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Old 09-28-2022, 10:24 AM #16
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Originally Posted by ckisling View Post
Iím mechanically inclined and have done done extensive stuff to this 4runner and my daughters that is the same year just the v6. I just donít know what other tests to do or take it to another local mechanic? The mechanics itís at now seem like they are price gouging and not wanting to see if it can be done without full engine replacement. Plus the car is 45 miles from me and they know that.


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Buy a leak down tester that goes to around 100 psi and listen for where it's leaking. Soapy water also foams around a leak under pressure, although limited visibility here. Seems odd that 4 cylinders that aren't even next to each other would all fail, more common to have them fail next to each other and compression from one leaks through the open valve of the adjacent cylinder.
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Old 09-28-2022, 10:44 AM #17
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I thought the same thing on those cylinders. I have a trusted mechanic here in Fort Collins that I think Iíll get it too and have him investigate a little further three decide what I need to do. I suppose I can pull it all apart in the garage as I have another car I can use for the next few months and rebuild it if needed at my own pace. Iíve just never done anything that extensive but I can if I keep track of the parts meticulously. The 4runner is in great shape body frame inside and out so I hate to just scrap it but I donít have $10k to pour into it especially if itís worth $8k


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Old 09-28-2022, 03:16 PM #18
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Head gaskets or even a swap aren't so bad. Buy a leakdown tester either way though. You'll want to check percentages after you get the head back from the shop, assuming it needs some machine work and you want to get valves done while it's out. Both engines I've done head gaskets on came back worse after the machine shops than they were before, miscut valves and seats. Second one they redid and it was fine, except for all the shims needing to be redone then. Best way to see how they did is with a leakdown test. You can get a rough idea by doing like this vid, so save your old head gaskets

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Old 09-28-2022, 10:38 PM #19
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Thanks Jbtvt!! I found out today they did a leak down test and it passed then they then did the compression test and 4of the 8 cylinders failed at 40psi or less. They donít rebuild engines like that at their shop so they priced a complete replace of a rebuilt engine. Iím going to look into options of me pulling it and getting to a machine shop then ordering larger pistons or see what a local shop that is reputable might charge? Any advice is appreciated!!


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Old 09-28-2022, 11:44 PM #20
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Originally Posted by ckisling View Post
Thanks Jbtvt!! I found out today they did a leak down test and it passed then they then did the compression test and 4of the 8 cylinders failed at 40psi or less. They don’t rebuild engines like that at their shop so they priced a complete replace of a rebuilt engine. I’m going to look into options of me pulling it and getting to a machine shop then ordering larger pistons or see what a local shop that is reputable might charge? Any advice is appreciated!!


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Just an FYI, Toyota does sell a brand new "short block" ...i.e. (engine block with pistons and crankshaft assembly) for your T4R V8, the price ranges from around $5000 to $5500 and up if you purchase online, you may be able to get it for less if you find a dealer that sells online that has one and is offering a further periodic discount.

I did a search and found a dealer in MA that does sell the short block and it's around $4900, if you could pick it up would save on shipping...their site does say "Free shipping on orders over $75" but has restrictions so may not apply to the short block.

Link...2 different listings for the V8 short block so if you pursue this make sure you check them to see if they indeed have the correct short block for your V8

CYLINDER BLOCK. 2004 Toyota 4Runner SR-5 4.7L 2WD | Woburn Toyota, Woburn MA
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Old 09-29-2022, 12:45 AM #21
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Originally Posted by ckisling View Post
Thanks Jbtvt!! I found out today they did a leak down test and it passed then they then did the compression test and 4of the 8 cylinders failed at 40psi or less. They donít rebuild engines like that at their shop so they priced a complete replace of a rebuilt engine. Iím going to look into options of me pulling it and getting to a machine shop then ordering larger pistons or see what a local shop that is reputable might charge? Any advice is appreciated!!


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This is still the same shop that said 4 cylinders not close to each other are all bad? Hmm... Maybe someone else knows differently but I've never heard of passing a leakdown but failing compression test. The compression has to be leaking from somewhere. Maybe if you broke a rod? But all 4? Nah. Also, a leakdown is significantly more involved than a compression test, so if both are going to be performed everyone I've ever known does the compression test first to see if a leakdown is even worth doing. Smells fishy. Don't worry about buying any parts until you find out what it needs. Get a second opinion before anything if you're not confident doing the test yourself.
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Old 09-29-2022, 08:48 AM #22
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Originally Posted by jbtvt View Post
This is still the same shop that said 4 cylinders not close to each other are all bad? Hmm... Maybe someone else knows differently but I've never heard of passing a leakdown but failing compression test. The compression has to be leaking from somewhere. Maybe if you broke a rod? But all 4? Nah. Also, a leakdown is significantly more involved than a compression test, so if both are going to be performed everyone I've ever known does the compression test first to see if a leakdown is even worth doing. Smells fishy. Don't worry about buying any parts until you find out what it needs. Get a second opinion before anything if you're not confident doing the test yourself.
For a leak down test you have to get the valves closed on the cylinder being tested and compression is not involved, a compression test is done by turning over the engine to get the compression stroke/s to make compression, if one of the cams is out of timing and not closing the valves fully on the compression stroke this could explain why it passed the leak down test but not the compression test on 4 cylinders.

