06-11-2021, 09:28 AM
|
#1
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Swampy and Sunny
Posts: 212
|
|
Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Swampy and Sunny
Posts: 212
|
Hard hitting on bumps
I purchased new michelins yesterday and as expected (with higher air pressure) they ride little hard and did before to a degree. My question is will deleting the existing XREAS and replacing just the shocks give me a noticeably better, smoother ride without replacing springs? What is it like to drive it after deleting the XREAS, is there a lot of body roll? My preference would be smoother ride much more than offroad.
Bounce test is useless as I can't get it to compress much.
04 sport 4wd
Daily driver
rarely offroad but once in a while I do
I carry some weight inside SUV but do not tow.
Original shocks and springs.
Thanks for any insight.
__________________
NATO Seasparrow Mk 57 Mod 2 & 3
2004 4th Gen Sport Edition
Last edited by Seasparrow; 06-11-2021 at 09:33 AM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-11-2021, 09:41 AM
|
#2
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,120
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,120
|
I am not 100% sure but I have read on this forum that the XREAS springs are not the same as the ones that come with the standard suspension on the sr5. Depending on what you are deleting the XREAS for your ride may be similar or worse or better. something like a bilstein 5100 I've read is close to XREAS
is your XREAS leaking or are you replacing just to replace then? XREAS is supposed to make the 4runner handle on road better than a stock suspension
depending on how many miles you have on the truck if you were doing an XREAS delete it might be worth getting new springs and coils for front and back, you will have to take everything apart down there anyway to install the new suspension
If you want a smooth ride on road and your XREAS is functioning just fine I'd say keep it, that's what it's designed for
__________________
A mistake that makes you humble is much better than an achievement that makes you arrogant
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-11-2021, 10:19 AM
|
#3
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: So Cal
Posts: 26
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: So Cal
Posts: 26
|
I just replaced the XREAS on my 2008 Limited, but I can't really say what specific impacts are due to just replacing with shocks (also replaced the RAS).
I haven't been cornering fast, but expect some more body roll since I did a 3" lift and increased my tire diameter by 4". I can't do a full range of steering yet because the tires rub about 60-70% of the way to full lock (getting the BMC done today). It's also riding pretty "lively" at the moment because I've still got about 400-500lb of armor/winch weight to put on before my build is done.
There's a good chance your prints could be somewhat worn on a 2004, especially if it's high miles or has done a lot of hauling/towing. Getting new springs along with shocks probably wouldn't be a bad idea with the XREAS delete
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-11-2021, 11:22 AM
|
#4
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: iowa
Posts: 905
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: iowa
Posts: 905
|
why is there higher air psi? tires should be inflated to the psi for the vehicle, not to the max psi on the sidewall of the tire. unless you are towing with heavy weight or off roading & need more/less tire psi, the factory psi will give the best ride comfort & tire wear.
removing the xreas will have a little more body roll on hard corners if it was in good shape, but a good replacement shock will still corner & handle very good. a cheap/easy fix to improve body roll is to use poly sway bar bushings.
i used KYB shocks front/rear when i removed teh xreas on my 08 4runner, they have ~10% stiffer springs in front & 10% tighter valving in the shocks, they handle & ride very nice, i intend to get poly bushings but for 95% street use i havent really felt the need yet.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-11-2021, 11:38 AM
|
#5
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Swampy and Sunny
Posts: 212
|
|
Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Swampy and Sunny
Posts: 212
|
Thanks for the answers.
They inflated them to 35, I have not fiddled with them yet I am going to have to do that. My previous duelers I kept at 30 and they rode fairly good. I think the max on the michelins are 44psi. Did you have/replace the shocks with struts, or do KYB's come with spring, I am unfamiliar with them. Some say new tires need a break in period. They are just a little bouncy, stiff, but my 4runner was anyway. I know shocks can get floaty when worn but my suspension is stiff over bumps, they kind of pound the car.
