time over this summer. i still need to figure out if im going to replace the stock skids or treat the ones i have (one small hole in front skid.) i decided to do this after i just recently degreased the entire underside with a strong simple green solution - this project will be worth it where i live, and with the amount of money i have into this thing already with a few other decent mods id like to do as well.
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07-01-2019, 11:53 AM
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#2
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Location: iowa
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just an FYI for ya: POR stands for paint over rust, its intended to be applied over rusty metal or properly cleaned & scuffed bare metal. lots of guys just slather it on everywhere, including over the existing factory coatings or previous paint.
it will go over those areas & hold up for awhile, but its only as strong as the surface its applied over. i would suggest being carefull where you apply it, use it for rusty areas or bare metal where you have sanded, scraped or blasted the paint off. then use a top coat of a good paint over it & the rest of the painted areas so it all matches color.
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07-01-2019, 12:05 PM
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#3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firebirdguy
just an FYI for ya: POR stands for paint over rust, its intended to be applied over rusty metal or properly cleaned & scuffed bare metal. lots of guys just slather it on everywhere, including over the existing factory coatings or previous paint.
it will go over those areas & hold up for awhile, but its only as strong as the surface its applied over. i would suggest being carefull where you apply it, use it for rusty areas or bare metal where you have sanded, scraped or blasted the paint off. then use a top coat of a good paint over it & the rest of the painted areas so it all matches color.
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duly noted, thanks. i am going to get rid of some flaky areas and lightly skuff/wire wheel elsewhere. im sure there will be rust to POR, perhaps ill use some metal etching on other spots that look decent at the moment. i am contemplating using 3M underside spray for the area where my spare used to be (carrier on hatch now) and possibly the skids.
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07-01-2019, 04:15 PM
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#4
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Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: New Hampshire
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Real Name: Mike
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Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: New Hampshire
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Whatever you do don't neglect the inside of the frame as often frames rust inside out. Something like spraying Fluid Film annually in all frame cavities will extend the life a huge amount. The surface rust on the outside is not usually a big issue, it's where salt and moisture sit like on concave areas, inside and any areas of the frame that can collect it. Ford's trucks like to rust on the inside where the gas tank stops the area from getting cleaned.
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03 4runner Limited
1GR-FE V6 w/199k miles
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08-26-2019, 09:47 AM
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#5
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so since creating this post i have been under my truck with a 3m wirewheel,
and i came to the conclusion my frame and undercarriage dont merit POR15 yet...essentially i would need to etch everywhere, i dont have enough surface rust to paint over (what POR15 prefers) i thought about painting just the welds and spot painting, then spraying over, but it didnt add up.
truck is going to be getting all 6 cans of this instead. even though i live in NE my truck is garaged nightly and im glad i spent time finding one that was pretty clean.
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08-26-2019, 11:01 AM
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#6
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that undercoating is going to give the rust a great environment to grow.
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08-26-2019, 11:20 AM
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#7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziff247
that undercoating is going to give the rust a great environment to grow.
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...so just leave the underside as is for now, perhaps oil it only? i painted the whole frame with 5w30 last year and dont have bad rust. are you suggested that aside from por15 or oil (5w30, eastmans, fluid film) all the other undercarriage sprays do the opposite of what they advertise? should i just wait until i have enough rust to use the por15? not suggesting etching and painting all the por15 as purely preventative? i mean i do plan on keeping the truck a while - not sure that long though haha
wish i could post a 4th gen owner local i know - his undercarriage is really bad. entire rear axle and diff complete rust/rot.
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08-26-2019, 11:32 AM
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#8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hinmo24t
...so just leave the underside as is for now, perhaps oil it only? i painted the whole frame with 5w30 last year and dont have bad rust. are you suggested that aside from por15 or oil (5w30, eastmans, fluid film) all the other undercarriage sprays do the opposite of what they advertise? should i just wait until i have enough rust to use the por15? not suggesting etching and painting all the por15 as purely preventative? i mean i do plan on keeping the truck a while - not sure that long though haha
wish i could post a 4th gen owner local i know - his undercarriage is really bad. entire rear axle and diff complete rust/rot.