But in this case being that the cylinders he has listed that failed the compression test aren't on the same bank/cam, so something else is to blame if these tests were done correctly.
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Old 09-29-2022, 11:08 AM #23
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Yes I am not sure about this shops testing. Now he said itís the 2,5,7 and 8 cylinders. Iím getting it towed to the shop my friend trusts and have them look at it. Then once I have a correct diagnosis Iíll either look into doing it myself or having them do it. Thanks for the info in the short block good to know. I found a complete remanufactured crate engine 2uzfe for $4785 from Fraser Engines. I look them up and they have good reviews and have been around since the 60ís all work done in USA, but who knows?


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Old 09-30-2022, 12:40 AM #24
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Quote:
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For a leak down test you have to get the valves closed on the cylinder being tested and compression is not involved, a compression test is done by turning over the engine to get the compression stroke/s to make compression, if one of the cams is out of timing and not closing the valves fully on the compression stroke this could explain why it passed the leak down test but not the compression test on 4 cylinders.

But in this case being that the cylinders he has listed that failed the compression test aren't on the same bank/cam, so something else is to blame if these tests were done correctly.
While it's fair to say engine-generated compression isn't involved, a leakdown percentage generally aligns with the percentage of original compression retained. Assuming you've also done them, but for OP, an engine low on compression due to a head gasket will audibly blow air though the valves of the adjacent cylinder, bubbles in the coolant, or elsewhere, and will show a low number on the second leakdown gauge. Low compression from a burnt exhaust valve will blow through the exhaust and show a similarly low number on the leakdown gauge, and so on. Most compression issues are diagnosable to a greater degree with a leakdown than a compression test, and the less common ones are usually obvious without one, for example if the entire bank was out of time, as mentioned.
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Old 09-30-2022, 05:16 PM #25
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The 4.7L is one of the most overbuilt, undertuned, and totally robust engines on the planet. IIRC, the engine was used in 1998-2004 Land Cruisers, which were used in some really beastly conditions in mission-critical settings.

I have a feeling you'll be just fine but as one of the other posters said, inspect the oil for metal shavings before concluding same. If it's running well after 100 miles or so, chalk it up to Just One Of Those Things.





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Originally Posted by werminghausen View Post
I changed the timing belt after 200k miles (3rd belt) and I have forgotten to fasten one cooling hose properly

What happened, the hose from the thermostat to the radiator popped off and I lost 2.5 gallons of fluid (from total 3.2 gallon total) and the engine overheated dramatically... I did not realize this cruising on the highway.
I heard unusual mechanical engine noises and then I saw the temperature gauge in the red zone,. also the CEL was on.
I stopped and shut the engine off. I was very uncertain if I already damaged something.



After shut engine down I saw that the one coolant hose came off and I lost most of the fluid.
On the highway I did not get the typical smoke/vapor as a sign for overheating... only when I slowed down the car.
Also I did not get a low fluid lever dash light. I saw after the fact that the check engine light came on and also

I waited for the engine to cool down and meanwhile I got some water... I connected the hose back to the thermostat housing and filled 2 1/2gallons of water (what I lost) back to the cooling system. In the beginning there was still a lot of vapor coming out.

The car started normally and I could drive home. The engine seemed to work normally. (As i had no tools to connect the hose properly I left the cap open, so no pressure could build up)

The engine ran about 100miles meanwhile and I cannot see any difference or strange behavior. Am I just lucky and nothing bad happened....or it there some aftermath with this incidence?
Questions:

-Might the engine have some damage after severe overheating?

-What can be the consequence in that event of severe overheating.


After the incident I am questioning.
Why did I not get a proper warning for low coolant level or serious overheating?
Does Toyota not have these basic warning lights.

As I said I did get the high temperature reading but no acoustical or warning signal or low fluid level.

Best, Martin
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Old 10-11-2022, 10:17 PM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by werminghausen View Post
I changed the timing belt after 200k miles (3rd belt) and I have forgotten to fasten one cooling hose properly

What happened, the hose from the thermostat to the radiator popped off and I lost 2.5 gallons of fluid (from total 3.2 gallon total) and the engine overheated dramatically... I did not realize this cruising on the highway.
I heard unusual mechanical engine noises and then I saw the temperature gauge in the red zone,. also the CEL was on.
I stopped and shut the engine off. I was very uncertain if I already damaged something.



