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Old 07-18-2021, 06:57 PM #16
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It is a predicament indeed.

Bear in mind that Icon IFP rear shocks have a very long body. On 1" rear lift, they rubbed on the emergency brake cables (through the cover and to the steel). On the positive side, they gave me 1" extra travel on 1" lift spring (not true of other rear shocks). That extra travel was most welcome on Black Bear Pass last year. This year I had my 8100 series Bilstein for the trip. They have even more travel on the same spring plus many other virtues.

Stay safe in the San Juans. We just came back. Mineral Creek is the rockiest trail (P gulch aside, the one that I have not driven), Black Bear is the most dangerous, Imogene is easier than both but is a real 4x4 drive with some tippy spots and some rocks and Yankee Boy is easier than Imogene and is not exposed. The trails with extended very narrow sections are Black Bear, Imogene, Porphyry Gulch, Kendal Mountain, Red Mountain 3, McMillan Peak (also lots of backing up switchbacks on this one). Several other trails have shorter exposed and narrow sections, of course.

Suspension wise, for San Juans, I set my rear shocks at near max soft compression and above average rebound to maximize stability. I cannot adjust the front but I would do the same there if I could.

I surely would rather have less lift and more wheel travel for the San Juans than big lift with less travel. But above all, I would want a rig that is 100% and that will give me no surprises. So I fully agree with your efforts to get the rig to a predictable and drivable, safer state.

Hope you have a great and safe vacation regardless of these annoying troubles!
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Old 07-18-2021, 07:05 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAST4R View Post
It is a predicament indeed.

Bear in mind that Icon IFP rear shocks have a very long body. On 1" rear lift, they rubbed on the emergency brake cables (through the cover and to the steel). On the positive side, they gave me 1" extra travel on 1" lift spring (not true of other rear shocks). That extra travel was most welcome on Black Bear Pass last year. This year I had my 8100 series Bilstein for the trip. They have even more travel on the same spring plus many other virtues.

Stay safe in the San Juans. We just came back. Mineral Creek is the rockiest trail (P gulch aside, the one that I have not driven), Black Bear is the most dangerous, Imogene is easier than both but is a real 4x4 drive with some tippy spots and some rocks and Yankee Boy is easier than Imogene and is not exposed. The trails with extended very narrow sections are Black Bear, Imogene, Porphyry Gulch, Kendal Mountain, Red Mountain 3, McMillan Peak (also lots of backing up switchbacks on this one). Several other trails have shorter exposed and narrow sections, of course.

Suspension wise, for San Juans, I set my rear shocks at near max soft compression and above average rebound to maximize stability. I cannot adjust the front but I would do the same there if I could.

I surely would rather have less lift and more wheel travel for the San Juans than big lift with less travel. But above all, I would want a rig that is 100% and that will give me no surprises. So I fully agree with your efforts to get the rig to a predictable and drivable, safer state.

Hope you have a great and safe vacation regardless of these annoying troubles!
Thanks for the info. We will NOT be doing Black Bear pass and Iím still on the fence with Imogene. Once I get comfortable out there I will decide on Imogene.

I might see if the local alignment shop will work with me and let me get a twofer deal. I need the alignment first to settle my camber and toe issue and get a truer measurement. After that I need to drop the suspension to 21Ē or 21.5Ē measurement, then re-align it.

I really donít want to go out there with stock height, but I also donít want my Runner handling like pure garbage for 3,000 miles of non-stop interstate driving.

Ugh. This was supposed to be simple. Screw Murphy and his law.
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Old 07-18-2021, 07:16 PM #18
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Thanks for the info. We will NOT be doing Black Bear pass and I’m still on the fence with Imogene. Once I get comfortable out there I will decide on Imogene.

I might see if the local alignment shop will work with me and let me get a twofer deal. I need the alignment first to settle my camber and toe issue and get a truer measurement. After that I need to drop the suspension to 21” or 21.5” measurement, then re-align it.

I really don’t want to go out there with stock height, but I also don’t want my Runner handling like pure garbage for 3,000 miles of non-stop interstate driving.

Ugh. This was supposed to be simple. Screw Murphy and his law.
On the one hand, Imogene's first mile from Ouray, rated difficult by Wells, is straightforward IMO as is the final climb to the top (from Ouray), also rated difficult.

On the other hand, there are tippy spots in the middle between those two segments and before you get above tree line. The entire trail requires max attention but be especially careful there, as the 4R that followed us (random person) had some minor trouble with 2. On one, they were not coming so I went to spot them through. On another, I cringed as they hit the brakes right in the middle of the tippy spot. It is not that bad of a spot so nothing happened but that kind of thing may result in trouble if the suspension does something unexpected (or is not tuned well).

The Telluride side is very narrow but smoother. It is very narrow for very long so if driving it towards Telluride, watch from far away for traffic to avoid having to back up for long distances.

Mineral Creek has two spots that I found more tippy than anything on Imogene. Plus it combines rocks with narrow sections whereas on Imogene the rocky sections are not that narrow while the narrow sections are not that rocky.
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Old 07-18-2021, 07:28 PM #19
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On the one hand, Imogene's first mile from Ouray, rated difficult by Wells, is straightforward IMO as is the final climb to the top (from Ouray), also rated difficult.

On the other hand, there are tippy spots in the middle between those two segments and before you get above tree line. The entire trail requires max attention but be especially careful there, as the 4R that followed us (random person) had some minor trouble with 2. On one, they were not coming so I went to spot them through. On another, I cringed as they hit the brakes right in the middle of the tippy spot. It is not that bad of a spot so nothing happened but that kind of thing may result in trouble if the suspension does something unexpected (or is not tuned well).

