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Old 05-21-2020, 08:01 PM #1
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Question New exhaust system for 04 4Runner v8

Hey folks. I've got an 04 4Runner v8 4WD @ 210k miles. I have a cracked manifold (typical cold start ticking), and it's possible a manifold cat is going bad (P0430 code).

I want to get a new exhaust, if not for a bit more power, but to solve any issues that could arise from dying cats or a cracked manifold. After a fair bit of research this is what I came up with for my new exhaust system. I also am putting in a K&N intake 77-9022KP.

Edit: I have updated my parts list to be current as of 6/11/20

PARTS LIST

HEADERS - Doug Thorley THY-564-SS-C Short Tube Headers
UNIVERSAL CATS - QTY 2 - G-Sport #50025
Y-PIPE / REAR CAT - MagnaFlow #93655
CAT-BACK - MagnaFlow #15781 & Vibrant 1141 Resonator
AIR/FUEL RATIO SENSOR - QTY 2 - UPSTREAM - Denso 234-4138
OXYGEN SENSOR - DOWNSTREAM LEFT - Denso 234-4261
OXYGEN SENSOR - DOWNSTREAM RIGHT - Denso 234-4260
MANIFOLD GASKET - QTY 2 - OEM 1717350021
HEADER BOLT KIT - Stage 8 (8919) 10mm Header Bolt Kit

Questions I have..

1. I am unsure if those universal cats can be welded onto the DT headers. They do say they're for "rear". Can they be used as manifold cats, though? The DT's are meant to be welded to the factory cats, so I am wondering if this means I would need to buy the full manifold catalytic converters only to cut off the manifold part?

Edit: I ended up going with the same cats JONBOY345 used: G-Sport #50025

2. Does my vehicle have (2) cats in the rear or (1)? I am pretty sure I have only (1) cat in the rear, as this isn't/wasn't a California car. I recently read that apparently some 4Runners have (2) cats in the rear. It's confusing because I need the (4) total O2 sensors.. or so that is my understanding.

Edit: I have only (1) cat in the rear! See this Walker exhaust diagram that Ed_C posted.

3. Is there any other element of the exhaust system I may be missing? Except for the Y-Pipe, that would still be OEM I assume. I will be taking all the parts to my mechanic who is enlisting the help of his guy who does exhaust. My underbelly has surface rust, as it's been an east coast car it's entire life. Should I provide new nuts/hardware/gaskets? I am really not sure what all is needed because I have limited knowledge when it comes to exhaust systems.

Edit: Yes, there is a "front pipe" that connects from the drivers side cat to the Y-Pipe. I also added OEM Manifold Gaskets and a Stage 8 (8919) 10mm Header Bolt Kit to the parts list.

I would really appreciate any info or advice for my situation
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Last edited by j4x4v8; 06-11-2020 at 07:17 PM. Reason: Updated parts list
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Old 05-21-2020, 10:08 PM #2
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Nice little rabbit hole your about to go down.
First of all, does VA have sniffer or visual tests for emissions? This will dictate if you can use aftermarket CATs and what you can use going forward.

Second, do not buy sensors from bargain sites, there have been boot leg part stories for Denso imitations flooding the market.

3rd use this search parameter and multiple threads will pop up. Type in your question, such as -Doug thorley short tube headers CAT install- and put the red text in after your question.
site:toyota-4Runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/
So it would look like this in the search bar:
Doug Thorley Short tube headers CAT install site:toyota-4Runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/
You can use the text in red to learn anything about your T4R. Read till they bleed is my motto.

I can't answer all of your questions about CATs as I live where there are no inspections and have LT headers. I do think if the CATs you have listed are for the rear, they won't work on the manifolds.
The 2 upstream sensors are actually air/fuel ratio sensors and are technically not o2 sensors, although they look the same and bolt in ahead of the CATs. They read the mixture in real time and send the ECU this information so that it can adjust parameters to the Mass Air Flow sensor so that your engine will have properly mixed fuel and air going into the combustion chamber for ignition. The two down stream sensors are actually the o2 sensors and give the ECU a constant reading of the Catalytic converters state of health and operation.

The rear CATs are really only effective for cold start operation as some pollutants get by the upstream CATs for the first few minutes. Once the system warms up the upstream CATs start to work properly. Unless you have a visual inspection, I think these can be eliminated. Also with headers the flow rate changes and you may have to put spacers on the o2 sensors to get them to read the flow properly and eliminate the CELs that other people have had to deal with, myself included.