After shut engine down I saw that the one coolant hose came off and I lost most of the fluid.
On the highway I did not get the typical smoke/vapor as a sign for overheating... only when I slowed down the car.
Also I did not get a low fluid lever dash light. I saw after the fact that the check engine light came on and also

I waited for the engine to cool down and meanwhile I got some water... I connected the hose back to the thermostat housing and filled 2 1/2gallons of water (what I lost) back to the cooling system. In the beginning there was still a lot of vapor coming out.

The car started normally and I could drive home. The engine seemed to work normally. (As i had no tools to connect the hose properly I left the cap open, so no pressure could build up)

The engine ran about 100miles meanwhile and I cannot see any difference or strange behavior. Am I just lucky and nothing bad happened....or it there some aftermath with this incidence?
Questions:

-Might the engine have some damage after severe overheating?

-What can be the consequence in that event of severe overheating.


After the incident I am questioning.
Why did I not get a proper warning for low coolant level or serious overheating?
Does Toyota not have these basic warning lights.

As I said I did get the high temperature reading but no acoustical or warning signal or low fluid level.

Best, Martin
I have had this same thing happen to my engine. Forget about "diagnosing" it, it is junk and needs to be repaired. All engines, regardless of manufacturer, suffer some amount of unrecoverable damage after overheating. In the case of the 2UZ-FE, the heads are the first thing to warp. The warpage occurs between the cylinder walls which tends to suck in coolant and blow it out the exhaust at a minimum or at a maximum, severely lower the engine power at high RPM's due to exhaust gas "overlap" between cylinders. Do yourself a favor and find 2 replacement heads from another engine which was not overheated, take the heads to get decked, pull a vacuum on them and have all the valves and seats checked and simply rebuild the top end of your engine and be confident that you have addressed the issue.

In the case of my T4R, I installed a digital cylinder head temperature gauge which shows real time temperature of the actual aluminum in the heads so that I can know if my engine is ever going near overheating in the future and catch it before it does. I also did not like that there is no coolant level warning feature and figured that cylinder head temp is a good indicator of actual engine temperature.
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Old 10-12-2022, 03:28 PM #27
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Been a month and half since OP reported anything, so may be able to assume all is well if he is driving it every day.
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Old 11-15-2022, 09:24 PM #28
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Update November 2022

After the overheating event I put about 2500miles on the engine and I cannot tell any difference in behavior. Also I am checking engine oil levels once in a while but also here I cannot see any increase in oil consumption of the engine.
Also no leaks around the engine.
I guess this is good news. Amazing!

Now I still have the generic coolant (yellowish) in the radiator. I meanwhile bought the purple Toyota stuff (Autohaus AZ was cheapest) but had no time so far to drain and put the Toyota coolant in.
How much of a religion is that coolant? If important I'll try and put it in before winter kicks in here... or I'll do it in spring.

Thanks, Martin
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Old 11-15-2022, 09:45 PM #29
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Hi Duffdog,

It seems I was lucky ...at least so far 2500 miles after the overheating event all seems 'normal'. No excessive oil usage and no coolant 'losses' that I could report of.
You mention power loss... but I cannot report about a power loss either.

So maybe 2003V8LTD was right saying 'you may be just fine'... well let's say I am lucky for now?

[The 4.7L is one of the most overbuilt, undertuned, and totally robust engines on the planet. IIRC, the engine was used in 1998-2004 Land Cruisers, which were used in some really beastly conditions in mission-critical settings.I have a feeling you'll be just fine but as one of the other posters said, inspect the oil for metal shavings before concluding same. If it's running well after 100 miles or so, chalk it up to Just One Of Those Things.]


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I have had this same thing happen to my engine. Forget about "diagnosing" it, it is junk and needs to be repaired. All engines, regardless of manufacturer, suffer some amount of unrecoverable damage after overheating. In the case of the 2UZ-FE, the heads are the first thing to warp. The warpage occurs between the cylinder walls which tends to suck in coolant and blow it out the exhaust at a minimum or at a maximum, severely lower the engine power at high RPM's due to exhaust gas "overlap" between cylinders. Do yourself a favor and find 2 replacement heads from another engine which was not overheated, take the heads to get decked, pull a vacuum on them and have all the valves and seats checked and simply rebuild the top end of your engine and be confident that you have addressed the issue.

In the case of my T4R, I installed a digital cylinder head temperature gauge which shows real time temperature of the actual aluminum in the heads so that I can know if my engine is ever going near overheating in the future and catch it before it does. I also did not like that there is no coolant level warning feature and figured that cylinder head temp is a good indicator of actual engine temperature.
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