User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-20-2020, 01:01 AM #1
rwmille rwmille is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Rome, GA
Posts: 22
rwmille is on a distinguished road
rwmille rwmille is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Rome, GA
Posts: 22
rwmille is on a distinguished road
Need advice with 2006 V6 brake issues

The 2006 4Runner (Sport Edition 4WD 4.0L, 208K miles) I recently purchased is turning out to be quite a bit more problematic than I was led to believe (in my defense I did have a supposedly independent local mechanic do a pre-purchase inspection!), on a variety of fronts. I'm trying to work through the various issues, hopefully without having to spend more than I paid for it, and I could really use some help from the collected wisdom here!

In terms of potential cost, the biggest issue appears to be brake related. The mechanic's pre-purchase inspection did not report any brake-related issues. During my test drive, the vehicle stopped perfectly fine and solidly when applying brakes, but I noticed that while at a stop light, I would have to repeatedly press harder and harder on the brake pedal to keep the vehicle from creeping forward. Seller reported that it had always done this (of course!).

After I got home with the vehicle (out-of-state purchase, 4 hour drive), my local mechanic reported the following potentially brake-related OBD-II codes:
C1223 - Malfunction in ABS Control System
C1249 - Open in Stop Light Switch Circuit

For completeness, the other codes are C1201, P0031, P0051, and B1181: I understand that C1201 is essentially the "master switch code", the P0031 and P0051 codes are related to the upstream O2 A/F sensors (I was actually aware of these codes), and the B1181 code is related to the airbag-possible clockspring assembly issue.

Also for completeness, the following lights are on: MIL (Check Engine), ABS, TSC, VSC, TPMS, and Passenger Airbag.

My mechanic believes the braking issue and the C1223 and C1249 codes are caused by a failing master cylinder assembly, and recommends replacing the entire assembly, which apparently lists for about $3,000. I've read a bunch of related threads on this forum, which largely seem to confirm this diagnosis. Given the rather crazy cost for a new assembly, I am wondering whether I should just go for a used assembly, which I can get for about $450 on EBay (I'm currently checking to see the VIN and mileage of the vehicle this was removed from), or even potentially go the master cylinder piston replacement route (there's a thread suggesting that a 2008 owner successfully used 5th gen part 47026-60090 for this) for $50 on EBay and/or just buying a booster pump motor (EBay, ~$300).

But then I read threads on this site about the C codes above, such as this one and this one, that suggested those codes could potentially be cleared by replacing a brake light switch.

Anyone have any solid advice as to how I should proceed on dealing with the brake issue?

To be clear, I'm not looking to DIY this repair - the work would be done by my mechanic, who is willing to let me obtain parts myself. I just don't have the facility/expertise/confidence and/or time.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
rwmille is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-20-2020, 11:12 AM #2
andynj andynj is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: HOBOKEN
Posts: 34
andynj is on a distinguished road
andynj andynj is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: HOBOKEN
Posts: 34
andynj is on a distinguished road
Personally I would drop the front wheels and check the calipers for frozen pistons and then do full brake flush including the whole procedure to bleed the brake assist and see if it makes any difference. Thats about an hours labor and $10 in brake fluid, it may well not fix it but it's worth a try. When I bought my 07 it had ran and braked fine but when I pulled the calipers 3 of them were frozen, I replaced them with remanufactured units but had to bleed the brake assist several times before it felt right. Before I did that it would creep forward at lights and braking was not great, really grabby.
andynj is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-20-2020, 02:11 PM #3
rwmille rwmille is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Rome, GA
Posts: 22
rwmille is on a distinguished road
rwmille rwmille is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Rome, GA
Posts: 22
rwmille is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by andynj View Post
Personally I would drop the front wheels and check the calipers for frozen pistons and then do full brake flush including the whole procedure to bleed the brake assist and see if it makes any difference. Thats about an hours labor and $10 in brake fluid, it may well not fix it but it's worth a try. When I bought my 07 it had ran and braked fine but when I pulled the calipers 3 of them were frozen, I replaced them with remanufactured units but had to bleed the brake assist several times before it felt right. Before I did that it would creep forward at lights and braking was not great, really grabby.
Thanks. That may be worth a shot! Only issue is that frozen pistons probably wouldn't cause the code, would they?
rwmille is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-20-2020, 06:52 PM #4
AuSeeker AuSeeker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 4,617
Real Name: Skip
AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future
AuSeeker AuSeeker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 4,617
Real Name: Skip
AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwmille View Post
The 2006 4Runner (Sport Edition 4WD 4.0L, 208K miles) I recently purchased is turning out to be quite a bit more problematic than I was led to believe (in my defense I did have a supposedly independent local mechanic do a pre-purchase inspection!), on a variety of fronts. I'm trying to work through the various issues, hopefully without having to spend more than I paid for it, and I could really use some help from the collected wisdom here!