And lastly, Get some Visine or Clear Eyes. Hopefully someone else will chime in with a lot more than my limited knowledge of Short Tubes and Good Luck!!
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Old 05-21-2020, 10:31 PM #3
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Thanks for the info man! I made an edit to my original post, looking at a different universal cat which may work better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4RunnerAquasport View Post
does VA have sniffer or visual tests for emissions? This will dictate if you can use aftermarket CATs and what you can use going forward
After a quick Google it appears if my CEL is off, I will pass yearly inspection. I'm not in a county that requires emissions inspections every 2 years, either. I'd like to keep the cats but other than that all I need is no CEL .

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4RunnerAquasport View Post
Second, do not buy sensors from bargain sites, there have been boot leg part stories for Denso imitations flooding the market.
Good to know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4RunnerAquasport View Post
Unless you have a visual inspection, I think these can be eliminated.
That makes sense. I'm worried about if I move to another, non-Cali/NY/Maine state could I get it registered without my rear cat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4RunnerAquasport View Post
Also with headers the flow rate changes and you may have to put spacers on the o2 sensors to get them to read the flow properly and eliminate the CELs that other people have had to deal with, myself included.
Oh boy, what a rabbit hole indeed!!
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Old 05-21-2020, 10:44 PM #4
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'03-'04 exhaust

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Old 05-21-2020, 10:54 PM #5
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http://www.dougthorleyheaders.com/im...INST-REV-C.pdf

The headers already have the sensor bungs. If you're having a Y-pipe made you'll need the bungs for the post-cat O2 sensors, they're easily sourced.
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Old 05-21-2020, 10:58 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_C View Post
http://www.dougthorleyheaders.com/im...INST-REV-C.pdf

The headers already have the sensor bungs. If you're having a Y-pipe made you'll need the bungs for the post-cat O2 sensors, they're easily sourced.
That makes sense with the sensors. Do you know if DT makes a Y-pipe for my 4Runner? Or is that Y-Pipe only for the long tube headers? I was planning to stick with my stock Y-Pipe unless there's a better option. I know Jason Burtman sells the Y-Pipe for the long tube.
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Old 05-21-2020, 11:07 PM #7
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by j4x4v8 View Post
That makes sense with the sensors. Do you know if DT makes a Y-pipe for my 4Runner? Or is that Y-Pipe only for the long tube headers? I was planning to stick with my stock Y-Pipe unless there's a better option. I know Jason Burtman sells the Y-Pipe for the long tube.
Yes DT makes a Y-pipe. The Y-pipe works with the Stock Manifolds. Make sure you specify your year. DT re-did the one for the 03-04 and brought it up higher to Not hang below the Frame.
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Old 05-22-2020, 05:24 AM #8
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@Ed_C and @Az4runnin Thanks for jumping in! This subject takes a village.
There has been several of us who had fitment issues with the DT Y pipe. Mine didn't match up to the drivers side CAT. I think others echoed the same problem. I could not afford Headers at first, so I had the Y installed to the factory Manifold/Cats, and we had to modify the Y to make it work. Then of course when we installed the LTs a year later, we had to modify the Y again lol. But, if you are having Cats welded to the DT ST headers, the installer might be able to mock it all up and weld the CATs to properly mate up to the Y from the get go. Also of note: The upstream sensors (A/F ratio sensors) DO NOT need spacers, just the o2 sensors downstream if the evil CELs show up.

If your worried about moving to a state where you have to go back down the rabbit hole again, this Y pipe might be a better choice because the rear CAT is included, and it's over $100 cheaper than the DT Y.
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Old 05-22-2020, 08:21 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j4x4v8 View Post
Hey folks. I've got an 04 4Runner v8 4WD @ 210k miles. I have a cracked manifold (typical cold start ticking), and it's possible a manifold cat is going bad (P0430 code).

I want to get a new exhaust, if not for a bit more power, but to solve any issues that could arise from dying cats or a cracked manifold. After a fair bit of research this is what I came up with for my new exhaust system. I also am putting in a K&N intake 77-9022KP.

PARTS LIST

HEADERS - Doug Thorley THY-564-SS-C Short Tube Headers
UNIVERSAL CATS - QTY 2 - MagnaFlow #51005
Y-PIPE - Doug Thorley 89253
INTERMEDIATE PIPES, MUFFLER, TAILPIPE - MagnaFlow #15781
CATALYTIC CONVERTER - REAR - MagnaFlow #93655
MANIFOLD GASKET - QTY 2 - OEM 1717350021
OXYGEN SENSOR - QTY 2 - UPSTREAM - Denso 234-4138
OXYGEN SENSOR - DOWNSTREAM LEFT - Denso 234-4261
OXYGEN SENSOR - DOWNSTREAM RIGHT - Denso 234-4260
HEADER BOLT KIT - Stage 8 (8919) 10mm Header Bolt Kit

May need even if I keep cats(?) BLOX Racing Check Engine Light Eliminator Adapter BLO BXFL-00108-SS

Questions I have..