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I'd honestly just go ahead and do your proper clean/etch/POR15 before it gets any worse. This will permanently convert the rust and seal up the frame. Hell, if they did it at the factory there probably wouldn't be any rust issues! I plan to do the same before winter (we live in IA) and I am also going to fluid film everything else that the POR15 doesn't reach or shouldn't be on. This will include inside the frame, moving parts, axles, boots, suspension parts, nuts/bolts, brake lines, etc.
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08-26-2019, 11:39 AM
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#9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hinmo24t
...so just leave the underside as is for now, perhaps oil it only? i painted the whole frame with 5w30 last year and dont have bad rust. are you suggested that aside from por15 or oil (5w30, eastmans, fluid film) all the other undercarriage sprays do the opposite of what they advertise? should i just wait until i have enough rust to use the por15? not suggesting etching and painting all the por15 as purely preventative? i mean i do plan on keeping the truck a while - not sure that long though haha
wish i could post a 4th gen owner local i know - his undercarriage is really bad. entire rear axle and diff complete rust/rot.
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x2 on the undercoating stuff... it will cause more problems & is a ***** to clean off. undercoatings like that are not waterproof & do allow moisture to get trapped under it & can cause more rust that you dont see untill its too late.
if you cleaned off the oil you sprayed with simple green & have scraped or wired off loose paint & surface rust, i would suggest a good quality normal paint, ive had great luck with rustoleum paint on frames of older cars ive restored, it can be brushed on or use spray cans, or both since its the same paint in spray cans or brush on. & it will stand up to moderate winter road crap, just give it a wash every now & then to keep salt stuff off it.
you could POR the heavy rusted areas like the welds or exposed metal areas by the spare etc, then after it cures scuff it a little & use the rustoleum paint over it as a top coat. then after thats cured you could use a fluid film type product as a protective layer, but that would need to be cleaned up if/when you wanted to touch up or recoat the paint.
they even sell an :industrial" version of the rustoleum paint thats even stronger. for about $5-10/qt its very good paint & is teh best ooption for a DIY driveway type coating. otherwise look into a professional truck shop that does bedliners as they may have a product for frames.
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08-26-2019, 02:16 PM
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#10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziff247
I'd honestly just go ahead and do your proper clean/etch/POR15 before it gets any worse. This will permanently convert the rust and seal up the frame. Hell, if they did it at the factory there probably wouldn't be any rust issues! I plan to do the same before winter (we live in IA) and I am also going to fluid film everything else that the POR15 doesn't reach or shouldn't be on. This will include inside the frame, moving parts, axles, boots, suspension parts, nuts/bolts, brake lines, etc.
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read post #2. coating everything wit por15 is a waste of the product, it should only be used on bare or rusted metal. otherwise you are spending like $40/qt to use it as a basic paint that costs $8-10/qt.
im in iowa too & plan to just wire wheel the surface rust areas & scuff/scrape the factory paint thats flaking & failing, then paint all areas with rustoleum paint. after that i may do a fluid film type coating or eastwood internal frame coating for inside the frame or other areas that get hit with road salt like the main undersde of the frame & skid plates.
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08-26-2019, 02:51 PM
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#11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firebirdguy
read post #2. coating everything wit por15 is a waste of the product, it should only be used on bare or rusted metal. otherwise you are spending like $40/qt to use it as a basic paint that costs $8-10/qt.
im in iowa too & plan to just wire wheel the surface rust areas & scuff/scrape the factory paint thats flaking & failing, then paint all areas with rustoleum paint. after that i may do a fluid film type coating or eastwood internal frame coating for inside the frame or other areas that get hit with road salt like the main undersde of the frame & skid plates.
