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Old 09-09-2021, 10:52 PM #1
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The path to the future

I've got a 2005 4X4 with a V8. It is a great car, but it is starting to get long in the tooth. I have maintained it quite well, but I can see that the annual costs are going up. So I'm thinking about where to go from here.
My wife wants something with more bells and whistles like bluetooth connectivity, hands free, and digital map in the panel. I just want another really reliable vehicle with some muscle.
MY MO is to buy a really nice 3 year old car and drive it for 10 years or so. But I can't get another V8 with 2019 version.
Why wouldn't I just do a complete overhaul on the current rig? I can buy all the creature comforts the wife wants and redo the panel. I can turn the engine, tranny, and suspension into new (there is no rust that I can see).
What would something like that cost?
What are the pro's and con's that you all can think of?

Thanks for your thoughts.
I really appreciate it.
Hack

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Old 09-10-2021, 08:40 AM #2
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What mileage are you at? The engine/trans in your vehicle are 300K + miles easily, barring an unforeseen failure. I would focus on the wife's desires and get those working properly and see where you're at and is wife satisfied.
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Old 09-10-2021, 09:50 AM #3
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The phrase " they dont make them like they used to" will repeat in your head every day if you get rid of that.

All those creature comforts can be retrofitted into your current truck and it will be more satisfying than buying something new and having a payment for way too much money.

Unless you have major rust issues or major assembly issues that the cost of repair is too high.
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Old 09-10-2021, 11:25 AM #4
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Sounds like she just wants a new head unit with nav, wireless carplay/Android auto...

Go to your local and reputable audio shop and have them install on of the Kenwood Reference head units w/nav (they have a floating 10" model that'll be like a Tesla display floating in front of the dash): https://www.kenwood.com/usa/car/exce...ce_series.html

Get a RR Maestro to add features such as TPMS, integrate steering wheel controls, etc..

Follow this thread to add the right hand side steering wheel controls if you don't have them to control phone calls and siri/google assistant: DIY Bluetooth/Voice Command steering wheel button install (pics)........for REAL

Going all out, that's less than $1500 and you get to keep the V8 and she has the bells and whistles she wants... If you get a new vehicle, pull it all out and move it to the new one or pull it out and sell it here or elsewhere online.
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Old 09-10-2021, 01:30 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hack View Post
I've got a 2005 4X4 with a V8. It is a great car, but it is starting to get long in the tooth. I have maintained it quite well, but I can see that the annual costs are going up. So I'm thinking about where to go from here.
My wife wants something with more bells and whistles like bluetooth connectivity, hands free, and digital map in the panel. I just want another really reliable vehicle with some muscle.
MY MO is to buy a really nice 3 year old car and drive it for 10 years or so. But I can't get another V8 with 2019 version.
Why wouldn't I just do a complete overhaul on the current rig? I can buy all the creature comforts the wife wants and redo the panel. I can turn the engine, tranny, and suspension into new (there is no rust that I can see).
What would something like that cost?
What are the pro's and con's that you all can think of?

Thanks for your thoughts.
I really appreciate it.
Hack
I imagine, and hope, that you are here to hear justification to keep one of the most bad ass vehicles out there.

People are still maintaining (and paying ridiculous prices for) beat ass '80s Toyota pickups, and the v8 4Runner will be no different. There's tons of donor motors and even more transmissions out there, I plan on maintaining mine forever and there's no reason why you couldn't do the same. I fully modernized my truck from the inside out (touchscreen radio with android auto/carplay, lighting, map light mod is a must, added a sub, installed an iPad mount for the kids in the back, etc etc.

I also dug much deeper into DIY maintenance and modding than I had ever done before which has been quite rewarding though not exactly cheaper than using shops (yet). Over time I expect that will change in my favor.

I wouldn't get rid of that thing unless the frame failed, and even then I'd try and repair it if possible first. That is just me though, but you did come to t4r.org

I also wouldn't worry about doing any rebuilding of the engine/transmission. New top end fluids all throughout are always good, but if there aren't any issues, don't spend any money there imo. Suspension overhaul, if your suspension is tired and/or you want to upgrade, go for it. Aftermarket suspension options (with lift, assuming you want that) range from 1k to 4kish for the parts for front and rear. You can keep adding dollars as you add parts, which just depends on how far you're trying to go and the condition of your current parts. You didn't include a whole lot of detail about the condition of your truck other than a lack of rust, what's the mileage on it and maintenance records? Timing belt/water pump been done recently? Don't sleep on that, lol.

