Home Menu

Site Navigation


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-14-2021, 05:56 PM #1
ccoyle71 ccoyle71 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Franklin
Posts: 22
ccoyle71 is on a distinguished road
ccoyle71 ccoyle71 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Franklin
Posts: 22
ccoyle71 is on a distinguished road
P0171 - What else can I check??

2004 SR5 - 260K miles. I love my 4Runner, and I'm hoping to drive it forever. Very few issues mechanically thus far - just routine maintenance. I'm stumped by a P0171 code that popped up (lean bank 1). I've replaced O2 sensors recently.....both up and downstream. Prior to the 0171, I had a codes for the O2 sensors. Things were good for several months. Then a few days ago, P0171 popped up. Cleaned MAF (Haven't replaced it yet as it's $150). Checked vac lines and can't find any leaks. If I clear the code, it's right back on.....within a day or so. I've just picked up a set of spark plugs, as they are probably due anyway. Also picked up a PCV valve which I'll put on tonite with the new plugs.

The light just came on about 3 days ago.....but it's actually stumbling at idle today. It won't die, but I can tell it's running rough and isn't happy.

Is there anything else I'm missing? Other things to check?? It's my daily driver, and I'm really hoping this isn't the beginning of a wild goose chase......

Any help is much appreciated, Chris
ccoyle71 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-14-2021, 07:48 PM #2
delstele's Avatar
delstele delstele is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: MI
Posts: 34
delstele is on a distinguished road
delstele delstele is offline
Member
delstele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: MI
Posts: 34
delstele is on a distinguished road
Swap out the plugs, sounds like the motor may have blow by give her some fresh quality lube it's all good..

Last edited by delstele; 12-14-2021 at 07:51 PM.
delstele is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 09:46 AM #3
aemravan aemravan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 1,547
aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute
aemravan aemravan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 1,547
aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute aemravan has a reputation beyond repute
yea... I have never seen a bad sparkplug give a lean condition, though it wouldn't hurt to change if you haven't in a while I would hope it fixes the issue.

If it's stumbling at idle and is throwing a lean code it definitely sounds like some air is making its way in past the MAF or its not happy with the amount of fuel its getting (not very likely).

How are you checking for vacuum leaks? Just a visual? Get some carb cleaner or propane torch that and start spraying around with the engine running and see if it will rev up.. could be a small crack in something letting air get in.. just an idea.. .vacuum leaks can suck (no pun intended)
aemravan is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 09:56 AM #4
UrbanRunner651's Avatar
UrbanRunner651 UrbanRunner651 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: MN
Posts: 264
Real Name: Newell
UrbanRunner651 will become famous soon enough
UrbanRunner651 UrbanRunner651 is offline
Member
UrbanRunner651's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: MN
Posts: 264
Real Name: Newell
UrbanRunner651 will become famous soon enough
The lean codes are almost always related to a leak in the exhaust. Check your manifolds for minor cracking.
__________________
08 V6; Dobinsons IMS, Spidertrax, Prinsu, Revo 3s, AFE pro dry, Mishimoto catch, JBA shorties, Custom Y pipe, Borla pro XS, Hayden trans cooler, Ultragauge, Fumoto, +More..
UrbanRunner651 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 01:23 PM #5
ccoyle71 ccoyle71 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Franklin
Posts: 22
ccoyle71 is on a distinguished road
ccoyle71 ccoyle71 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Franklin
Posts: 22
ccoyle71 is on a distinguished road
Thanks guys - I really do appreciate the replies.

Last night I swapped the plugs and the pcv. My plugs were pretty shot, so after pulling the 1st one.....I thought I may get lucky and have it fix my issue. But, alas, the code came back today on my way to work.....and it still stumbles somewhat at idle. I'm sure it'll be happier with new plugs, but I haven't found my issue yet.

To check for vac leaks....I've used small propane canister (for camping) with a valve and hose attached so I can "sniff" around specific areas. I haven't been able to find anything (at least not yet). I have an old CJ7 Jeep....and I've had luck using this method on the Jeep, but it's SO much easier to see everything and wrench on the CJ....Plus, no computer to fool with!!

