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Old 11-19-2022, 12:48 PM #31
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Rust repairs are expensive unless you can weld yourself, we're at the mercy of those who can! If you are going to spend the $$ to get your frame repaired I would definitely get the rear bump stop back in place.
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Old 11-19-2022, 01:39 PM #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4runherpow View Post
@rdruss

Heck yea, man. Toyota needs to address this! I'll donate some time if need be but have very low expectations as well.

Update on repair options:

Took her too Off-road Innovations in Winchester, VA. Nice crew they got there. John walked through the underside with me. Good news is that not too much more in way of suspicious spots that need immediate attention. His initial estimate/recommendation - which I'll revisit some of this - are as follows:

-Safe T Cap both front A-arms. This is where I'll need to chat about "why" both. The front passenger perhaps is bad enough to justify a long section like Safe T Cap. The drivers side just looks like it needs a small plate.

Both front safety caps and labor - $2,400 (16 hours labor)

-Wire wheel entire frame, coat with rust inhibitor, seal with POR-15. I noted that issues can arise from inside out, which they are well aware of. However, he said that they do not have a decent way of removing debris from inside (cost prohibitive if they attempted this). But by doing the rust mitigation and seal on the outside a) they drop the fuel tank so they would be able to fix that strap without extra labor, and b) it will help at least slow down the outside progression, plus make the frame look consistent if an inspector was wondering about a repair job.

$1,400 to do this.

I would try to bring this down to $3,500 out the door. I do think this is high. But my area seems to be elevated on cost, for everything really.

One of my thoughts is the passenger side does not need a Safe T Cap and that time+materials should be cut down. My goal is to get all this under $3K. This also does not address the holes in the rear bumper area or the bumpstop. MY plan for the rear holes is to metal plaster patch them after they complete their work. My thought is, yes, they are frame homes but they are in the edge of the rear bumper area where there's no suspension parts connected, etc. They are not really load bearing. So I'll fill them and move on.

Am I thinking along the right lines here?

@MikeinNH67

I'm thinking that I need to get another 3-4 years out of this frame. Then I'll probably have around 210-225K on the whole vehicle. If I do well financially, I'll give her to a place like this Off-Road Innovations and say, Here's $40-50k take her for next 6 months and go new frame, rebuild the FU-Z (325hp+), entire suspension rebuild, repaint, restore interior. Basically try and make her as new as possible. That's the dream at least, lol
Good luck on the repairs, I hope it goes well!

As far as 3-4 years down the road and dumping $40-$50K into a total restoration, I would instead invest that money into another 4th Gens that has a good frame and low miles for about half that much money with plenty left over to do whatever upgrades you want....or for that much money you can get a low mileage 5th Gen.
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Old 11-19-2022, 04:43 PM #33
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Your labor cost for welding sounds a little high IMO, same with the #of hours. I'd be curious what a complete frame swap costs at that point.

Also, in my opinion you don't really need safe-t-caps for something like this. You can do just as good of a repair, if not better using flat bar cutoffs (nearly free). I did some pretty extensive rust repair on my 3rd gen. Here are a few pictures that might give you an idea of what can be done.










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Old 11-19-2022, 07:57 PM #34
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Here's a couple youtube videos to watch:
"4th Gen 4Runner Frame Center Section Rust Repair Kit-Taboo Customs"
" SafeTCap Install on 4-Runner"
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Old 11-21-2022, 04:29 PM #35
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Dang, that's a ton of dough. I just think of all the tools I can buy with it and doing the work myself.

My opinion is if you are paying someone to do the work then I would price the labor for the clean southern frame swap. Even if it costs a bit more you should never have to touch it again. Sadly these close to 20 year old frames that have lived in the rust belt all their lives have a limited life span, you just don't know where the next hole will show up.

I also signed up for the class action suit but doubt anything will come about.
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Old 11-23-2022, 11:04 PM #36
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Thanks for all of the replies and ideas. Love the creativity and how people really put the effort in to keeping their trucks running.

I thought the price was high too and I did a little more digging into the estimate. One thing that puzzled me was the SafeTcap recommendation for the driver side hole. The driver side A-arm only has a hole on the side of the rail about a silver dollar size. Itís pretty clear in the pics I posted that the metal around the hole seems pretty solid. I brought this up to the service manager who walked under the truck with me and wrote the estimate. I was a little disappointed with the customer service, tbh.

When I brought up that I thought a SafeTcap might be a little over kill for that side and that I was fine with the passenger side, but I wanted to explore most cost effective options for the driver side. I had been told by two other fabricators that the driver side could be fixed with a plate and be solid. The service manager at OffRoad Innovations was not willing to explore this option. He couldnít give a reason why, he just said that he was more comfortable with an entire cap. The two other fabricators are booked till spring.

Of course, this is probably another $1k in labor additional than doing a plate. I addressed this with him and he basically ignored my comment and just said they are experts and heís not changing his mind.