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Old 09-10-2021, 07:02 PM #6
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You all hae been great. Thnx for your help. I think I'll keep her. (Both the 4Runner and the wife!!)
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Old 09-10-2021, 09:18 PM #7
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Originally Posted by Hack View Post
You all hae been great. Thnx for your help. I think I'll keep her. (Both the 4Runner and the wife!!)
I'm glad you decided to keep her, I'd probably get rid of my wife before I got rid of mine!!!, JK...maybe,

But seriously, one thing no one has mentioned, which should make you feel even better on deciding on keep it is the same V8 you have is the same engine that is in 2 Tundras that Toyota has purchased back from their owner for testing after each one had put over 1,000,000 miles on those Tundras!!

After Toyota took the engine apart on the first Tundra, they found very little wear in the cylinders, the cylinders still had the honing marks/swirls from when the engine was originally built!!

I haven't read about the tear down on the second Tundra, but I suspect it's much the same as the first one.
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Old 09-12-2021, 12:26 PM #8
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Funny...I was just thinking I'm in the same boat here, then saw your thread.

I'm the orig owner of my '04 V8 4WD SE, about 114k miles and in pretty good shape as its a So Cal truck. We have three other 4th gens and an LX470 that I'm currently responsible for, those all have around 115-140k miles each, so I'm sort of in the same boat three times over.

I'm probably way too analytical, and also enjoy not having a car payment and saving $, so my current thought is, while selling my '04 and buying a couple-year-old 5th gen sounds appealing, I'd have to cough up an additional $30k and/or $7k/year in payments. When I consider future repairs other than PM for the next 100k miles on my '04, I'm realizing that if I allocate $2k/year ($166/month) for those repairs, I'll likely be in a much better place to do that and hang on.

Upcoming repairs that I'm likely facing that I probably wouldn't have on a 2 yr old 5th gen:
- replace front axles or re-boot (I'd probably replace inner axle seals and wheel bearings at the same time)
- replace LCAs
- replace front wheel bearings
- re-gasket engine valve covers
- leaking actuator seals
- radiator replacement although no signs of leaks at this time
- those clicking servo motors behind the dashboard
- replace non-oem headlight assemblies with oem
- timing belt package (last done at 86k/2015)

The old stereo head unit definitely sucks. I replaced the subwoofer 2 yrs ago and rest of the speakers are still good for now. For sure a new fancy new head unit with GPS etc would be great. But what I did a couple years ago was replace my center console compartment thing with the smokers kit, and stuck one of these in one of the lighter/chargers Amazon.com: IMDEN Bluetooth 5.0 FM Transmitter for Car, 3.0 Wireless Bluetooth FM Radio Adapter Music Player FM Transmitter/Car Kit with Hands-Free Calling and 2 USB Ports Charger Support USB Drive : Electronics . Not perfect but visually it is very clean and looks like something that would come out of the factory, and it works really well for my needs and integrates great with my cell phone, so I don't feel like I'm really missing anything. Also, I'm an old school driver who drove for decades before the advent of back-up cameras so I have no dependency on them nor a need for one.

My only motivation for selling and getting a newer 4Runner would be for better safety features and Active Safety options. Our LX and '03 4Runner both have full air bag curtains, so if the Big Shift to newer cars happens, those would probably be the last two to go.
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Old 09-13-2021, 11:09 PM #9
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Quote:
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I'm glad you decided to keep her, I'd probably get rid of my wife before I got rid of mine!!!, JK...maybe,

But seriously, one thing no one has mentioned, which should make you feel even better on deciding on keep it is the same V8 you have is the same engine that is in 2 Tundras that Toyota has purchased back from their owner for testing after each one had put over 1,000,000 miles on those Tundras!!

After Toyota took the engine apart on the first Tundra, they found very little wear in the cylinders, the cylinders still had the honing marks/swirls from when the engine was originally built!!

I haven't read about the tear down on the second Tundra, but I suspect it's much the same as the first one.
Something to keep in mind about those trucks though is they were running parts to oil fields or something like that, and were getting an oil change like every few weeks. Still very impressive, but they were getting much more frequent maintenance than most.

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Old 09-14-2021, 02:03 AM #10
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Something to keep in mind about those trucks though is they were running parts to oil fields or something like that, and were getting an oil change like every few weeks. Still very impressive, but they were getting much more frequent maintenance than most.