P.S. they said they inflated to 35 on paperwork but they (sam's club) were all over the place, 40rf, 37rr, 35lr, 42rf. I dropped them all to 35
__________________
NATO Seasparrow Mk 57 Mod 2 & 3
2004 4th Gen Sport Edition
Last edited by Seasparrow; 06-11-2021 at 12:43 PM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-11-2021, 01:12 PM
|
#6
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: North Bay, ON, Canada
Posts: 1,632
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: North Bay, ON, Canada
Posts: 1,632
|
The recommended tire pressure for a 2004 Toyota 4Runner is 32 psi.
__________________
2011 Limited 4WD with NAV: "CDN Package" (running boards, mud guards, all-weather mats, cargo liner, block heater).
Summer: Michelin Defender LTX 245/60R20 on OEM Limited 20" rims / Winter: Toyo Observe GSi-5 265/70R17 on 2018 TRD Off-Road 17" rims.
Previous: 2003 4Runner Limited 4WD V8; 1997 Lexus LS400; 1997 Camry CE; 1988 Celica Turbo 4WD; 1982 Celica GT
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-11-2021, 01:26 PM
|
#7
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Swampy and Sunny
Posts: 212
|
|
Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Swampy and Sunny
Posts: 212
|
I think it is probably more correct to follow michelin guidelines than toyota at this point. But Toyota manual says minimum cold 32.
.
.
__________________
NATO Seasparrow Mk 57 Mod 2 & 3
2004 4th Gen Sport Edition
Last edited by Seasparrow; 06-11-2021 at 01:42 PM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-11-2021, 03:37 PM
|
#8
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 488
|
|
Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 488
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seasparrow
I purchased new michelins yesterday and as expected (with higher air pressure) they ride little hard and did before to a degree. My question is will deleting the existing XREAS and replacing just the shocks give me a noticeably better, smoother ride without replacing springs? What is it like to drive it after deleting the XREAS, is there a lot of body roll? My preference would be smoother ride much more than offroad.
Bounce test is useless as I can't get it to compress much.
04 sport 4wd
Daily driver
rarely offroad but once in a while I do
I carry some weight inside SUV but do not tow.
Original shocks and springs.
Thanks for any insight.
|
How may miles on it?
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-11-2021, 04:15 PM
|
#9
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: iowa
Posts: 905
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: iowa
Posts: 905
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seasparrow
Thanks for the answers.
They inflated them to 35, I have not fiddled with them yet I am going to have to do that. My previous duelers I kept at 30 and they rode fairly good. I think the max on the michelins are 44psi. Did you have/replace the shocks with struts, or do KYB's come with spring, I am unfamiliar with them. Some say new tires need a break in period. They are just a little bouncy, stiff, but my 4runner was anyway. I know shocks can get floaty when worn but my suspension is stiff over bumps, they kind of pound the car.
P.S. they said they inflated to 35 on paperwork but they (sam's club) were all over the place, 40rf, 37rr, 35lr, 42rf. I dropped them all to 35
|
35psi isnt too bad & you wont notice much difference in harshness with 3psi over the toyota stated psi. be sure to check the tires when cool & no sun shining on any of them, a hot tire can read quite a bit more than a cool one. rule of thumb is ~1psi/10*f. i thought maybe you went closer to the 44 max psi that would cause a harder ride. tires dont really need a break in, aside from maybe 5-10 miles to wear off any oils or residue from the mold when making them.
4runners dont have struts, the fronts are just a coil over shock, rears are standard shocks. yes the KYB come with new springs on the fronts & that is one of the reasons they are such a good deal at ~$100ea front & $50ea rear. the stock rear springs usually dont wear out unless lots of heavy towing or other abuse. the KYB also will give a little bit of a lift on the front over stock, about 1" which will help get closer to a level stance & help clear a one size bigger 275/70/17 tire that most guys step up to.
keep in mind 4runners are a heavy duty SUV built on a solid truck frame with solid rear, they will never ride like a cadillac or modern car but decent quality new shocks should improve the ride as much as possible.
some guys also use toyota OEM shocks pulled from low mile tacoms & 4runners & can usually be found for good prices.
