Frame Rust Class Action Lawsuit Info & Questions

M

moodle

New member
My 2004 4R has a dangerously rusted frame, and I came across the law firm that is starting up a class action lawsuit specifically for 4th gen 4Runners.

Do you own a 4th generation 4Runner? - Bell Legal Group

I filled in the online form and they called me for info. I spoke with a clerk making the calls and it seems like they are in the preliminary stages - gathering info from enough angry 4R owners to make it worthwhile for them.

Is anyone else thinking of joining this?

Is there another law firm getting a class action suit going?

Does anyone know this Bell Legal Group? Are they trustworthy?

Thanks for any info you can provide.

BTW, I went to my local Toyota dealer looking to get a new 4Runner and asked if they have changed the frames or gotten a new manufacturer to avoid rust. He said no, they have changed nothing, probably because it only affects the northeastern & mid-western states.
 
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I believe this is the only group collecting statements. Every few months we’ll get a post like this encouraging others to sign up, but this far out the class action suit isn’t going anywhere. I believe the bell group has done other class action suits with car manufacturers

The frame and finishing process has improved modestly. The 03- early 05s were the worst. 06-09 are better frames. The 5th gens have again some minor improvement in the process. Someone else can chime in about the chemistry better than I can

I had an 03 rust through. My 08 is not pristine my any measure, but is in much better shape than my 03 was.

I think the big thing with rust too is it’s all your experience. Some people in the south and especially those in the southwest and west think that any rust is an immediate danger and most of the auto repair shops give similar impressions. If you took that same vehicle somewhere else they wouldn’t even blink at it and keep going on

If you’ve got some pictures of your rust we may be able to give you a broader opinion of it
 
rdruss said:
Toyota is not going to do anything for 4th gen 4Runners, IMO.
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This unfortunately. Many of the affected vehicles are now coming up on 20 years old, the residual values don't warrant the cost of the frame, components and labor involved for a swap-out.
 
You have an 18yr old vehicle and you’re chasing after a class action lawsuit? Even if you had an 09 it’s over 10yrs old. Maybe if this was 2010 you and the lawyers might have a leg to stand on, but it’s 2022. You want something out of nothing, then go buy a new one with a warranty and you’ll be fine for a few years.
 
My 2005 Sport Edition 4runner with 218,000 miles on it wouldn't pass Pa. state inspection due to the rust. 2 fist sized holes in the main frame on the passenger side just behind the front wheel well.

Also, my clear coat was peeling off and I needed brakes. So I decided not to get it fixed and bought a 2020 TRD Pre.
 
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I agree with you to a certain extent. I realize it is old, but it only has 175K miles. I was hoping to get a few more years out of it. The frame is so badly rusted that I will probably be selling it to someone looking for a donor car. Its only real problem is the rusted frame. Repaired frames don't pass inspection around here.

Even if this suit gets off the ground, it would be 2 years before it is settles, but with the ruling against 4th gens by the NHTSA, I doubt anything will come of it. I wouldn't care so much but now is NOT the time to be buying a car. I went to 3 Toyota dealers yesterday, and if they can get one in, it would take 2 - 3 months. All their allotments are pre-sold to regular customers, and I am not one of them. In my area, a 2 year old car with 75K miles is about $2,000 less than a new one of the same model, because the used cars are on the lot, and the new cars exist only in theory.
 
moodle said:
I agree with you to a certain extent. I realize it is old, but it only has 175K miles. I was hoping to get a few more years out of it. The frame is so badly rusted that I will probably be selling it to someone looking for a donor car. Its only real problem is the rusted frame. Repaired frames don't pass inspection around here.

Even if this suit gets off the ground, it would be 2 years before it is settles, but with the ruling against 4th gens by the NHTSA, I doubt anything will come of it. I wouldn't care so much but now is NOT the time to be buying a car. I went to 3 Toyota dealers yesterday, and if they can get one in, it would take 2 - 3 months. All their allotments are pre-sold to regular customers, and I am not one of them. In my area, a 2 year old car with 75K miles is about $2,000 less than a new one of the same model, because the used cars are on the lot, and the new cars exist only in theory.
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If the frame is repairable a good Craftsman's repairs won't be noticeable if he desires.. if I was in your position that would be my only option, bust out the welder! sh1tty. Is most the damage accessible to work at. You know the law ain't gonna help nobody
 
Unfortunately salt country kills cars, I know Toyota has had a more often pointed to issue with rust; but most of the other brands I have seen from salt states/countries are not much behind.