I have not changed the MAF.....but I have cleaned it really well several times.

I'm curious, you mention air making it's way past the MAF - do you mean after the MAF? ie - is that where I should focus?

It's a bank 1 code - which if I'm not mistaken is on the passenger side on these V6's - is that correct? And does that necessarily mean the leak would be located on that side of the engine?

Someone else mentioned an exhaust leak - which could definitely be possible - and I haven't checked......not quite sure the best way to do that....

A few other questions....

Where is a good manifold vac source on these engines?? I have a vac gauge.....and thought it may be helpful to check what the readings are.....but I'm accustomed to working on my CJ and can't even find a manifold port on the 4Runner.

Is it possible that it is an O2 sensor? I have replaced all my sensors within the last year, so I'm not leaning that way....but I've heard that they can fail.

In my search for vacuum leaks, is there somewhere I'm missing? Or a common spot for air to creep in? Most of the vac hoses seem to be on the driver side, but I guess I could be overlooking something.

Thanks again for any help and for the replies above....

Last edited by ccoyle71; 12-15-2021 at 01:25 PM.
ccoyle71 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 02:57 PM #6
ccoyle71 ccoyle71 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Franklin
Posts: 22
ccoyle71 is on a distinguished road
ccoyle71 ccoyle71 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Franklin
Posts: 22
ccoyle71 is on a distinguished road
Also.....

I don't really understand fuel trims and OBDII diagnostics.....but I've been googling / Youtubing and maybe someone can help me with this.

I have a cheap scan tool that I've just used after my research, and my fuel trims at idle are really high. This makes sense to me that the ECM is trying to add fuel to compensate for the lean condition. Alot of the videos I've seen, show a drop in the Short Term Fuel trim with higher RPMS - which points to a vacuum leak. This also makes sense to me.....as there is less vac with the throttle plates open.

BUT - my short term trim barely drops at all. It's the same at 2500 rpms as it is at idle. So that makes me think NOT vac leak.....but either fuel delivery or a bad sensor - either A/F upstream sensor or MAF??

Is this correct??

For reference.....my short term is 19-20 and long term is around 28. From what I've read, they shouldn't be more than 10% combined....so I'm thinking the computer is correct about there being a problem.

Did I mention I hate computers??
ccoyle71 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 05:25 PM #7
djpope09 djpope09 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Washington
Posts: 264
djpope09 will become famous soon enough
djpope09 djpope09 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Washington
Posts: 264
djpope09 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccoyle71 View Post
Also.....

I don't really understand fuel trims and OBDII diagnostics.....but I've been googling / Youtubing and maybe someone can help me with this.

I have a cheap scan tool that I've just used after my research, and my fuel trims at idle are really high. This makes sense to me that the ECM is trying to add fuel to compensate for the lean condition. Alot of the videos I've seen, show a drop in the Short Term Fuel trim with higher RPMS - which points to a vacuum leak. This also makes sense to me.....as there is less vac with the throttle plates open.

BUT - my short term trim barely drops at all. It's the same at 2500 rpms as it is at idle. So that makes me think NOT vac leak.....but either fuel delivery or a bad sensor - either A/F upstream sensor or MAF??

Is this correct??

For reference.....my short term is 19-20 and long term is around 28. From what I've read, they shouldn't be more than 10% combined....so I'm thinking the computer is correct about there being a problem.

Did I mention I hate computers??
I dealt with the P0171 fault code recently and also had LTFT of 20-30% and fixed it with a new A/F sensor on the passenger side.