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I don't think oil changes would factor into their high mileage, the oil would be changed according to mileage, the same as with any regularly maintained vehicle.

I think the main difference would be less cold starts of the engine per mileage and less stop and go driving since most of the mileage would be "highway miles".
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Old 09-14-2021, 08:45 AM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hack View Post
I've got a 2005 4X4 with a V8. It is a great car, but it is starting to get long in the tooth. I have maintained it quite well, but I can see that the annual costs are going up. So I'm thinking about where to go from here.
My wife wants something with more bells and whistles like bluetooth connectivity, hands free, and digital map in the panel. I just want another really reliable vehicle with some muscle.
MY MO is to buy a really nice 3 year old car and drive it for 10 years or so. But I can't get another V8 with 2019 version.
Why wouldn't I just do a complete overhaul on the current rig? I can buy all the creature comforts the wife wants and redo the panel. I can turn the engine, tranny, and suspension into new (there is no rust that I can see).
What would something like that cost?
What are the pro's and con's that you all can think of?

Thanks for your thoughts.
I really appreciate it.
Hack
I get it, it's no fun to see a reliable vehicle that you've babied start to show it's age. That combined with a allure of a newer vehicle can be pretty compelling, but I'll say these things.

How valuable is your money to you, and how do you like spending it? It's so tempting to go for that newer vehicle, but think about how much maintenance and repair work you could afford for a car payment each month. The difference is usually huge, and dealerships don't want you to think about that. They want you to think about how cool you'll look driving a newer vehicle, and all the fancy new toys that are crammed into the dash. Maybe that's important to you, which is fine; it's not really to me.

Secondly I agree with the general sentiment here. There are loads of great aftermarket HUs and other gismos that are often times better than current factory offerings on the latest model year. Combine that with new shocks all around (if yours are old and showing their age) and it'll be an all new driving experience for what, like 3-4 car payments?

I will say, if modern safety features like BSM, lane departure, etc. are important to you and your wife, then of course that's only achievable in a newer model; something to consider.

Just my $0.02
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Old 09-17-2021, 02:46 PM #12
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Isn't the GX a viable option for something newer that is 4Runner-like with a V8?
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Old 10-09-2021, 12:04 AM #13
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Isn't the GX a viable option for something newer that is 4Runner-like with a V8?
I second this. Go for a gx460 if you want a basically nicer version of a 4runner with a V8. Even an older one like a 2010 would seem like a nice update from your 05 in my opinion and can be had for a lot less than a newer one. May as well test drive one.

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Old 11-04-2021, 12:10 PM #14
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Funny...I was just thinking I'm in the same boat here, then saw your thread.

I'm the orig owner of my '04 V8 4WD SE, about 114k miles and in pretty good shape as its a So Cal truck. We have three other 4th gens and an LX470 that I'm currently responsible for, those all have around 115-140k miles each, so I'm sort of in the same boat three times over.

I'm probably way too analytical, and also enjoy not having a car payment and saving $, so my current thought is, while selling my '04 and buying a couple-year-old 5th gen sounds appealing, I'd have to cough up an additional $30k and/or $7k/year in payments. When I consider future repairs other than PM for the next 100k miles on my '04, I'm realizing that if I allocate $2k/year ($166/month) for those repairs, I'll likely be in a much better place to do that and hang on.

Upcoming repairs that I'm likely facing that I probably wouldn't have on a 2 yr old 5th gen:
- replace front axles or re-boot (I'd probably replace inner axle seals and wheel bearings at the same time)
- replace LCAs
- replace front wheel bearings
- re-gasket engine valve covers
- leaking actuator seals
- radiator replacement although no signs of leaks at this time
- those clicking servo motors behind the dashboard
- replace non-oem headlight assemblies with oem
- timing belt package (last done at 86k/2015)

The old stereo head unit definitely sucks. I replaced the subwoofer 2 yrs ago and rest of the speakers are still good for now. For sure a new fancy new head unit with GPS etc would be great. But what I did a couple years ago was replace my center console compartment thing with the smokers kit, and stuck one of these in one of the lighter/chargers Amazon.com: IMDEN Bluetooth 5.0 FM Transmitter for Car, 3.0 Wireless Bluetooth FM Radio Adapter Music Player FM Transmitter/Car Kit with Hands-Free Calling and 2 USB Ports Charger Support USB Drive : Electronics . Not perfect but visually it is very clean and looks like something that would come out of the factory, and it works really well for my needs and integrates great with my cell phone, so I don't feel like I'm really missing anything. Also, I'm an old school driver who drove for decades before the advent of back-up cameras so I have no dependency on them nor a need for one.