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Yeah I guess I didn't think of the areas on the frame that still have the factory paint but if properly cleaned and etched it should still bond and seal those areas even if they aren't pure metal/rust... I guess if you want to save $ then rustoleum might be a better option. I like the high gloss that POR15 leaves behind because it sprays off cleaner, which is really the only way you can clean under your car. It might cost more and take more time to do right but that isn't the deciding factor for me personally.
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08-26-2019, 03:42 PM
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#12
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...feels like a giant conundrum lol
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08-27-2019, 11:03 AM
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#13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziff247
Yeah I guess I didn't think of the areas on the frame that still have the factory paint but if properly cleaned and etched it should still bond and seal those areas even if they aren't pure metal/rust... I guess if you want to save $ then rustoleum might be a better option. I like the high gloss that POR15 leaves behind because it sprays off cleaner, which is really the only way you can clean under your car. It might cost more and take more time to do right but that isn't the deciding factor for me personally.
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it will bond to the factory paint but no better than a normal paint & probably not as well since its not really a normal paint, its made to bond to metal & rust.
why wouldn't you want to save money? por15 is very expensive & wont work as well as a true paint over the factory coating, i have used it quite a bit & had mixed results if not applied right. just trying to save someone hassle & frustration of using it other than how its designed.
also most people dont know that por15 is not UV resistant so that high gloss look will fade & turn to a more greyish dull color after some time on any part that sees sun (& frames see sun from reflecting off the concrete) they make a top coat specifically to prevent that or another paint like i mentioned works too. & BTW, rustoleum paint has an excellent high gloss finish for their gloss black... but glossy paint looks kinda tacky when painted over rust or not perfectly smooth surfaces, i would suggest a satin black for a better look.
either way you go, por 15 is fine to use, just make sure you read the instructions & understand how its designed to work, using it any other way is just wasting money.
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08-27-2019, 12:23 PM
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#14
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POR15 has its applications but otherwise I consider it a last ditch product on a vehicle frame application.
What I would do is wire wheel and get all the flakey rust off the welds or wherever else. Come back with a rust converter of your choosing. Most are phosphoric acid based, which is an “okay” converter. Some others use different acids to do the job. The rust converter/metal prep that POR15 company sells is weak sauce. Go with something else. Be careful not too overspray too much on frame as it will leave a white crust, and don’t do it over your garage floor as it will etch concrete. The other option is a spray converter as a base coat and this will skip the whole rinse step required after other converters which can cause flash rusting. Do NOT mistake a rust encapsulator for a converter: they are not the same thing, one covers/hides rust from oxygen and the other actually converts the top layer of rust.
Once that’s done and dried off hit those areas with a rattle can topcoat. Let that cure for a few days. Do a final topcoat with fluid film or something similar and then maintain that from there on out. I like CorrosionX HD personally.
I’ve posted the above both here and TacomaWorld a thousand times it seems but it’s worked well for me.
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08-27-2019, 12:27 PM
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#15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdevtac
POR15 has its applications but otherwise I consider it a last ditch product on a vehicle frame application.
What I would do is wire wheel and get all the flakey rust off the welds or wherever else. Come back with a rust converter of your choosing. Most are phosphoric acid based, which is an “okay” converter. Some others use different acids to do the job. The rust converter/metal prep that POR15 company sells is weak sauce. Go with something else. Be careful not too overspray too much on frame as it will leave a white crust, and don’t do it over your garage floor as it will etch concrete. The other option is a spray converter as a base coat and this will skip the whole rinse step required after other converters which can cause flash rusting. Do NOT mistake a rust encapsulator for a converter: they are not the same thing, one covers/hides rust from oxygen and the other actually converts the top layer of rust.
Once that’s done and dried off hit those areas with a rattle can topcoat. Let that cure for a few days. Do a final topcoat with fluid film or something similar and then maintain that from there on out. I like CorrosionX HD personally.
I’ve posted the above both here and TacomaWorld a thousand times it seems but it’s worked well for me.
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thanks
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