Disappointing, I was ready to pull the trigger and go with them but their unwillingness to even take another look or address the fact that they were the only one out of three opinions that said a SafeTcap on that was was a must.

Again, any suggestions on welders in northern va? Lol

Happy thanksgiving everyone
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Old 11-24-2022, 11:50 AM #37
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For enjoyment watch youtube video " Total Frame Replacement in Less than 8 Minutes!"
Read the notes by the dealer in comments, they name the dealership, technician and time it took: 2 days!! This is done on an '06 Sequoia. Even if it took 4 days, that would be a deal IMO!
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Old 11-25-2022, 08:08 PM #38
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Are there drain holes on the frames? I have 2 holes on the passenger side of my 06 right under front seat that look like drain holes with some rust around them.
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Old 11-25-2022, 10:32 PM #39
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Yes, there are some drain holes, probably not enough! Rust around the ones under your pass side door probably being aggravated by your AC drain that pukes right on top of the frame in engine compartment and then the condensate follows the frame down to where it collects under the pass side door. Re-route that line.
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Old 11-26-2022, 08:38 AM #40
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@rdruss

That video is awesome! This might be my new backup plan. Iíll have to call them and get some info.

Does anyone have thoughts on adhesive bonding? Given the size of my holes I think I might be a candidate. Apparently, the adhesive technology has really gotten stronger over the last few years. This article says that welding may work but adhesives are becoming more popular.

Thoughts?

Adhesive Bonding or Welding? The Answer May Surprise You - Wiley Metal
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Old 11-26-2022, 10:33 AM #41
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Anyone have any ideas on how to best clean out the frame? Lots of debris up in there.
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Old 11-26-2022, 08:27 PM #42
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*Please Help* Holes in frame rail - pics included

I do this type of work for a living and $3500 is not far from where I would charge for something like this. There will be many different opinions as to what you should do. However I would recommended if you do decide to fix it to fix it properly this time so you do not have to keep bringing it back to be fixed. The most concerning hole to me would be the one which looks to be on the rear bumper reinforcement. If itís rotted behind the plastic bumper cover it would need replaced. I worked on an 08 last month and it required dropping the fuel tank and spare tire to get to the problem areas. The front frames near the control arms are very common. The safetcap frame sections are the way to go in my opinion unless you do a full frame swap. However the rear bumper is only available from Toyota as far as I know. The best way to clear the frame of the silt youíre talking about is when it is repaired. If you go to a good company they will clean it out when preparing the frame for the new sections of frame.

The possible reason for the safetcap recommendation on the driver side is the people who work on vehicle frames know, if youíre going to fix it, fix it properly the first time. The hole may only be the size of a quarter but once it is being worked on it generally expands, being as the vehicle has been exposed to road salt for many years.

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Last edited by moshrider3; 11-26-2022 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 11-27-2022, 01:06 AM #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuSeeker View Post
Good luck on the repairs, I hope it goes well!

As far as 3-4 years down the road and dumping $40-$50K into a total restoration, I would instead invest that money into another 4th Gens that has a good frame and low miles for about half that much money with plenty left over to do whatever upgrades you want....or for that much money you can get a low mileage 5th Gen.

5th gens suck. Owned a brand new one. Went back to the 4th gen after.

And totally agree on a new frame one. However, ideal would be to replace this rigs frame - 180k, tons of service done, she drives amazing. I go buy another one and odds are I have to do all these services again and I end up net-net and it’s a wash. And with a rig I know nothing about. This one’s dependable. I know her. Can’t underestimate that as a store of value.

Last edited by 4runherpow; 11-27-2022 at 01:41 AM.
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Old 11-27-2022, 01:10 AM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moshrider3 View Post
I do this type of work for a living and $3500 is not far from where I would charge for something like this. There will be many different opinions as to what you should do. However I would recommended if you do decide to fix it to fix it properly this time so you do not have to keep bringing it back to be fixed. The most concerning hole to me would be the one which looks to be on the rear bumper reinforcement. If itís rotted behind the plastic bumper cover it would need replaced. I worked on an 08 last month and it required dropping the fuel tank and spare tire to get to the problem areas. The front frames near the control arms are very common. The safetcap frame sections are the way to go in my opinion unless you do a full frame swap. However the rear bumper is only available from Toyota as far as I know. The best way to clear the frame of the silt youíre talking about is when it is repaired. If you go to a good company they will clean it out when preparing the frame for the new sections of frame.

The possible reason for the safetcap recommendation on the driver side is the people who work on vehicle frames know, if youíre going to fix it, fix it properly the first time. The hole may only be the size of a quarter but once it is being worked on it generally expands, being as the vehicle has been exposed to road salt for many years.

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Thanks for the insights. Why would you say the rear frame hole under the rear bumper is more dangerous than the front A-arm hole that runs the seem?
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Old 11-28-2022, 10:55 PM #45
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Any opinions on using adhesive bonding to fix small-medium sized holes? Thereís some new information out there on the strength of new adhesives.

Any thought or prior use of these types of fixes?
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