My only motivation for selling and getting a newer 4Runner would be for better safety features and Active Safety options. Our LX and '03 4Runner both have full air bag curtains, so if the Big Shift to newer cars happens, those would probably be the last two to go.
I wanted to follow up on this post of mine from a few months ago to provide some price points and my experiences. I did complete the following:
- replace front CV axles and inner/outer seals with OEM inc. front diff drain/refill and new plugs/washers.
- front bearings (OEM via bluepitbearings hub/bearings product
- new front pads/shims/caliper and cotter pins and turn front rotors
- replaced LCAs (OEM) and hardware/cotter pins, cams/bolts etc.
- re-gasket engine valve covers and new valve cover bolts (OEM)

My 4Runner has 114k mostly street miles, maybe a few hundred off-road miles. Original owner, 17 yrs now. Mostly used as a 3rd car and off-roader/camping truck.

Cost:
Parts - total for OEM parts excluding bluepitbearings was about $2.1-2.2K. My local dealer quoted at $3k and on-line at McGeorge the quote was about $1.9k and Longo was $2k. I showed my local dealer the on-line parts quote and asked them what their best quote would be and, shockingly, they dropped their quote to what worked out to be around $2.1-2.2k. I could've paid less if I wanted to spend a couple hours driving out to Longo Toyota but wasn't really in to that. Plst, that figure represents several trips back for additional parts. This also helped me build a relationship with my local dealer, which is nice as they're just down the street.

Labor: was going to be DIY with me and an experienced neighbor, but life got in the way so I had a local indy Toyota shop do it all at the same time for the obvious reason. A little less than $1.3k inc oil change with oil/filter/washer I already had.

In hindsight, I could've save big $ by simply rebooting and reusing my CVs as the impetus for touching these was that I had a recently torn boot, and thought "may as well replace these 17 yr old axles while they're off the truck". That same mindset resulted in replacing the front hubs and wheel bearings, which didn't appear to have any notable issues, yet, after 17 yrs. so I could've saved $$$ there as well. My LCA bushings were shot, so again, same mindset to replace them while they're off the truck. While the bushings were fried, the ball joint didn't have any noticeable issues, so I could've saved $$$ there too, by simply changing out the bushings.

No steering rack or rear main seal issues yet but I imagine that'll come up within the next 5 yrs. and I'll allocate a couple thousand over the next few years for those.

So...about $3.5k later and I should be good for another 15+ years 100k miles on my front end. No regrets as these V8 4th gens are really awesome and super reliable. I regretted selling my '84 Toyota p/u, my '89 4Runner, and my '95 4Runner. As long as I can afford or unless I come across a deal too good to be true I'll hang on to this 4th gen.
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Old 11-04-2021, 04:56 PM #15
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It's all about the budget I guess.. If you have the ability to do all the work yourself it could very well be worth it if you're up for the amount of time it would take to overhaul everything. If you're looking to pay someone I would say you're better off throwing that same money into a newer rig.

There are plenty of updates to do to get the creature comforts up to date, but keep in mind that even with some of the best, most expensive aftermarket options it probably won't be up to far with what is available from the factory.

A good head unit and speaker upgrade alone can run anywhere from $700 on the low end to over $2000 for good quality components and replacing everything in the rig now. I have a nice updated headunit with apple car play and it works with my steeringwheel controls, I replaced all the speakers and subs, but even on my budget build I am in roughly 1100 total just for parts.

If you're not looking to build an off road capable rig, factory components can be overhauled fairly cheap with good aftermarket components (again, if you can do the work yourself). A decent engine refresh with the timing chain, water pump, gaskets, seals, etc would run you 400-800 bucks depending on what all you elect to replace and will keep the V8 chugging along for a long long time.

One thing to consider is also replacing the headers/cats because if they haven't already, they'll either crack or go the cats will die (or both) and you'll need to replace that. Those parts if you want quality replacement aren't cheap either.

Wheel bearings, driveshaft joints, etc all should be refreshed, all bushings, steering rack, etc.

Without pricing everything out I would say a healthy budget for a solid rebuild/refresh would probably be somewhere in the 3500-5000 range and would keep it going for years especially since you don't have any rust.
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