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Old 03-11-2020, 01:30 AM #1
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New lift and front is too mushy, what options do I have?

Just installed a new lift a week and a half ago or so and had been aligned. It seemed mushy from the start even after alignment. I just installed a new Bull Bar 2 days ago that weighs about 40lbs and became even mushier and seems a little squirrelly on the road and sags a little more in the front. Lift is as follows....

Front-Bilstein 5100’s set at 0, Eibach coils, 1/2” alum. Spacer on driver and 1/4” passenger, new KYB strut top mounts.

Rear-Bilstein 5100’s, ToyTec SuperFlex coils. 275/70/17’s tires with 17x8 0 offset wheels, they rubbed as it was and then even more with bull bar added.

I’d prefer to make it as easy as possible as I don’t want to have to take the front back apart if I can help it. So for options here’s what I can think of.

-Add a notch or two to the front adjustable Bilstein strut
-Add a 1/4” more spacer
-Replace coils with something stiffer, if so what?
-Spring boosters or spring stabilizers- A buddy sent me a link to these and seem like the easiest solution if feasible.

[url=https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sps-24640?seid=srese1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8Mf_qPWQ6AIVmBitBh1INwpTEAQYAyAB EgJwbfD_BwEFree Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing[/url]

[url=https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-1283?seid=srese1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8Mf_qPWQ6AIVmBitBh1INwpTEAQYCyAB EgIhIfD_BwEFree Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing[/url]

Last edited by cwilliams563; 03-11-2020 at 03:07 AM.
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Old 03-11-2020, 10:19 AM #2
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What Eibach springs did you go with? What tires and load did you go with? One of those is probably your issue.

The Boosters are the easiest thing to do. "Easy" isn't usually the way you want to go if you plan on keeping your ride. If you were doing something to sale i would consider. If it were me, fix what you have and do it right. Yes that will mean take the front back apart. Call who you had align and tell them what you thinking about doing, they may realign for free.

I have OME 885 and 5100's set at 0 and its a good solid setup. Again wondering what Eibach's you have. You could try moving the 5100's up to .85, that should stiffen a little. You will have to take the front apart to do that.
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Old 03-11-2020, 12:34 PM #3
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Isn't going to .85 going to lift the front and have no effect on spring stiffness? Not compressing the spring really, just causing it to relocate higher on the shock which will jack up the front. That's the way I understand it.
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Old 03-11-2020, 01:58 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S p a r k y View Post
What Eibach springs did you go with? What tires and load did you go with? One of those is probably your issue.

The Boosters are the easiest thing to do. "Easy" isn't usually the way you want to go if you plan on keeping your ride. If you were doing something to sale i would consider. If it were me, fix what you have and do it right. Yes that will mean take the front back apart. Call who you had align and tell them what you thinking about doing, they may realign for free.

I have OME 885 and 5100's set at 0 and its a good solid setup. Again wondering what Eibach's you have. You could try moving the 5100's up to .85, that should stiffen a little. You will have to take the front apart to do that.
They are the Toytech branded Eibach 112-620 says std./light duty. I guess 620lb springs?
Toytec-Eibach 2.5" Front Lift Coil Springs for 2003-2009 Toyota 4Runner

I have 275/70/17 Falken Wildpeak A/T3W load rating C tires. After we lifted it and drove with the stock tires it felt very similar as it did once I got the new tires on and quite a bit of roll.
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Old 03-11-2020, 02:01 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdruss View Post
Isn't going to .85 going to lift the front and have no effect on spring stiffness? Not compressing the spring really, just causing it to relocate higher on the shock which will jack up the front. That's the way I understand it.
Thatís kind of what I was wondering. Thought maybe it would get it back up a bit higher and possibly stiffen a bit but thinking about it now probably just raising it with no effect on stiffness.
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Old 03-12-2020, 07:28 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilliams563 View Post
They are the Toytech branded Eibach 112-620 says std./light duty. I guess 620lb springs?
Toytec-Eibach 2.5" Front Lift Coil Springs for 2003-2009 Toyota 4Runner

I have 275/70/17 Falken Wildpeak A/T3W load rating C tires. After we lifted it and drove with the stock tires it felt very similar as it did once I got the new tires on and quite a bit of roll.
Hmm, i wouldnt think it would be mushy. tire psi? is your sway bar on? post of pic of shocks and springs installed.
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OME 885's, 1/4" toytec top spacers - 5100's at 0setting - Toytec Superflexes with Daystar 1" rear spacers - Nitto Ridge Grappler 285/70/17 - SCS Gunmetal SR8's - LR UCA's - 20% front - 6000k low's and fogs - LED'd everything- Blacked out head lights - JL Sub and Amp

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Old 03-12-2020, 11:11 PM #7
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If you came from cars or diesel trucks you will find 4th gens mushy especially when stopping. In my opinion OME's with the already owned 5100's are the way I'd go. However there's a caveat. The 5100 is at the ragged edge to control the 886 spring rate during wot acceleration in my 06 V8 with only a hidden 9500lb winch and NO bumper as ft end weight. However all other handling characteristics are phenomenal for daily driving and moderate off road. I will buy a more suitable shock when the 5100's wear out. No signs yet of wear at 40k miles. If you've got a bull bar and lighter V6 I'd go with 885's
Keep in mind this is a quality cost effective fix. If you've got money to burn go get coilovers.
My 2 cents.
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Old 03-13-2020, 06:30 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S p a r k y View Post
Hmm, i wouldnt think it would be mushy. tire psi? is your sway bar on? post of pic of shocks and springs installed.
Tire pressure is about 35psi. I did have an issue on the front passenger side rear sway bar bolt. The threading or Welded nut inside frame broke so the bolt isnít tight, or even close. Only the front bolt is. Would this cause a lot of sway? Maybe Iím confusing body roll with mushy? It acted and felt close to the same with the stock size tires and wheels as it did after new tires and wheels.