I used this one:
Amazon.com: Denso 234-9047 Air Fuel Ratio Sensor : Automotive

If you want, you could try swapping the two upstream sensors to see if the fault code changes to P0174 for the driver's side.
djpope09 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 08:58 PM #8
81runner's Avatar
81runner 81runner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Moorpark CA
Age: 42
Posts: 477
Real Name: Elliott
81runner has a spectacular aura about 81runner has a spectacular aura about
81runner 81runner is offline
Member
81runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Moorpark CA
Age: 42
Posts: 477
Real Name: Elliott
81runner has a spectacular aura about 81runner has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanRunner651 View Post
The lean codes are almost always related to a leak in the exhaust. Check your manifolds for minor cracking.
...Except when they are related to actually being lean, as was my case...needed a new fuel pump at 170k miles. Rebooted the whole fuel system at that point, been fine since. The code pops up because the computer is detecting not enough fuel(or too much air) in bank 1 and has had to compensate over a certain point (I believe your ltft1 would be over +20 to trigger). So you need to ask why the ecu sees this? Vacuum leak? Down stream of the maf or even the manifold itself, you're pulling in air past the metering device which throws off the engine. Best way I have found to test that is with some type of smoke machine (I used to vape, so that was my solution) mmv. If you have the ability to check fuel pressure, that's a worthy test for fuel delivery. If pressure is low, like from a weak pump or a failing regulator, you will see both banks running lean typically. Since yours is related to one bank only, I'm thinking a vacuum leak at an injector seal or a bad injector. It's technically possible to have an issue affecting the whole engine but only getting the code on one side, do you have a the ability to monitor live data? Might be useful in diagnosis.
__________________
2007 SR5 V6 4WD 205k, Titanium Metallic. 5100s, OME 885/895, extended rear links, ST Maxx 255/75 R17 on 17x8s, mud flap delete,TB spacer, Spectre CAI, DRL delete, HCF delete, DAC delete, K&N cabin filter, TPMS bypass, Fog light mod, USB galore, dash cam, LED lights all over, rear bumper lights, cbi ditch light brackets w/lights, atrac off, OBA w/2 gallon tank/hidden hook up, Trailgear welded sliders, Rocksteady skids, custom swing-out, 3⁰, SE hood w/working vent, Sprint booster, JET MAF, Kenwood TM-V71a w/motorized antenna, custom dual battery, custom roof rack/lights, custom TRED mount, external 12v, rear diff breather, pck, Freedom UCAs, custom stereo, Aluminum rad, trans cooler, 240A alternator...for now...
81runner is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-16-2021, 09:31 AM #9
ccoyle71 ccoyle71 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Franklin
Posts: 22
ccoyle71 is on a distinguished road
ccoyle71 ccoyle71 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Franklin
Posts: 22
ccoyle71 is on a distinguished road
Thanks guys - I REALLY appreciate the feedback. It makes perfect sense - about the upstream A/F sensing more air (that's crept in after the MAF) and compensating by adding fuel on that bank. My bank 2 fuel trims are normal (+/- 1%)....so it seems that the issue is just on 1 side.

Do these engines have a valve (kinda like a schrader valve) inline somewhere that you can check / monitor fuel pressure? I don't own a gauge, but have borrowed a friends before to use on another vehicle. And I agree, that would be worth checking.

I think my next step is to focus again on leak detection - on the passenger side. I can probably borrow a smoke machine as well, so that'll be my priority.

I'm tempted to get a new A/F sensor on that side, just to rule it out. I may even be able to get it warrantied - not sure if rockauto / denso does that.....but it's less than a year old I'm fairly certain.

I think my MAF is fine after more research and head scratching. If it were bad....I'd expect to also have P0174 / bank 2 codes. AND.....using my scan tool....I'm reading between 5/g of air at idle and up to 10 or 11 grams at 2500 RPMs....so it seems to be operating correctly from what I've read.

81runner - my scanner can monitor live data stream - but I'm still learning how to use it. It's a cheap(er) tool, but it will show fuel trims, O2 voltage, etc. What live stream data specifically would I looking for to further diagnose this?