In terms of potential cost, the biggest issue appears to be brake related. The mechanic's pre-purchase inspection did not report any brake-related issues. During my test drive, the vehicle stopped perfectly fine and solidly when applying brakes, but I noticed that while at a stop light, I would have to repeatedly press harder and harder on the brake pedal to keep the vehicle from creeping forward. Seller reported that it had always done this (of course!).

After I got home with the vehicle (out-of-state purchase, 4 hour drive), my local mechanic reported the following potentially brake-related OBD-II codes:
C1223 - Malfunction in ABS Control System
C1249 - Open in Stop Light Switch Circuit

For completeness, the other codes are C1201, P0031, P0051, and B1181: I understand that C1201 is essentially the "master switch code", the P0031 and P0051 codes are related to the upstream O2 A/F sensors (I was actually aware of these codes), and the B1181 code is related to the airbag-possible clockspring assembly issue.

Also for completeness, the following lights are on: MIL (Check Engine), ABS, TSC, VSC, TPMS, and Passenger Airbag.

My mechanic believes the braking issue and the C1223 and C1249 codes are caused by a failing master cylinder assembly, and recommends replacing the entire assembly, which apparently lists for about $3,000. I've read a bunch of related threads on this forum, which largely seem to confirm this diagnosis. Given the rather crazy cost for a new assembly, I am wondering whether I should just go for a used assembly, which I can get for about $450 on EBay (I'm currently checking to see the VIN and mileage of the vehicle this was removed from), or even potentially go the master cylinder piston replacement route (there's a thread suggesting that a 2008 owner successfully used 5th gen part 47026-60090 for this) for $50 on EBay and/or just buying a booster pump motor (EBay, ~$300).

But then I read threads on this site about the C codes above, such as this one and this one, that suggested those codes could potentially be cleared by replacing a brake light switch.

Anyone have any solid advice as to how I should proceed on dealing with the brake issue?

To be clear, I'm not looking to DIY this repair - the work would be done by my mechanic, who is willing to let me obtain parts myself. I just don't have the facility/expertise/confidence and/or time.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwmille View Post
Thanks. That may be worth a shot! Only issue is that frozen pistons probably wouldn't cause the code, would they?
Concerning the codes for your brakes....

"After I got home with the vehicle (out-of-state purchase, 4 hour drive), my local mechanic reported the following potentially brake-related OBD-II codes:
C1223 - Malfunction in ABS Control System
C1249 - Open in Stop Light Switch Circuit"

I do believe replacing the brake switch will solves the issue causing those codes.
Read this linked topic which had the same codes as you have and replacing the brake switch solved the issue causing the codes, the brake switch is relatively cheap and installing it only takes a few minutes and is the most common failure that would throw those codes, well worth trying before trying to replace other more expensive parts.

Help with C1223 & C1249
__________________
2004 Limited V8
AuSeeker is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-21-2020, 05:11 PM #5
RonJR RonJR is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,181
Real Name: Ron
RonJR has a spectacular aura about RonJR has a spectacular aura about RonJR has a spectacular aura about
RonJR RonJR is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,181
Real Name: Ron
RonJR has a spectacular aura about RonJR has a spectacular aura about RonJR has a spectacular aura about
Frozen calipers are a very common problem on 4th gen 4runners, so I would definitely investigate that before diving in further into more expensive stuff. Always check the cheap and easy stuff first.

Any time the CEL (MIL) light comes on, so will the VSC and TRAC lights. The reason is that Toyota can't guarantee proper operation of the dynamic stability system if the engine isn't running properly, so they switch it off.
__________________
2006 Sport Edition, V8, 206K miles, 2.5/1.5" OME lift, SPC adjustable UCA's, 255/75/17 BFG KO2's load range C @ 40psi. Regeared diffs to 4.30, with TrueTrac in rear.

1994 SR5, V6, 5-spd, Aussie locker front, Aisin manual hubs, Truetrac rear, 33/10.50/15 BFG KO's, stock suspension, OBA (Viair 400C), Front Range Offroad twin stick, 225K miles. Dual 2.28 transfer cases, for a 90:1 crawl ratio.
RonJR is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-21-2020, 11:53 PM #6
rwmille rwmille is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Rome, GA
Posts: 22
rwmille is on a distinguished road
rwmille rwmille is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Rome, GA
Posts: 22
rwmille is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuSeeker View Post
Concerning the codes for your brakes....