I've seen vehicles that we get from say Canadia or from central US or East Coast are just basically done after 3-4yrs. What I mean by that is that any work you'd do on them besides swapping tires and draining fluids ends up being an exercise it trying not to damage the frame or other components removing what used to be a bolt or nut. I get it's old hat on that side of the country, but when you're having to quote out a half dozen or more additional pieces of hardware and components because taking what is left of one bolt off will result in a lot of other things breaking; I'd write the car off at that point unless you had a ton of money. Hell, I've had some vehicles that looked good until I accidentally bumped the frame/body and it crumbled like crackers.

I would say that if your 18yr old vehicle survived 175k without crumbling to dust or requiring significant replacement of sections of the vehicle, that's a win. I know I'd be heart broken if my own '04 ended up rotting away on me like that, but I'd also begrudgingly have to accept the reality of how salt just melts cars away. Until someone makes a composite frame and components that hold up as good as steel, it's just the nature of things I think...

Post Note-

I should have prefaced that the big issue with the Tacomas (particularly the 2nd gens) was that apparently Dana (who manufactured the frames for Toyota) had used/allowed/missed the poor quality metallurgy of the steel used to manufacture the frames as well as the e-coating not always being done as well as it should have been; this resulted in excessive amounts of delamination due to the corrosion caused by salt. These frames would have been produced in the US (if I remember correctly) and shipped to the NUMMI plant and later the Texas plant for assembly. So it's highly unlikely that 4Runner production was affected by this issue and unless your class action lawsuit was able to uncover evidence of similar failures of metallurgy/coating; the case would likely be dismissed or buried under legal stagnation from Toyota. Additionally Toyota only extended the warranty of the frames for the affected Tacomas by about 12-15yrs after their DOFU (Date of First Use), which is what the government(s) involved and Toyota decided was a reasonable time scale for pre-mature failure of the steel.
 
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BlackWorksInc said:
Unfortunately salt country kills cars, I know Toyota has had a more often pointed to issue with rust; but most of the other brands I have seen from salt states/countries are not much behind.

I've seen vehicles that we get from say Canadia or from central US or East Coast are just basically done after 3-4yrs. What I mean by that is that any work you'd do on them besides swapping tires and draining fluids ends up being an exercise it trying not to damage the frame or other components removing what used to be a bolt or nut. I get it's old hat on that side of the country, but when you're having to quote out a half dozen or more additional pieces of hardware and components because taking what is left of one bolt off will result in a lot of other things breaking; I'd write the car off at that point unless you had a ton of money. Hell, I've had some vehicles that looked good until I accidentally bumped the frame/body and it crumbled like crackers.

I would say that if your 18yr old vehicle survived 175k without crumbling to dust or requiring significant replacement of sections of the vehicle, that's a win. I know I'd be heart broken if my own '04 ended up rotting away on me like that, but I'd also begrudgingly have to accept the reality of how salt just melts cars away. Until someone makes a composite frame and components that hold up as good as steel, it's just the nature of things I think...

Post Note-

I should have prefaced that the big issue with the Tacomas (particularly the 2nd gens) was that apparently Dana (who manufactured the frames for Toyota) had used/allowed/missed the poor quality metallurgy of the steel used to manufacture the frames as well as the e-coating not always being done as well as it should have been; this resulted in excessive amounts of delamination due to the corrosion caused by salt. These frames would have been produced in the US (if I remember correctly) and shipped to the NUMMI plant and later the Texas plant for assembly. So it's highly unlikely that 4Runner production was affected by this issue and unless your class action lawsuit was able to uncover evidence of similar failures of metallurgy/coating; the case would likely be dismissed or buried under legal stagnation from Toyota. Additionally Toyota only extended the warranty of the frames for the affected Tacomas by about 12-15yrs after their DOFU (Date of First Use), which is what the government(s) involved and Toyota decided was a reasonable time scale for pre-mature failure of the steel.
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The Toyota engineers know better than to put a durable, lasting alloy underneath there! Hexavalent chromium pipe is what I usually weld at coal and nuke plants. I reckon they can't circle jerk around with that type of business though.. there are nanotechnology based coatings these days that they could be using also.
 
moodle said:
I agree with you to a certain extent. I realize it is old, but it only has 175K miles. I was hoping to get a few more years out of it. The frame is so badly rusted that I will probably be selling it to someone looking for a donor car. Its only real problem is the rusted frame. Repaired frames don't pass inspection around here.

