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Old 09-05-2019, 04:46 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apohl17 View Post
Yeah... guess I didn't see that kind of difference! Whoofta. If you plan on "duning", you likely would want/need adjustment, I concur. Would you be happy with the 2.0's? My guess is yes, but if you are set on features that more expensive suspensions have versus these, well, then, it sounds like you made up your mind already then!
I certainly feel the 2.0 is adequate for most applications, but once you get into faster driving in the desert where you are working the shock a lot more, especially on a hot day, get out of touch one of the shocks. They do become pretty hot, and the added volume of the larger shocks help keep the performance at a more consistent level.

I also feel that the added oil volume just makes things run a bit smoother, at least that’s my perception going from my 5100 to 6112. I suspect the larger shocks also allows for a lower internal operating pressure.

Total Chaos has a new long travel kit that allows the fitment of a 3.0 and is something I am considering as well.

Last edited by Bumbo; 09-05-2019 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:54 PM #17
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I'm a desert / dune guy myself...

Out of all the high end shocks options… it’s the Fox 2.5 RR with DSC adjusters AND high flow piston upgrade I want the most.

King does an amazing job of marketing to the desert crowd and for the longest time wanted a set for myself but the more I learned the more I started leaning towards Fox. For me it was primarily the way the adjustment controls worked. King adjusters only control high speed compression, whereas Fox you have independent adjustment for high speed and low speed compression.

Considering traversing dunes has a lot of low speed compression events, I figured that would really help maximize tuning when driving around and having a lot of weight shift from wheel to wheel.

I am currently running a 6112 but looking to upgrade, they work great until you start to push them harder, specifically in high speed compression events it feels like you blow though the entire shock stroke and it’s easy to bottom out. I don’t think the digressive valving works that great out there, which is another reason I decided against ICON when I upgrade. King and Fox both offer progressive valving, and as shaft speed increases, so does the resistance. Seems to make sense to me.

Unfortunately the Fox shock are the most expensive out of the bunch, but I feel they might be worth it.
I chose to quote a member of whose experiences I am aware and trust. Just a few thoughts:

have only had three outings with the 6112/ICon 2.0 but I did put them through their paces and I think you absolutely nailed it. I did not bottom out but the front becomes bouncy as the stock front used to (at higher speeds) and I did manage to cave in my 3/16 steel front skid in result--and I was not going fast there though surely faster than I could have stock.

Otherwise, I, too, find them fantastic. I don't need/want the high speeds so I will be fine. Mostly. I might eventually try 650 lb springs though ideally one wants stiffer valving and not stiffer springs.

As for the rest:

Accutune: they are awesome, but the short articles should not be taken as the ultimate word on anything. Rather, they are a good start. Shock Surplus also offers good info.

Icon fronts: Thanks to Accutune, I know that my rear Icons are linear on compression and digressive on rebound. They perform better than the 2.65 body 6112s at higher speeds. I have no idea what the Icon fronts are. I have not been able to locate such info. I would not assume that they are a simple digressive shock like the 5100 or presumably the 5160. It has been impossible for me to find detailed 6112 valving info as Bilstein keeps it to themselves. It is digressive but that's all they would say.

Adjusters: from all I have read all adjusters work in one direction, stiffening.

Fox 2.0: I would take the 6112s over any 2.0 coilover which does not mean others cannot be happy with 2.0s. For me, if I am to bother with non-factory style front (and so rebuilds, noises, etc) then I would want the 2.5 performance. And the price difference is small. For the rear, I would rather have 2.5 non resi vs anything else. Unfortunately, 2.5s in the rear don't work with the 6112s because the latter have non-standard shaft (18 vs 22 mm; the 6112 originates in heavy truck shock design). From what the owner of Radflo told me, the rear shocks must not have a larger shaft than the front ones.

Finally, I have learned that it is impossible to predict anything based on the info freely available on the internet. There are too many factors and too much is subjective. I would be afraid to dump 2-4,000 on a setup that I have not already experienced in someone else's vehicle (with an eye on tires and pressures).

My 2c.
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:20 PM #18
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@MAST4R

Be careful with spring rates too… I feel my rear is over-sprung and I don’t like the way it feels because I can tell it’s too stiff.

I’m currently running the OME 2895 (260 #) rear coil which is good for light to medium loads (400lbs or less extra weight). Problem is when I drive in the desert, I’m generally unloaded because I made camp.

Ill bottom out the fronts no problem, but the rear bounces at times, and bucks over bumps. The rebound is pretty aggressive if I hit good compression and the shock do not do a good job of controlling it. I either need to add some permanent weight or change coils.

I’m running the stock 6112 coil which I believe is 600 #, sometimes I feel it could be stiffer, but if the spring rate really is correct, then I need to focus on valving because last thing I need is my fronts to start acting like my rear.