Last edited by firebirdguy; 06-12-2021 at 11:19 AM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-11-2021, 04:22 PM
|
#10
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: iowa
Posts: 905
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: iowa
Posts: 905
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seasparrow
I think it is probably more correct to follow michelin guidelines than toyota at this point. But Toyota manual says minimum cold 32.
|
the only guidelines from michelin is the max psi rating of 44psi & that should really never be used for any normal driving & will make the tire wear very unevenly. stick with toyotas recommendation for any normal tire, you can play with the psi a bit if you want to improve the ride some but lower psi hurts mpg & higher hurts tire wear.
my 4runner rides great on 32-35psi & the tires are wearing almost perfectly even.
Last edited by firebirdguy; 06-12-2021 at 11:21 AM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-11-2021, 05:04 PM
|
#11
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 488
|
|
Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 488
|
If you have more than 50,000 miles on your OEM shocks, they are starting to degrade pretty quickly, but you won't notice the difference until you put new ones in since it's been a gradual decline in performance.
Getting back to your new tires, it would be interesting to compare weights with your old tires. Adding weight - specifically un-sprung weight - to shocks that are already tired will magnify the lack of dampening.
Finally, what model of Michelin tire did you install? Are they LT rated by chance? If so, they're automatically going to ride harsher and weigh more.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-11-2021, 06:26 PM
|
#12
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: AZ
Posts: 1,382
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: AZ
Posts: 1,382
|
If replacing all shocks, maybe also consider replacing the springs.
If the springs are shorter due to age/sagging, the vehicle is essentially lowered which compresses the shocks and if the shocks have less uptravel, harshness will follow.
--32 is better than 35 on SL/P-metric tires since that is what Toyota says anyway, 35 may provide minor handling improvement.
--LT should not be used at less than 35 and would result in harsher ride on stock or other weak or worn shocks, but in better ride with an offroad/stiffer suspension.
Again, if those 17 year old springs are significantly shorter than they used to be, I would personally replace them.
__________________
2018 TRD OP non-kdss, well armored, well used
(6112s/650lb at 1.25"-1.5" lift, 8100 rear with Bilstein B12 1.5" springs, Mickey Thompson ATZ P3 LTE 265 70 17, RCI set of front 3/16 skids, Shrockworks step sliders and 3/16 steel gas tank skid, C4Fab rear diff skid, Rockmen rear LCAs, Total Chaos rear LCA bracket skids, Diode Dynamics SS3 white fog lights).
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-12-2021, 08:54 AM
|
#13
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Swampy and Sunny
Posts: 212
|
|
Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Swampy and Sunny
Posts: 212
|
To answer some questions,
163,000 miles
Michelin XLT A/S which is the exact same as LTX MS but is sold in club stores
like Costco, sams, BJ's etc.
The weights are 37 dueler and 38 michelins
Dropping them to 35 last night this morning it rode better.
The springs I don't believe are sagging as the fenders are still to this day way above the tires, stock no lift.
I was thinking about going with SR5 shocks however, Our vehicles are getting old. No matter how much we love our vehicles at some point $1400 master cylinders and $2000 head gaskets etc etc, are going to be a tipping point especially for people like me that have/need just one vehicle. If I were to have thought much harder I may have even let myself wonder if $823.28 worth of tires might have been that point in this economy with used vehicles going for what they are. But I do love my runner, and vehicle hunting now would also have been expensive. In a couple of years my fourth gen will be available for antique tags !!
Old picture with duelers on. P.S. Damn those michelins have a lot of tread on them !!!
.
.
__________________
NATO Seasparrow Mk 57 Mod 2 & 3
2004 4th Gen Sport Edition
Last edited by Seasparrow; 06-12-2021 at 10:23 AM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-12-2021, 10:01 AM
|
#14
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Cherokee Co., GA
Posts: 2,754
Real Name: Russell (OB #9908)
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Cherokee Co., GA
Posts: 2,754
Real Name: Russell (OB #9908)
|
The info & advice in the suspension post linked in my sig may be helpful. At work at the moment but I’ll weigh in more on this later.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
06-12-2021, 10:21 AM
|
#15
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Swampy and Sunny
Posts: 212
|
|
Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Swampy and Sunny
Posts: 212
|
Thanks everyone, I read your link Bluesky 07 thanks. How did you compress the springs ?
__________________
NATO Seasparrow Mk 57 Mod 2 & 3
2004 4th Gen Sport Edition
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Rate This Thread |
Linear Mode
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
|