And - how difficult are the injector seals to replace?? Hoping this is something easy that I'm overlooking......that sounds complicated....
ccoyle71 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-16-2021, 10:39 AM #10
UrbanRunner651's Avatar
UrbanRunner651 UrbanRunner651 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: MN
Posts: 264
Real Name: Newell
UrbanRunner651 will become famous soon enough
UrbanRunner651 UrbanRunner651 is offline
Member
UrbanRunner651's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: MN
Posts: 264
Real Name: Newell
UrbanRunner651 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by 81runner View Post
...Except when they are related to actually being lean, as was my case..
Key word being "almost". Unlike your case, OP describes only one side lean. How much was the new pump? Seems like a good PM measure as I am about to roll 200k..
Bank 1 is the passenger side. Swap your sensors as dj pointed out to see if it flags the other bank.
Most exhaust shops will do a free inspection if you bring it in and describe the problem. Typically their first approach is to use a modified stethoscope to listen for audible leaks while running.
__________________
08 V6; Dobinsons IMS, Spidertrax, Prinsu, Revo 3s, AFE pro dry, Mishimoto catch, JBA shorties, Custom Y pipe, Borla pro XS, Hayden trans cooler, Ultragauge, Fumoto, +More..
UrbanRunner651 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-16-2021, 03:53 PM #11
BigMike18 BigMike18 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 169
Real Name: Mikey Barger
BigMike18 is on a distinguished road
BigMike18 BigMike18 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 169
Real Name: Mikey Barger
BigMike18 is on a distinguished road
I had what I’m thinking is a similar problem myself and could never find the solution until I replaced all the fuel injectors rubber grommet/seals. Some were cracked and old that would allow more air in than needed. Cheap fix but not the easiest to get to so make sure your boxes are checked first.
BigMike18 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-16-2021, 11:39 PM #12
Derekv Derekv is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Colorado
Posts: 47
Derekv is on a distinguished road
Derekv Derekv is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Colorado
Posts: 47
Derekv is on a distinguished road
Check the connection between the exhaust manifold and the Y pipe on the side with the issue. There is a gasket in that connection. It is just down stream of the cat. If there is a leak there, down stream of the first O2 sensor and up stream of the second O2 sensor, you get the lean code because it sucks in O2 through the leak.

Derek V
Derekv is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-17-2021, 01:48 PM #13
ccoyle71 ccoyle71 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Franklin
Posts: 22
ccoyle71 is on a distinguished road
ccoyle71 ccoyle71 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Franklin
Posts: 22
ccoyle71 is on a distinguished road
Thanks guys - all really good suggestions. I"m headed out of town for a few days, so this will have to wait until Tues or Wednesday of next week. I hate leaving without solving it - but family calls. I'll report back with what I find and any other questions I have. And thanks again for the suggestions and help.
ccoyle71 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-23-2021, 02:59 PM #14
ccoyle71 ccoyle71 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Franklin
Posts: 22
ccoyle71 is on a distinguished road
ccoyle71 ccoyle71 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Franklin
Posts: 22
ccoyle71 is on a distinguished road
Back to work on this thing last night - spent about 2 hrs looking for leaks, still can't find anything. My friend with a smoke machine is out of town until after the first of the year....so last night I found an old cigar from a friends wedding....and tried my own "smoke" test. Does anyone have a vac diagram? I searched the forum, but couldn't find one. I'll sway the upstream A/F sensors tonight and see if I get any different results, but I'm still thinking I have a leak. Also - don't think I mentioned this before.....but the freeze frame data shows an idle RPM.....and that is definitely when she seems the least happy. All of which, makes me think I have a leak that I just haven't found yet.

Anyone have a diagram? I have the Haynes manual, and have searched here but haven't been able to dig one up....
ccoyle71 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 12-23-2021, 04:11 PM #15
Atalanta Atalanta is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 2
Atalanta is on a distinguished road
Atalanta Atalanta is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 2
Atalanta is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccoyle71 View Post
I love my 4Runner, and I'm hoping to drive it forever.
Just wanted to say: same.
Atalanta is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Tags
code , days , p0171 , picked , popped


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Check engine code P0171 Wasatch Rebel 3rd gen T4Rs 9 01-02-2015 01:22 AM
CEL P0171, cleaned MAF, fastest way to get ready for smog check? Arv 3rd gen T4Rs 10 07-28-2014 11:28 PM
Check Engine P0171 Code Moab 4Rocker 3rd gen T4Rs 12 03-06-2013 06:07 PM
check enging light P0171 P0136 Myboys2 New Members 0 05-05-2011 11:26 AM
Check engine:P0171 system lean jmnral 3rd gen T4Rs 4 03-06-2011 10:33 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:14 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2020