I do need to order a new set of sway bar bushings and get a plan to cut a square out of the side of frame, cut bolt and reweld a new one and weld plate back on to frame to get it tight. Maybe thatís the problem? The 2nd pic is of it back with the back bolt not Able to be tightened.

Hereís the only pic I have of the Coilover with the wheel off and we were putting it back together. Took a bit of ďinfluencingĒ to be able to get it sandwiched back together lol.
Attached Images
New lift and front is too mushy, what options do I have?-fe80d494-47a4-403f-966e-86a6d7b1f123-jpg  New lift and front is too mushy, what options do I have?-0b76fe11-3a12-4290-9d71-42a2b568140b-jpg  New lift and front is too mushy, what options do I have?-e0665cbd-74fb-40a6-944e-26c6847ea829-jpg 

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Old 03-13-2020, 11:45 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordhorse View Post
If you came from cars or diesel trucks you will find 4th gens mushy especially when stopping. In my opinion OME's with the already owned 5100's are the way I'd go. However there's a caveat. The 5100 is at the ragged edge to control the 886 spring rate during wot acceleration in my 06 V8 with only a hidden 9500lb winch and NO bumper as ft end weight. However all other handling characteristics are phenomenal for daily driving and moderate off road. I will buy a more suitable shock when the 5100's wear out. No signs yet of wear at 40k miles. If you've got a bull bar and lighter V6 I'd go with 885's
Keep in mind this is a quality cost effective fix. If you've got money to burn go get coilovers.
My 2 cents.
I donít come from diesel trucks, just comparing my truck to before and after lift.

Ok so the OME 885ís with the 5100ís would be a step up for rigidity? Donít have money to burn right now unfortunately for Coilovers but will look into the 885Ēs. would I be better off with a longer travel strut too or will the 5100ís be just fine with the V6 and the WOT youíre talking about?
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Old 03-13-2020, 09:00 PM #10
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32psi is whats posted on the door frame for a 265/65/70 passenger tire. For a c rated tire 275/70 use this metric: LT-Metric Tire Load Inflation Table - TirePressure.com

You well notice a shit ton of improvement.

Last edited by jrm; 03-13-2020 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 03-13-2020, 11:25 PM #11
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When I say diesel trucks it's because most are 3/4 ton or more giving a traditionally stiffer ride. Not the fuel perse. I should've clarified such.
I don't believe a long travel will benefit more than 5100's with 885's, if anything your v6 most likely won't launch as hard as a modified awd V8 in which case won't immediately fully extend strut. You have other things going for you as well in being a V6 is lighter and in theory would be easier for the 5100's to control the higher spring rate of the OME'S.
I went though factory springs, fj springs, and moog springs in the front to remove my mush. This was all after I lowered my ft swaybar to see how that may affect the situation. It didn't. If I was to do it all over I'd go coilovers with a spring rate similar to the 886's
It was a stop gap solution to save money albeit it works quite well.
That being said I'd look up the Eibach spring rate compared to the 885's and make sure it's a substantial increase.

Last edited by fordhorse; 03-13-2020 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 03-23-2020, 12:09 AM #12
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Update

Hey guys thank you for all the help and suggestions. Maybe the front wasn’t as mushy as I had thought. Never had a ride like this and after the front dropped after Bull Bar install I thought it was. It is more like when I hit a bump the front left shock depresses, then the right rear, then left rear, then right front, kind of zig zags and would dance kind of wagging the rear making it squirrelly.

So I started with the rear and replaced the sway bar links with MOOG for a 2nd Gen (1” longer), they were definitely preloaded a decent amount and red energy Ploy rear sway bar bushings and sway bar link bushings. This alone seemed to help quite a bit reducing the sway and stabilising The whole truck a fair amount.

Next drilled out the frame in the front and was able to get a the open end of a wrench on the weld nut that was hidden inside frame. Replaced the weld nut with a regular nut and able to get the box end of a wrench on now. Replaced the front sway bar bushings with red energy Poly and a ToyTec sway bar relocation kit. This helped improve a bit more and reduced sway as well as seemed to tighten the steering response.

JRM, I looked at the metric air chart for inflation but wasn’t able to figure it out. Can someone explain that a little please?
Attached Images
New lift and front is too mushy, what options do I have?-48ce83e1-abbe-4d90-afdc-dd537000ceea-png  New lift and front is too mushy, what options do I have?-40319374-9fd3-416e-a412-90e044b71c76-jpg 

Last edited by cwilliams563; 03-23-2020 at 12:29 AM.
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