"After I got home with the vehicle (out-of-state purchase, 4 hour drive), my local mechanic reported the following potentially brake-related OBD-II codes:
C1223 - Malfunction in ABS Control System
C1249 - Open in Stop Light Switch Circuit"

I do believe replacing the brake switch will solves the issue causing those codes.
Read this linked topic which had the same codes as you have and replacing the brake switch solved the issue causing the codes, the brake switch is relatively cheap and installing it only takes a few minutes and is the most common failure that would throw those codes, well worth trying before trying to replace other more expensive parts.

Help with C1223 & C1249 - Toyota 4Runner Forum - Largest 4Runner Forum
Thanks for the reply! I did read that thread, and I totally get that this is an inexpensive fix, but is there any chance that a faulty brake switch is causing the pedal to creep to the floor at a stop light?
rwmille is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-22-2020, 12:57 AM #7
AuSeeker AuSeeker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 4,617
Real Name: Skip
AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future
AuSeeker AuSeeker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 4,617
Real Name: Skip
AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future AuSeeker has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwmille View Post
Thanks for the reply! I did read that thread, and I totally get that this is an inexpensive fix, but is there any chance that a faulty brake switch is causing the pedal to creep to the floor at a stop light?
No there's no chance of the switch causing that, but whatever is causing the pedal to creep wouldn't cause it to throw the C1249 code. IMHO

The switch is an electrical issue, the pedal creep is a hydraulic issue.
__________________
2004 Limited V8

Last edited by AuSeeker; 01-22-2020 at 01:00 AM.
AuSeeker is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-22-2020, 08:21 AM #8
cbailey1523 cbailey1523 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 49
cbailey1523 is on a distinguished road
cbailey1523 cbailey1523 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 49
cbailey1523 is on a distinguished road
As previously stated, your best bet is to go through the system, bleed everything and make sure your calipers are functioning as designed. It takes a while to get all the air out of the system. Check for leaks as well.

It could be the master cylinder. I'm a new T4R owner but I've been working on cars all my life so I'm no stranger to getting my hands dirty. Is the master cylinder a common issue with these? Sucks if it is... "IF" that is the problem I would shy away from buying a used part from eBay. You don't know what you're getting, and if it's a common problem it's probably a ticking time bomb.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
cbailey1523 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-22-2020, 10:26 AM #9
Mantilgh Mantilgh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Maryland
Posts: 158
Mantilgh will become famous soon enough
Mantilgh Mantilgh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Maryland
Posts: 158
Mantilgh will become famous soon enough
Need advice with 2006 V6 brake issues

The VCS/TRAC lights could simply be the gas cap seal. Sounds stupid but it is related some how

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mantilgh is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-23-2020, 04:34 PM #10
rwmille rwmille is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Rome, GA
Posts: 22
rwmille is on a distinguished road
rwmille rwmille is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Rome, GA
Posts: 22
rwmille is on a distinguished road
Thanks to everyone for their helpful input! Based primarily on the continuing pedal creep at stop condition, I've decided to go ahead and get the brake master cylinder assembly replaced with a used unit supplied through my local repair shop that carries a six-month warranty. Cost is about the same as what I could find on EBay, and warranty is better.

I'll be sure to update this thread to let everyone know the extent to which this solves this particular problem.
rwmille is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-23-2020, 07:21 PM #11
JackDuggan JackDuggan is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Virginia
Age: 59
Posts: 16
JackDuggan is on a distinguished road
JackDuggan JackDuggan is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Virginia
Age: 59
Posts: 16
JackDuggan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantilgh View Post
The VCS/TRAC lights could simply be the gas cap seal. Sounds stupid but it is related some how

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Every time I get a fault code those lights come on. I think it's part of the system to get your attention. Once it was the gas cap, and twice it's a P0012 code for my oil control valve.
__________________
2008 V6 RWD SR5
JackDuggan is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-25-2020, 02:34 PM #12
rwmille rwmille is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Rome, GA
Posts: 22
rwmille is on a distinguished road
rwmille rwmille is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Rome, GA
Posts: 22
rwmille is on a distinguished road
UPDATE - All problems solved!

Thanks again for the help from all who chimed in to answer my questions. As promised, here is an update (sorry for the delay). Short answer - all problems solved!

Brake issue (pedal creeps to floor with sustained pressure) and
Code C1223 - Malfunction in ABS Control System.
- Replacing the master brake cylinder assembly with a used one (6 mo warranty) worked. First tried flushing and bleeding; that did not work. Toyota part number is 47025-35070. Part cost: $465.

Code C1249 - Open in Stop Light Switch Circuit.
- Replaced brake light switch using Duralast Stoplight Switch SW7249. Part cost $31.99.