1. I am unsure if those universal cats can be welded onto the DT headers. They do say they're for "rear". Can they be used as manifold cats, though? The DT's are meant to be welded to the factory cats, so I am wondering if this means I would need to buy the full manifold catalytic converters only to cut off the manifold part? ($$$) See Edit

2. Does my vehicle have (2) cats in the rear or (1)? I am pretty sure I have only (1) cat in the rear, as this isn't/wasn't a California car. I recently read that apparently some 4Runners have (2) cats in the rear. It's confusing because I need the (4) total O2 sensors.. or so that is my understanding.

3. Is there any other element of the exhaust system I may be missing? Except for the Y-Pipe, that would still be OEM I assume. I will be taking all the parts to my mechanic who is enlisting the help of his guy who does exhaust. My underbelly has surface rust, as it's been an east coast car it's entire life. Should I provide new nuts/hardware/gaskets? I am really not sure what all is needed because I have limited knowledge when it comes to exhaust systems.

I would really appreciate any info or advice for my situation

EDIT: Just realized the universal cats I bought are 2.5" inlet/outlet and the headers are 2.25". I found this post by @JONBOY345 where he used G-Sport high performance cats. I wouldn't mind getting those, but will that keep my check engine light off? Also how do the O2 sensors attach? I think I'll get MagnaFlow #51065 instead, which are 2.25", and have a spot for O2 sensors. Or do my O2 sensors not attach that way?

EDIT 2: MagnaFlow 99205HM might be the right one after seeing this post, however their model was a 05 v8.
I have an 07, so slightly different engine - but I can give you what I learned when sourcing my parts (I didn't do the install myself).

-Cats - Magnaflow 59956 (2.5" inlet/outlet).
-Blox Spacers - I DID need those to eliminate the check engine light.
-With 210k miles on the east coast, definitely recommend AT LEAST the stage 8 bolt kit that you've mentioned - good piece of mind. That is what I got as well.

Good luck! It was a bit of a pain sourcing the parts and finding someone to install for me, but well worth it in the end!
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Old 05-22-2020, 10:39 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j4x4v8 View Post
Hey folks. I've got an 04 4Runner v8 4WD @ 210k miles. I have a cracked manifold (typical cold start ticking), and it's possible a manifold cat is going bad (P0430 code).

I want to get a new exhaust, if not for a bit more power, but to solve any issues that could arise from dying cats or a cracked manifold. After a fair bit of research this is what I came up with for my new exhaust system. I also am putting in a K&N intake 77-9022KP.

PARTS LIST

HEADERS - Doug Thorley THY-564-SS-C Short Tube Headers
UNIVERSAL CATS - QTY 2 - MagnaFlow #51005
Y-PIPE - Doug Thorley 89253
INTERMEDIATE PIPES, MUFFLER, TAILPIPE - MagnaFlow #15781
CATALYTIC CONVERTER - REAR - MagnaFlow #93655
MANIFOLD GASKET - QTY 2 - OEM 1717350021
OXYGEN SENSOR - QTY 2 - UPSTREAM - Denso 234-4138
OXYGEN SENSOR - DOWNSTREAM LEFT - Denso 234-4261
OXYGEN SENSOR - DOWNSTREAM RIGHT - Denso 234-4260
HEADER BOLT KIT - Stage 8 (8919) 10mm Header Bolt Kit

May need even if I keep cats(?) BLOX Racing Check Engine Light Eliminator Adapter BLO BXFL-00108-SS

Questions I have..

1. I am unsure if those universal cats can be welded onto the DT headers. They do say they're for "rear". Can they be used as manifold cats, though? The DT's are meant to be welded to the factory cats, so I am wondering if this means I would need to buy the full manifold catalytic converters only to cut off the manifold part? ($$$) See Edit

2. Does my vehicle have (2) cats in the rear or (1)? I am pretty sure I have only (1) cat in the rear, as this isn't/wasn't a California car. I recently read that apparently some 4Runners have (2) cats in the rear. It's confusing because I need the (4) total O2 sensors.. or so that is my understanding.

3. Is there any other element of the exhaust system I may be missing? Except for the Y-Pipe, that would still be OEM I assume. I will be taking all the parts to my mechanic who is enlisting the help of his guy who does exhaust. My underbelly has surface rust, as it's been an east coast car it's entire life. Should I provide new nuts/hardware/gaskets? I am really not sure what all is needed because I have limited knowledge when it comes to exhaust systems.

