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Old 08-10-2020, 09:07 PM #1
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Unhappy Power Problem - Help!

Gentlemen,

'07 V8 Limited 225k - Owner 14 years now.

Problem: No power

Conditions: 85 degrees and over, a/c on, average drive 7 miles, 5x a day.

I know the summer is rough on this truck with the a/c running and sometimes even the fan fully engaged.

But I know this vehicle well and this is different.

This is a depress accelerator down steadily, continuing to depress until way passed normal waiting for acceleration to happen, wondering if rpm's are ever gonna get up, usually "she never needs more than 3k to go anywhere i need, highways ramps ect.. however this passes 3k, 4k rpm and still not impressed. (No fan roar during this btw)

At first I thought air is hot coming in, mas airflow, heat soak ect.. ect...

But then today a hot 94 degree day, drove to the office after and hour of around town work, nice and toasty, parked for 3.5hrs, go to leave, jump in, start to pull out of the parking lot, i need to make a sharp right, and go up and overpass immediately, then around the on ramp and onto the highway that requires a good long hard straight push to get up to speed.

I make the right out of the lot with what felt like normal power, until the 1st shift and "bog city" I hung in there over and onto the ramp (thinking wtf was that) go around and launch her from almost a stop, she kept the rpms climbing with a lot of throttle applied, but no where near normal.

No codes thrown

At the time;

Trans temp 138.1
Coolant 194.0
Volts at ecm 13.2
Cat 1,368
Intake 95
Almost full tank Mobil 93

Pretty cool compared to what she runs at in a 95 degree day normally, just got outta the lot stats.

After my trip, 30mins, I check the temp of all 4 rims by feeling, incase maybe had a stuck caliper, all warm but no one different than the other.

So who wants to take a guess?

1. Throttle, maf, intake, ect..
2. Tranny, 2nd gear, old, slip...
3. Fuel delivery....
4. Sensors....

Where to even start...

Thanks in advance..

Tonedog
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Old 08-10-2020, 09:17 PM #2
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So rpm goes up but mph does not as would be expected?
If that's what you are saying it sounds like trans to me.
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Old 08-10-2020, 09:26 PM #3
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I'd add that I feel like I detected previously some slight surging or better engagement/lock/power after 2800 rpm...

Could maybe it be a worn torque converter?

Is that a thing with these...
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Old 08-11-2020, 10:27 AM #4
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Sounds similar to when my transmission went
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Old 08-11-2020, 03:01 PM #5
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To me it sounds like a transmission issue, but I am definitely no mechanic. Just sounds like an issue I had with a previous vehicle. I’ll ask a couple buddies of mine and see what they say.


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Old 08-12-2020, 06:05 AM #6
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Start by changing the plugs. I have three F 225 Yamaha 4 strokes and when an engine "bogged" I changed the plugs and fix the issue - and got 59000 RPMs (before 5000 rpms). Had this issue several times with Yamahas. Changing plus solved the issue.

4runner 2005 SR5 144,000 miles - runs like a champ/new. original owner

Use iridium plugs

After plugs I'd look for fuel issue - filter block - fuel pump failing (always buy OEM), vacuum leak?

Find a top mechanic to diagnose with good testing equipment.

Last edited by Captsolo; 08-12-2020 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 08-12-2020, 07:46 PM #7
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cat? catalytic converter? that temp is extremely high if thats the case.
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Old 08-13-2020, 12:31 AM #8
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Question

Plugs changed with dealer denso iridium last year, could still give em a check.

Catalytic is a good one, could be. I'll have to look up how to check em. I do notice they run at idle around 900ish but as soon as I start to drive they shoot up to 1400/1500, then if I stop and hang they will cool pretty fast down and then will go up fast the minute I'm on the throttle. Does this indicate a problem? What is normal at lets say 55mph cruising?

I have some more i fo on the problem to share.

For the last 2 days I have not had the issue because I have not used the a/c in a specific way (I'll get to it) then today I decided to duplicate my initial problem and I was able to exactly.

Here is what I found.

If I start engine with a/c off and use on highways only I'm good to go. If I start up (not 1st of the day) with a/c on it happens.

Leaving work i started with a/c, pulled up to the apron of the lot to make my right turn and go up the inclined over pass, I let a bunch of cars pass, i make the turn and get on it, it totally bogged. It couldn't get the rpm's up fast enough, like between idle and 1900rpm after 2k it felt better.

Now the previous 2 days with no ac I was watching out for any shifting funniness and nothing, she pulls hard in every gear and shifts nice. Of coarse she's not the same as when she has 30k on her!

She's rated over 7k tow with the big hitch, imagine i made that turn with ac on and a 5k trailer! LOL I would been in serious trouble!

How does one check fuel pump, system ect..?

I run the 93 octane every tank for years, because I like the power and have had some rattling from detonation at high rpms for about 8 years, I wonder is she being retarded (timing) under the load of ac, hot, incline, 225k, cause of a major ping/rattle?

Oh god this is drive me nuts. My mind is rolling with ideas now!! I could keep typing forever, let me stop.

Best
T
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Old 08-13-2020, 01:01 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TONEDOG513 View Post
Plugs changed with dealer denso iridium last year, could still give em a check.

