The following appears today in "The Truth About Cars"

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3945

The guy didn't mention towing ability compared to unibody SUV's. The reason I bought the runner was to tow a boat and haul camping gear on moderate trails. I never expect a vehicle to be great off road in stock form.

That editorial was pretty spot on IMO. Compared to the older 4runners the newer models have become more road friendly and less off road savy. But I still feel if you know how to drive the new 4runners will be able to get you there...

Some people want everything for nothing...

Toyota had to make the changes to the 4Runner to stay competitive in this space. The changes they made affect hard-core offroaders mostly, not 99% of the drivers out there. For the 99% of the people who do light off-roading and mall runs, this generation 4Runner is the safest, most comfortable, fuel efficient, and evironmentally friendly of any generation 4Runner. If you are doing hard-core offroading, you are going to mod the vehicle no matter what. Like everything in life, Toyota had to make some compromises to push forward.

Personally I think they have too many SUV's in the stable though... Highlander and Rav4 seemed to be very close in size and capability. LandCruiser and Sequoia seem to be competing for the same space.
4Runner and FJ seem to have their own space to themselves.

I really didn't care for the review. It is true that the 4th gen is a bit less off-road capable (bigger, lower, etc.), but Toyota is definately catering to the needs of the majority here (like what boston kevin was saying). How many lifted, locked, ARB'd 4th Gen 4Runners do you see compared to normal stock ones with A/S tires or 20" rims? 100:1?

However, I do wish that Toyota would make an Off-Road package available for the 4Runners. They need a 4-door SUV that has a locker, higher clearance and maybe manual? (no, FJ doesn't count. They're like a 2+2 SUV, not a 4-door).

Plus where does he get off saying that 18/22 mpg is horrible? I can't think of another SUV that gets that kind of a mileage with a V6. Does he expect 30mpg? Go buy a Rav4...

Ditto.

I like my 4Runner just the way it is. I bought it because of Toyota's excellent quality, the great features of the 4Runner, and man, it's just friggin cool. Mine will never see real "off roading", and as far as I can tell, probably at least 90% or more of the 4Runners sold will never be used like they were originally designed to be used. That's probably why Toyota lessened it's offroad abilities, and increased it's creature comforts, to appeal to more SUV buyers. If'n I need to do something off road, I have a Dodge Ram, a flatbed trailer, and a John Deere 4600 Power Reverser tractor with loader and 4WD that will get me anywhere LOL. Shame is, that damn tractor costs nearly as much as the 4Runner.....

And even then, real world mileage isn't a massive difference between it and the smaller SUVs.

As pointed out in this thread (http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showth...threadid=28581), there is not as much compromise in off-road ability as people think. Yes, there a few advantages of 3rd gen, but then again, the 4th gen also has some advantages as well. It really comes down to what you need. For me, after owning a 3rd gen and driving the 4th gen on several occasions, i prefer the 4th gen because it is a hell a lot better on-road than ever before where i spend more time. I can fix most of the issues with the 4th gen aftermarket. You cannot say the same about the 3rd gen's deficits.

Wait til the 5th gen Runner and we'll be looking at how much more off road capable 4th gens are.

The FJs a success and is selling to it's target audience and I think the next Runner will be even closer to a glorified station wagon because of it.

Even look around at the 4Runners here on this forum that are 4wd but are rolling on 22"s and don't think Toyota doesn't see that. The next Runner will have available 20" rims thus firming it's place on paved roads.

I'd love a 4th gen but I'd have more issues with those off- road "oops" than I do with my 3rd gen. 4th gens are almost too nice and just don't deal with mud and crap in the interior as well an any other 4Runner.

I'd love to challenge a stock 4th gen (ok,bigger tires would be needed) vs my stock,save for tires, '99 just on a simple trail to show the differences and really see.

Slaughterhouse outside Denver is a stock friendly trail and I'd love a little fun camparison. I know ther's a couple of 4th gens that would do the trail but I'm not sure if one of them has even received his '07 yet.

I'll have to organize a little T4R.org local run and get some local comraderie on this board.

"In other words, the 4Runner is now a refined, rugged looking, long-legged station wagon that gets miserable gas mileage."

He has a few good point but after everything he *****ed about the statement above could be applied to just about every mid-sized SUV on the road.

And the gas mileage comment is just laughable. The 4runner's mpg is about as good as it gets in this category.

RonMAIDEN, not trying to discredit your 3rd gen, i am trying to be fair on all sides.

What are your issues?? The lack of rear locker?? The lower front clearance?? Size??