I would really appreciate any info or advice for my situation

EDIT: Just realized the universal cats I bought are 2.5" inlet/outlet and the headers are 2.25". I found this post by @JONBOY345 where he used G-Sport high performance cats. I wouldn't mind getting those, but will that keep my check engine light off? Also how do the O2 sensors attach? I think I'll get MagnaFlow #51065 instead, which are 2.25", and have a spot for O2 sensors. Or do my O2 sensors not attach that way?

EDIT 2: MagnaFlow 99205HM might be the right one after seeing this post, however their model was a 05 v8.

Just wanted to chime in and say that the GESI cats I have are awesome. I had my mechanic weld on a SS 3 bolt flange to the DT Headers and then to the top of the GESI cats as well. So that if in the future for whatever reason I need to replace the cats, it's a simple process.

I did the GESI cats, DT ypipe, and Magnaflow cat back and love it. No check engine lights either...

The GESI cats are pricey, but they'll outlast the truck for sure... Keep your factory parts and sell them to RRcats.com for about $350 back (according to market prices about a month ago when I sent mine out).
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Old 05-22-2020, 11:47 AM #11
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GESI cats are nice, designed for higher HP/performance use YouTube
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Old 05-22-2020, 03:28 PM #12
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Quote:
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GESI cats are nice, designed for higher HP/performance use YouTube
Yep. Definitely overkill for our trucks, but buy once, cry once.
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Old 05-22-2020, 04:44 PM #13
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Thanks everyone for your input! This is helping me tremendously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4RunnerAquasport View Post
@Ed_C and @Az4runnin But, if you are having Cats welded to the DT ST headers, the installer might be able to mock it all up and weld the CATs to properly mate up to the Y from the get go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4RunnerAquasport View Post
If your worried about moving to a state where you have to go back down the rabbit hole again, this Y pipe might be a better choice because the rear CAT is included, and it's over $100 cheaper than the DT Y.
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Wow, that Y pipe you sent is what I already had on my parts list, but because of my limited exhaust knowledge, I thought that it wasn't the same Y-pipe that goes to my upstream cats. I thought it went `Headers -> Upstream Cats -> OEM Y-Pipe -> Some Exhaust Piping -> Rear Cat -> ??`

I don't know what I thought. But this makes so much more sense now. I agree that since I'm trying to not remove any cats I should ditch the DT Y-pipe and use that MagnaFlow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JONBOY345 View Post
The GESI cats are pricey, but they'll outlast the truck for sure... Keep your factory parts and sell them to RRcats.com for about $350 back (according to market prices about a month ago when I sent mine out).
That's great to know! If I don't use the DT Y-Pipe, and use this MagnaFlow #93655 Y-pipe/cat like @4RunnerAquasport mentioned, is it even more pointless to get the GESI cats? Because the Magnaflow cat built into the Y-pipe will act as a bottleneck?

I'm really looking at getting the GESI's, not because I like throwing money away, but because they do seem solid. Like you said, buy once, cry once.
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Old 05-22-2020, 05:29 PM #14
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Originally Posted by j4x4v8 View Post
Thanks everyone for your input! This is helping me tremendously.





Wow, that Y pipe you sent is what I already had on my parts list, but because of my limited exhaust knowledge, I thought that it wasn't the same Y-pipe that goes to my upstream cats. I thought it went `Headers -> Upstream Cats -> OEM Y-Pipe -> Some Exhaust Piping -> Rear Cat -> ??`

I don't know what I thought. But this makes so much more sense now. I agree that since I'm trying to not remove any cats I should ditch the DT Y-pipe and use that MagnaFlow.



That's great to know! If I don't use the DT Y-Pipe, and use this MagnaFlow #93655 Y-pipe/cat like @4RunnerAquasport mentioned, is it even more pointless to get the GESI cats? Because the Magnaflow cat built into the Y-pipe will act as a bottleneck?

I'm really looking at getting the GESI's, not because I like throwing money away, but because they do seem solid. Like you said, buy once, cry once.
OK I think I was wrong about the cost, sorry about that. There doesn't seem to be ANY cheap alternatives to do this legally. And it appears there are 4 CATs total on our trucks I just couldn't remember. @doofenshmirtz put the magnaflow rear CATs on his with the LT headers. His post is linked below. You would still have to have the primary CATs welded on your STs to be compliant. Like I said Read till they bleed lol. You should give Magnaflow a call and make sure of all this before pulling the trigger.
https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3414058-post28.html
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Old 05-22-2020, 07:14 PM #15
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I believe doof has a '05-on, OP's stock system has a single cat after the Y instead of one each after the manifolds.

Here's the breakdown using Walker exhaust parts...



The universal replacement for that Y-pipe converter is a the same ones Walker uses for their 05-on Y, except it uses two.
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