Even if this suit gets off the ground, it would be 2 years before it is settles, but with the ruling against 4th gens by the NHTSA, I doubt anything will come of it. I wouldn't care so much but now is NOT the time to be buying a car. I went to 3 Toyota dealers yesterday, and if they can get one in, it would take 2 - 3 months. All their allotments are pre-sold to regular customers, and I am not one of them. In my area, a 2 year old car with 75K miles is about $2,000 less than a new one of the same model, because the used cars are on the lot, and the new cars exist only in theory.
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I get it, but it is an older vehicle now, so I don’t see how a lawsuit would do anything either. If you really want to save it the only way would be a frame swap if the body is good.
But be prepared, it’s not a simple frame swap. Hardware and suspension pieces may also need to replaced along the way, just depends on if you just get a frame or get a rolling frame.
I’m in Hawaii, so no winter salted roads here, but I know rust. I had a 91 extra cab pickup rust from the inside out. Paint was decent but noticed a lot of rust bubbling underneath.
 
Jakeepoo3 said:
The Toyota engineers know better than to put a durable, lasting alloy underneath there! Hexavalent chromium pipe is what I usually weld at coal and nuke plants. I reckon they can't circle jerk around with that type of business though.. there are nanotechnology based coatings these days that they could be using also.
Click to expand...

Because new 4Runners aren't expensive enough? lol :lmao:
 
Toyota had frame issues! Major issues!

I worked at a dealer for over a decade. We had Tundra and Sequoia frames stacked 4 high and 6-8 rows at times. Think at 1 time we had 38 frames in stock. I know FJ got the frame recall as well, so that throws out only US built vehicles having issues. These class action suits have been ongoing for years. I doubt anything will ever happen other than owners of vehicles unsafe at inspections maybe getting a very small check to offset their losses if that.

I got lucky and mine was always south of I-70, but still have some quarter size holes/blisters that started up around the cats and front wheels on inner frame rails. I've neutralized it, wire wheeled everything I could reach without removing the frame and painted with Rustoleum rust reformer paint. Only had a mild winter since, but still looks really good.

If you can't repair it to where it'll pass inspection, I'd try selling it to someone in a state that doesn't do inspections. They could repair it and wheel it to death after. I'm at 311K on 04 V8 and it runs better than most 50K vehicles I see working at a dealer still. (non Toyota now)
 
HIMILESV8SPORT said:
I worked at a dealer for over a decade. We had Tundra and Sequoia frames stacked 4 high and 6-8 rows at times. Think at 1 time we had 38 frames in stock. I know FJ got the frame recall as well, so that throws out only US built vehicles having issues. These class action suits have been ongoing for years. I doubt anything will ever happen other than owners of vehicles unsafe at inspections maybe getting a very small check to offset their losses if that.

I got lucky and mine was always south of I-70, but still have some quarter size holes/blisters that started up around the cats and front wheels on inner frame rails. I've neutralized it, wire wheeled everything I could reach without removing the frame and painted with Rustoleum rust reformer paint. Only had a mild winter since, but still looks really good.

If you can't repair it to where it'll pass inspection, I'd try selling it to someone in a state that doesn't do inspections. They could repair it and wheel it to death after. I'm at 311K on 04 V8 and it runs better than most 50K vehicles I see working at a dealer still. (non Toyota now)
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I wasn't aware of any CSPs or Recalls on FJs for the frames? I know some people wanted to file a class action? I'm just curious because in our area all we've ever had to inspect under any CSP/Recall was the Tacoma and I think the Tundra? But yeah, the stacks of frames I remember seeing pictures of back in the day when talking to an FTS and one tech that moved out from the east coast.
 
I wonder why Toyota or any other manufacturer doesn't have a recommended service interval for their frames. Every oil change they should be inspected by the dealer and a coat of fluid film applied as necessary. Its a serviceable item like any other part of the vehicle.
 
4r-4ever said:
i wonder why they don't just galvanize the frame and paint. if toyota did this, a lot will buy that model for sure.
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I would wager that there is no issues in the sales of these... as history has shown lol. Neither new from dealer, nor almost 20 years used for private sales.

Would it be nice to have improvements on the rust issue.. but I doubt it would drive the sales up any.
 
Well it was just after I left. I'd noticed a lifted FJ sitting out back everytime I went to get some parts and was misinformed it was a frame recall from a tech. Talked to the service manager recently and was told due to the customer's service and sales and history Toyota helped him out with the frame. He didn't get anymore details than that.
 
I just had a 20 minute interview with them today and it seems very promising. And even if it doesn’t go anywhere what’s 20 mins of my time and a few pictures of the rust sent to them for a possibility to have the frame replaced? It’s worth a shot.
 
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