Well, 4th gens have ATRAC, which works on ALL 4 wheels. Your 4runner has a rear locker only, which is an excellent tool to have off-road, but your front diff is still open. Therefore, the advantage of a rear locker vs. ATRAC on all 4 wheels is present over some terrain but it's not like a big big gap in capability.

Since the 4th gens come with ATRAC, it has a superior ABS system, 4-channel vs. your 3-channel. Thus, on-road safety and arguably off-road braking are improved. And as you know, on-road handling and safety on the 4th gen far exceed that of 3rd gen, esp. with stability control, better crash testings, and available airbags everywhere.

The front clearance is a real issue on 4th gen. But this "mishap" is easily fixable with a mild lift up front (1" spacer or such). But, if you're comparing stock vs. stock, then you're right about this.

As for size, i don't think that the 4runner is any bigger than your average midsize SUV. The 3rd gen was too darn narrow for a midsize SUV...thus, it makes the 4th gen look like a pig in comparison. I am sure that 4th gens will fit into all the Colorado trails with only a bit more brush rash than a 3rd gen. Not a big deal...it comes with the sport.

And as stated in the link above, if i were to play in mud or do water fording, then i much prefer the 4th gen over 3rd gen. I did not like drum brakes on my 3rd gen. Sure, it is low maintenance...if you never take it off-road. In mud, i definitely prefer all-around disc brakes. And yes, you can clean it out (like what RonM has been doing every 6 months), but eventually, rust will get you.

And if i remember correctly, the 4th gen 4runner can do a bit more side slope and hill gradient than a 3rd gen. This should provide a bit more stability off-road.

As for the 4runner being "too nice," i am not sure if this is an argument at all. Can't handle mud in the interior as well??? Huh? If a person has the balls to wheel a 4runner, then it's going to be a dirty affair in ANY 4runner. You can't blame Toyota or 4th gen for being more civilized! The 3rd gens were not exactly luxurious in anybody's mind. And although the cargo volume was impressive (due mostly to height of cabin rather than width), the passenger space was rather tight (very narrow). The competition was catching up earlier this decade...and Toyota needed a roomier and more comfy SUV. I do feel that the interior quality of material did go down a bit with the 4th gen. The 3rd gen material quality was very impressive...you can't find a poor quality plastic anywhere. But, you have to see where Toyota had to make some compromise while making a better vehicle overall.

In conclusion, a 4th gen off-road capability can be easily improved upon cheaply to match any 3rd gen 4runner. However, the opposite cannot be said about modifying a 3rd gen to be as safe, comfy, and roomy as a 4th gen.

My dream 4th gen: ARB rear locker with air compressor, 1" spacer lift in front (for looks mostly and bit more clearance), 32" AT or MT tires, extend rear axle breather tube, and frame-bolted rock sliders. The beauty of this is that the ARB rear locker will provide rear traction, while ATRAC will work the front axle for traction. This will be one impressively capable rig IMHO. I like what Toyota did to the 4th gen's appearance in 2006 (love LED taillights and round wheel arches).

Or, i would get my 2002 white pearl 4runner back (damn, i miss that thing; that color was so special) from my friend and modify it with similar stuff above, but of course, without the spacer lift. I had already did the rear axle breather mod and bigger tires when i sold it to him. It was a very nice 3rd gen.

A lot of interesting replies. FWIW it looks like I'll be buying a new one next summer as our retirement/travel vehicle. Got my wife to sit in a new one tonite and she really liked it better than the Highlander. Woo-Hoo!!.
Probably will never do any serious off-roading but want to feel comfortable going off road on our trips out west. If her 2002 Camry is any indicator we can look forward to years of trouble driving.
Am really looking forward to it.

Hey,it looks like a couple of 4th gen guys from here are going to hit a simple trail and I plan on some pics to compare the two off road.
This is a stock vs stock comparison and I'll give a little leeway to the 4th gens due to the slightly smaller tires.
Yes,3rd gens are a bit "skinny" compared to a 4th gen and that does make a diff on our trails since even another inch wider can be a diff between a "scratch" and a "dent". I've also got the perfect hill to compare ATRAC vs rear locker too. I doubt the diffs will be that great but I'm curious to see 'em.

Did 4th gens lose the "oh,sh*t" handles up front?

4th gens on road are so many light years ahead (which they should be) of a 3rd gen there is no agument there. I plan on doing a rear disc swap by next year so that will help braking quite a bit since 3rd gens really lack solid braking from high speeds.

Don't forget to factor in Dunlops vs. Nitto TG...that is another advantage for you.