That said, I have to start driving pretty spiritedly to start to dislike things about my suspension. Perhaps it's what keeps me out of trouble because ill back off when the fronts start riding the bump stops. I do for the most part like where its at, I just wish I had some tuning/control over my valving, which really has been the purpose of upgrading. Hopefully the 3rd times the charm.

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Old 09-06-2019, 01:23 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAST4R View Post
I think that's exactly right More speed capability = trouble
Going fast can get you in trouble, but it can also keep you out of it… sometimes in the dunes you HAVE TO go fast because its more dangerous to go slow. Anyone who has spend time in the sand dunes should know momentum can be a valuable tool. With a vehicle like a 4runner, you REALLY have to learn to preserve momentum when driving because we have a heavy vehicle with limited power and traction. If you can’t keep yourself moving you get stuck, and have one hell of a time getting moving again.

I know I drive at the max capacity and capability of my existing suspension… which becomes a problem because it forces you to slow down, perhaps at the wrong time. I want enough suspension to allow for some margin of safety over unforeseen or choppy terrain and give me the headroom to allow me to keep that momentum up.

Real world example here: I wake up in the morning and generally go for a drive… the sand is super smooth, untouched by others and you can just cruise around. Its surprisingly pretty relaxing and leisurely and easy to maintain good speed. You are not even stressing the suspension here and it’s VERY impressive for a basic 6112/5100 combo. By mid-day, after a bunch of ATVs, side-bs-side, and other trucks have made tracks, it’s a totally different story. I can do the same drive and out of nowhere hit a fat section of deep tracks and all hell breaks loose inside the truck. Front suspension is bottoming out, rears bucking like crazy, everything in the back and in the fridge is jumping around. Yes, I’ll slow it down, but if that happens in an area where you need to maintain speed, the pucker-factor is real because you really just have to throttle though it.

What I am looking for out of tuned standard suspension, (or even LT) is safety and headroom. I don’t want to go faster for the sake of going faster, but I want enough performance headroom to deal with things unforeseen in the terrain. The added headroom could be the difference between a costly mistake vs just crapping your pants while the suspension does its job.

I think what excites me most about high end shocks is the tuning capability… at least I feel that is what I am missing right now to really get the most out of my standard suspension. I believe a property setup and tuned suspension has the chance of being greater than the sum of its parts.

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Old 09-06-2019, 01:37 PM #20
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I think this video provides a pretty good example of the type of driving one can do out there… I’ll be completely honest, these guys go harder than me, probably by a pretty reasonable amount too. That said, most people I take for a ride get pretty impressed that a 4Runner can get out there and rip it up in the sand.

Enjoy

YouTube

Last edited by Bumbo; 09-06-2019 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 09-06-2019, 01:47 PM #21
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Anyone know if the Trail Edition came with different springs than a regular 4Runner?
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Old 09-06-2019, 03:49 PM #22
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Anyone know if the Trail Edition came with different springs than a regular 4Runner?
No idea, doubt it, but I would just buy new everything. My lift provided more lift than advertised. At about 175k miles I suspect my stock springs were sagging.

Measured from center of rim/hub to fender

Before lift:
Front – 19”
Rear – 21.25”

After Lift: settled with 20 miles of off-road driving
Front – 22.5”
Rear 24”

Delta:
3.5” up in the front
2.75” up in the rear

My 6112 were setup one notch from the highest position, supposed to yield about 2.75” lift
Rear was OME 2895 – 2” Lift, but I am also a bit light in the rear as it’s a medium load spring.
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Old 09-06-2019, 03:56 PM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumbo View Post
No idea, doubt it, but I would just buy new everything. My lift provided more lift than advertised. At about 175k miles I suspect my stock springs were sagging.

Measured from center of rim/hub to fender

Before lift:
Front – 19”
Rear – 21.25”

After Lift: settled with 20 miles of off-road driving
Front – 22.5”
Rear 24”

Delta:
3.5” up in the front
2.75” up in the rear

My 6112 were setup one notch from the highest position, supposed to yield about 2.75” lift
Rear was OME 2895 – 2” Lift, but I am also a bit light in the rear as it’s a medium load spring.
Yeah might as well, maybe I will try to find some FJ springs. I have a daystar 2.5 1.5 spaces now.
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Old 09-06-2019, 04:08 PM #24
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Originally Posted by CoosTE09 View Post
Yeah might as well, maybe I will try to find some FJ springs. I have a daystar 2.5 1.5 spaces now.
Ur talking about buying 2.5” coil-overs which come with springs. That leaves you having to source rear springs only, but for $175 for a brand new set, why even bother with used unknown condition springs?

If you want something good for the dunes, I would ditch those spacers ASAP.
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Old 09-06-2019, 04:17 PM #25
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Quote:
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Ur talking about buying 2.5” coil-overs which come with springs. That leaves you having to source rear springs only, but for $175 for a brand new set, why even bother with used unknown condition springs?

If you want something good for the dunes, I would ditch those spacers ASAP.
Yes 2.5 in front.
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