The Telluride side is very narrow but smoother. It is very narrow for very long so if driving it towards Telluride, watch from far away for traffic to avoid having to back up for long distances.

Mineral Creek has two spots that I found more tippy than anything on Imogene. Plus it combines rocks with narrow sections whereas on Imogene the rocky sections are not that narrow while the narrow sections are not that rocky.
I had this thing flexed out on some boulders in my back yard. It takes A LOT to tip it.

Kind of like running the SXS on the trails we hit down in WV. Once you get the front wheel off the ground a few times it gets easier. Stopping is NEVER good idea in those situations. Haha!
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Old 07-18-2021, 07:55 PM #20
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I had this thing flexed out on some boulders in my back yard. It takes A LOT to tip it.

Kind of like running the SXS on the trails we hit down in WV. Once you get the front wheel off the ground a few times it gets easier. Stopping is NEVER good idea in those situations. Haha!
Yeah, it would be great to have a solid grasp of what you can and cannot take.

I was a bit worried that with last-minute suspension changes, surprises may happen.
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Old 07-18-2021, 07:57 PM #21
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Yeah, it would be great to have a solid grasp of what you can and cannot take.

I was a bit worried that with last-minute suspension changes, surprises may happen.
Before I fully put this to the test Iíll have it on those boulders in the yard to see the tipping point. Theyíre bigger than anything Iíll hit out there.
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Old 07-19-2021, 08:06 AM #22
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TBH your pics don't look that crazy. CV angles are fine. You likely just got some extra lift up front from eliminating some of the rake. The images look almost identical to my Dobinsons IMS (2.5/1.5) setup. Without aftermarket UCAs you won't get any better castor numbers. what weight springs did you go with? that can make a big difference in ride quality..
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Old 07-19-2021, 11:10 AM #23
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Why align, lower, align? Just lower it and get one alignment. Seems to me like youíre just overthinking it and stressing yourself out unnecessarily. Not being rude, but do you see the logic? Maybe try a different alignment shop also, should have gotten more caster than you did with the lift.


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Old 07-19-2021, 05:31 PM #24
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Camburg had their X joint arms ready to ship so I ordered them.

This Toyota drove amazingly well before so Iíd like to get back to that.

Got an alignment scheduled next Thursday, so hopefully they come in by Wednesday.
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Old 07-27-2021, 08:12 PM #25
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The Camburgs definitely tightened up the steering. Should drive awesome after an alignment.
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Old 07-29-2021, 10:03 PM #26
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Yeah, it would be great to have a solid grasp of what you can and cannot take.

I was a bit worried that with last-minute suspension changes, surprises may happen.
This flexes nicely.
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Old 07-29-2021, 10:19 PM #27
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This flexes nicely.

So whatís your opinion of the lift after all? Did the UCAís and alignment help?


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Old 07-30-2021, 04:46 AM #28
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So whatís your opinion of the lift after all? Did the UCAís and alignment help?


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The UCAís make it feel like stock again. They put camber back to 2.9 and 3.1 degrees. The alignment also helped.

Once the tread squirm stops this will be a nice ride. The tread squirm is awful at highway speeds.
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Old 07-30-2021, 10:45 AM #29
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glad you got it sorted. I understand the pressure of making sure you have a solid rig prior to a long trip, but I think it definitely made you overthink and overstress about a lot of this.

I'm on Icon front and rear setup running right at 3" of lift and these perform significantly better than the Bilstein 5100's I had prior.

I'm assuming you were on the high spring rate spring in the front ? With the amount of pre-load you had pictured there is absolutely no way you were near 5 inches of lift so not sure what was going on there. Granted I have a steel bumper with a winch, but my total lift was just shy of 3 inches with the stock pre-load from ICON. I also have the high caster JBA UCA's and have 0 complaints about the ride quality on and off road.

Also, I can tell you that if you were truly anything over 3" of lift you would have popped both of your CV joint boots 3 miles into your first drive. Ask me how I know (long story short I set the bilstein shock to the absolute highest spring perch but was using OME heavy springs and should only have been on the first perch, netting me a total of damn near 5 inches of lift and some mean Carolina squat)

Good luck and be safe on your trip, sounds like a helluva good time!
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Old 07-30-2021, 08:24 PM #30
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glad you got it sorted. I understand the pressure of making sure you have a solid rig prior to a long trip, but I think it definitely made you overthink and overstress about a lot of this.

I'm on Icon front and rear setup running right at 3" of lift and these perform significantly better than the Bilstein 5100's I had prior.

I'm assuming you were on the high spring rate spring in the front ? With the amount of pre-load you had pictured there is absolutely no way you were near 5 inches of lift so not sure what was going on there. Granted I have a steel bumper with a winch, but my total lift was just shy of 3 inches with the stock pre-load from ICON. I also have the high caster JBA UCA's and have 0 complaints about the ride quality on and off road.

Also, I can tell you that if you were truly anything over 3" of lift you would have popped both of your CV joint boots 3 miles into your first drive. Ask me how I know (long story short I set the bilstein shock to the absolute highest spring perch but was using OME heavy springs and should only have been on the first perch, netting me a total of damn near 5 inches of lift and some mean Carolina squat)

Good luck and be safe on your trip, sounds like a helluva good time!
I actually didnít adjust the coilovers at all. My front is sitting right at 22.5Ē right now. Iím guessing it needs to settle. This thing almost never gets driven. Maybe once a week just to keep it moving. Sometimes once every two to three.

I definitely over thought a lot, but Iím a perfectionist and really like everything 100% WELL in advance to a trip. This felt like an episode of Roadkill or Roadkill Garage with everything giving me a headache.
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