Code B1181 - Open in D Squib (2nd Step) Circuit
- Replaced clockspring assembly (Part 84306-60080) using part purchased from Ebay seller jp-genuine (link: GENUINE TOYOTA LEXUS OEM NEW AIR BAG CLOCK SPRING SPIRAL CABLE 84306-60080 | eBay). Part cost $39.44.

Code P0031 - Oxygen (A/F) Sensor Heater Control Circuit Low (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
Code P0051 - Oxygen (A/F) Sensor Heater Control Circuit Low (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
- Replaced fuse (not sure which one; will ask mechanic). No charge.
Apparently this resolved the above codes, but resulted in a P error code for Bank 1 Sensor 2 (passenger side downstream).
- Replaced Bank 1 Sensor 2 oxygen sensor with Denso Part 234-4260. Part cost $91.99.

- Following the above actions, the C1201 code disappeared, and all the various warning lights also no longer illuminated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwmille View Post
The 2006 4Runner (Sport Edition 4WD 4.0L, 208K miles) I recently purchased is turning out to be quite a bit more problematic than I was led to believe (in my defense I did have a supposedly independent local mechanic do a pre-purchase inspection!), on a variety of fronts. I'm trying to work through the various issues, hopefully without having to spend more than I paid for it, and I could really use some help from the collected wisdom here!

In terms of potential cost, the biggest issue appears to be brake related. The mechanic's pre-purchase inspection did not report any brake-related issues. During my test drive, the vehicle stopped perfectly fine and solidly when applying brakes, but I noticed that while at a stop light, I would have to repeatedly press harder and harder on the brake pedal to keep the vehicle from creeping forward. Seller reported that it had always done this (of course!).

After I got home with the vehicle (out-of-state purchase, 4 hour drive), my local mechanic reported the following potentially brake-related OBD-II codes:
C1223 - Malfunction in ABS Control System
C1249 - Open in Stop Light Switch Circuit

For completeness, the other codes are C1201, P0031, P0051, and B1181: I understand that C1201 is essentially the "master switch code", the P0031 and P0051 codes are related to the upstream O2 A/F sensors (I was actually aware of these codes), and the B1181 code is related to the airbag-possible clockspring assembly issue.

Also for completeness, the following lights are on: MIL (Check Engine), ABS, TSC, VSC, TPMS, and Passenger Airbag.

My mechanic believes the braking issue and the C1223 and C1249 codes are caused by a failing master cylinder assembly, and recommends replacing the entire assembly, which apparently lists for about $3,000. I've read a bunch of related threads on this forum, which largely seem to confirm this diagnosis. Given the rather crazy cost for a new assembly, I am wondering whether I should just go for a used assembly, which I can get for about $450 on EBay (I'm currently checking to see the VIN and mileage of the vehicle this was removed from), or even potentially go the master cylinder piston replacement route (there's a thread suggesting that a 2008 owner successfully used 5th gen part 47026-60090 for this) for $50 on EBay and/or just buying a booster pump motor (EBay, ~$300).

But then I read threads on this site about the C codes above, such as this one and this one, that suggested those codes could potentially be cleared by replacing a brake light switch.

Anyone have any solid advice as to how I should proceed on dealing with the brake issue?

To be clear, I'm not looking to DIY this repair - the work would be done by my mechanic, who is willing to let me obtain parts myself. I just don't have the facility/expertise/confidence and/or time.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
rwmille is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 08:18 AM #13
waypoint's Avatar
waypoint waypoint is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 553
waypoint has a spectacular aura about waypoint has a spectacular aura about waypoint has a spectacular aura about
waypoint waypoint is offline
Member
waypoint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 553
waypoint has a spectacular aura about waypoint has a spectacular aura about waypoint has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwmille View Post
Thanks again for the help from all who chimed in to answer my questions. As promised, here is an update (sorry for the delay). Short answer - all problems solved!
Nice followup and it will no doubt help somebody down the road. Congrats on getting it fixed!
waypoint is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Tags
assembly , brake , codes , issue , related

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help needed with brake issues (multiple issues) Terminator03 4th Gen T4Rs 11 10-17-2018 10:26 PM
2006 V8 AWD limited brake issues sticking caliper Mayhem988 4th Gen T4Rs 0 08-22-2017 06:49 PM
2006 AC issues help!!! kristir77 4th Gen T4Rs 7 07-08-2017 05:04 PM
Advice on paint issues? ChellaBella Classic T4Rs 17 03-19-2013 11:32 PM
Serious Snow Issues 2006 Sport Edition V8 4x4 aeanderson87 4th Gen T4Rs 30 03-15-2013 11:12 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:43 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2020