Catalytic is a good one, could be. I'll have to look up how to check em. I do notice they run at idle around 900ish but as soon as I start to drive they shoot up to 1400/1500, then if I stop and hang they will cool pretty fast down and then will go up fast the minute I'm on the throttle. Does this indicate a problem? What is normal at lets say 55mph cruising?

I have some more i fo on the problem to share.

For the last 2 days I have not had the issue because I have not used the a/c in a specific way (I'll get to it) then today I decided to duplicate my initial problem and I was able to exactly.

Here is what I found.

If I start engine with a/c off and use on highways only I'm good to go. If I start up (not 1st of the day) with a/c on it happens.

Leaving work i started with a/c, pulled up to the apron of the lot to make my right turn and go up the inclined over pass, I let a bunch of cars pass, i make the turn and get on it, it totally bogged. It couldn't get the rpm's up fast enough, like between idle and 1900rpm after 2k it felt better.

Now the previous 2 days with no ac I was watching out for any shifting funniness and nothing, she pulls hard in every gear and shifts nice. Of coarse she's not the same as when she has 30k on her!

She's rated over 7k tow with the big hitch, imagine i made that turn with ac on and a 5k trailer! LOL I would been in serious trouble!

How does one check fuel pump, system ect..?

I run the 93 octane every tank for years, because I like the power and have had some rattling from detonation at high rpms for about 8 years, I wonder is she being retarded (timing) under the load of ac, hot, incline, 225k, cause of a major ping/rattle?

Oh god this is drive me nuts. My mind is rolling with ideas now!! I could keep typing forever, let me stop.

Best
T

So, this happens only when the A/C is On?
If you’re driving with A/C Off all is well?
If you then turn A/C On it bogs down?
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Old 08-13-2020, 01:20 AM #10
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@ Electroboy

Yes with ac on.
Kind of slow to accelerate without (just thought it was old age)
In general there has always been a huge loss in power with a/c on.
But the bog is different, it could get me in an accident entering a highway for example.
Maybe its happening without also but just that the ac being on makes it more obvious.
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Old 08-13-2020, 01:21 AM #11
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Question

I'm searching and searching everywhere to find an average catalytic temp for 4runner....

Tough to find.

Anybody can check it would be great.

Best
T
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Old 08-13-2020, 01:31 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TONEDOG513 View Post
@ Electroboy

Yes with ac on.
Kind of slow to accelerate without (just thought it was old age)
In general there has always been a huge loss in power with a/c on.
But the bog is different, it could get me in an accident entering a highway for example.
Maybe its happening without also but just that the ac being on makes it more obvious.
Could the A/C compressor itself be the problem? Maybe the bearings are shot and seized up. This could put a huge load on the engine.
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Old 08-13-2020, 09:56 AM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectroBoy View Post
Could the A/C compressor itself be the problem? Maybe the bearings are shot and seized up. This could put a huge load on the engine.
Was just thinking the same thing after reading all your posts. If the issue only happens when the A/C is turned on, i would look for something with the compressor possibly causing it...
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Old 08-13-2020, 12:43 PM #14
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A/C compressor bearings seized you would burn up the serp belt wouldn't you, or the compressor clutch would kick in (?) and you wouldn't notice except no A/C?
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Old 08-13-2020, 02:41 PM #15
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Reading through the replys, I'd love to speculate:

I don't think any of the front pulleys on the accessories could be the problem, as someone mentioned the serpentine belt would probably get eaten long before it produce the kind of power loss we're talking about. And the bearing, if rotating at all, would SCREAM BLOODY MURDER while being rotated.

The emissions related elements are generally very sensitive to throwing codes. Almost anything even a smidgen out of normal and it'll throw a code. So clogged cat, that sort of thing, I'd assume would produce a code?

Now maybe fouled plugs won't throw a code... but I had a coil pack that was full of water and it just didn't run great, but moved the truck along pretty well still. But interestingly did not throw a code. But for bad plugs to cause that sort of power loss? That'd be odd. Does it soot really badly out the tailpipe after being hard on the throttle?

I'm very much leaning towards a transmission issue, as others have mentioned. Seems the ECU knows alot more about what the trans is doing and problems it may have than the check engine light codes display. I think a selenoid has to completely fail for a CEL to turn on. All my transmission problems never produced a check engine light, and they were pretty bad at various points; except for when a solenoid completely failed and put the truck into limp mode... obviously because the truck couldn't get past 3rd gear.

Because the A750 (the V8 trans) is so similar to all the A-series transmissions, which have a lineage going back to the mid 80's, many transmission shops have a lot of experience with them. It might be worth a few phone calls to shops and see what they tell you.

At the end of the logic train, I really can't think of something engine related that would cause that sort of massive power loss that doesn't throw an engine code. Maybe fuel pump? But wouldn't that cause lean errors? All rotating assembly items are good otherwise it would have exploded by now. MAF? Maybe? They're surprisingly cheap for a Toyota MAF, so maybe worth a try... but again, that's emissions related so I'd expect a CEL code if there was a problem.

I love a good speculation and look forward to seeing your problem resolved (hopefully inexpensively as well). Best luck!

Last edited by Keros; 08-13-2020 at 02:45 PM.
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