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Old 07-13-2016, 09:21 PM #1
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Question P0174, Rough Idle & Strong Exhaust Smell

I'm hoping someone here can shine some light on some issues my wife's '05 V8 T4R is experiencing.

About 8 months ago, it started throwing codes and smelling very strong through the exhaust. (I can't remember what the codes were now, but pretty sure it was P0171 and P0173 possibly) but it led me to changing the upstream O2 sensors, gas tank cap, as well as the MAF sensor.. The gas tank cap didn't change anything, MAF didn't seem to help, but once i changed the upstream o2 sensors, it seemed to help. We drove it for a while like this and the exhaust smell was not nearly as strong. Then about 3 months ago when we got the vacuum cleaner sound under the hood during cold startup (secondary air injection system failure). I purchased the bypass kit (without plates) from slyfox here on the forum and installed it, and it bypassed the system. I was getting error codes that said stuck closed, so thought i was in the clear. Car seemed to run great until the past 2 weeks. Now we have the following.

P0174 Code (keeps coming back after resetting it)
Rough Idle (like an intermittent miss). Especially bad when in gear at a stoplight
Hesitation when you accelerate with slight throttle
Very strong gas/un-burnt fuel like odor from the exhaust, not rotten egg smell.
The car runs perfect (or seems to when under full throttle). Also seems to run fine or much better until the car gets up to temperature.

I checked for vacuum leaks by spraying carb cleaner around all the vacuum lines i could find, cleaned throttle body, ran fuel system cleaner through it a few times, checked the spark plugs (they look normal), switched to 100% premium gas and nothing has helped.

EDIT:
I have also added the secondary air injection bypass plates to try and see if they may have been slightly stuck "open" and thought that would 100% isolate it being that system from being the culprit, and the issue still remains. After installing the plates, we drove the car for about 5 miles and it ran perfectly, then right as we got home it started doing it again.

Update: 7/21/16
I rented a fuel pressure tester today. Car holds a steady 42psi of fuel pressure, even when the engine starts running rough after it warms up and throws the p0174 code. I let it idle and ran it up and down to 2500rpms a few times and no change... so Fuel Pressure looks good.. It also held good pressure for up to 10-15 minutes after I turned the car off. It only ever dropped down to 40psi... So I guess I can rule out the fuel pump and pressure regulator/etc..

Any ideas? I have read through a bunch of threads and some think it could be injector or fuel pump related. Has anyone had a similar issue or any suggestion on where to look next? Any help is greatly appreciated!

Update: 8/11/16
I figured out the problem. It was a faulty Upstream A/F Sensor that I had replaced a year ago. I swapped the sensors from side to side and the problem swapped sides. Replaced the sensor and all is good now. Hope this thread helps someone else out!

Update: 9/22/17
The car is still experiencing the same issues. It seems as though replacing the front A/F Sensors were just masking a larger problem that I have yet to trace down. I will keep you posted on any discoveries I make. Right now, i'm leaning toward an intermittently failing injector since the problem is hit/miss... runs fine for a while, then goes back into running rough/throwing codes/smelling like raw fuel.. then back to normal...

Update: 11/3/17
May have discovered another rabbit hole to go down with this issue. A fellow member here with similar has discovered that there is an issue with ATF fluid making its way up the cabling from the ATF sensor and up into the ECU and down into the A/F and O2 Sensor connectors. Out of curiosity, I took the glove compartment off and checked my main ECU connectors, and sure enough the 2nd one down and all 3 blow it have a fluid on them. Its not much, but is definitely not supposed to be there. I have yet to investigate my A/F sensor connectors, but the last time that I swapped them out, i do remember noticing the passenger side one was full of a brownish fluid. At the time i assumed it was just the dielectric grease i put in there got hot... but its clearly a different issue altogether. You can follow his thread here: oil wicking up my o2 sensor wire harness? - Toyota 4Runner Forum - Largest 4Runner Forum

Update: 10/23/18
Just another update. Light came on a few months ago again and the exhaust smell returned as well. Checked with the torque pro app and i'm "lean bank 2" again so its dumping fuel again... Cleaned all connectors even on the o2 sensors and cleared codes multiple times... code finally stayed off for a bit, but watching my fuel trims i'm still dumping fuel on bank 2... Something has to be causing my o2 sensors to slowly fail... i definitely have oil in my ecu and connectors but not much at all... i'm thinking it has to be a secondary issue at this point and that there is something causing my o2 sensors to go bad overtime on that bank for whatever reason... any ideas?

Update: 6/15/21
It has been doing this off and on for the last few years still. I hardly drive the car unless I need to haul my bikes somewhere so it sits most of the time now. Sometimes it will run fine, and sometimes it will run and be pulling tons of fuel (per torque pro app). Still no resolution on what the problem is, just wanted to give everyone an update and see if anyone else had figured out a possible solution. I am now throwing a P0172 & P0175 code pretty consistently.

I will keep updating this thread as well with any other discoveries that we make... hoping this helps someone else out in the future. Seems like a very very strange issue.
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Old 07-14-2016, 05:12 PM #2
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I'll be checking in on this thread as I have some of those same symptoms. I've been smelling the strong (rich) exhaust smell since I've owned my 4th generation V8 in February. Finally a few weeks ago it threw the P0031 so I replaced bank 1 sensor 1 O2 sensor then reset the computer, and exactly 10 mins later it threw P0051 so I replaced bank 2 sensor 1, reset the computer and bingo no more lights my dash. It also cleared up SOME of the rich exhaust smell but it still remains. Oh and I had been experiencing some hard starts and that cleared up as well. Just some info. Good luck


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Old 07-14-2016, 05:50 PM #3
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I took the 4runner into a local toyota shop yesterday. Great/honest guys, and very reasonably priced... They scanned through it and said that it was likely the bypass system that i installed that was causing the issue. They said that the valves were likely stuck open and that was causing a vacuum leak. I told them when it failed the codes were "stuck closed", but they didn't want to dig any further. Suggested replacement of the secondary air system which I don't want to do right now due to $. I ordered some block off plates to see if that helps if there is a vacuum leak at all at the SAIS that should block it off and isolate it to some other problem. After that if that doesn't fix it, i'm going to check the fuel pressure next.
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:00 AM #4
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Well I installed the block-off plates and the problem is still there once the vehicle warms up. I guess my next course of action is fuel pressure check to test the fuel pump, and then possibly injectors? Anyone else have any insight or ideas of what I may need to look for next? Have the vehicle smoke checked? Any help is greatly appreciated.
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Old 07-19-2016, 11:18 AM #5
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I too have developed a bit of a rough idle on cold start with the sweet smell.....just in time for a Vegas trip next Tuesday.
This morning it threw a check engine light. UGH

Not sure where to even start.
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Old 07-19-2016, 03:29 PM #6
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I have a v6 so maybe different problem, same symptoms. I had persistent P0171 and P0174 issues. I replaced all of the following to no avail:

MAF
CTS
Injectors
AF/O2
Coils
Fuel Pump
Added O2 bungs
Plugs
Vacuum Tubing

And the answer was (hold for it...)

CATALYTIC CONVERTERS

My 4Runner has high mileage so I didn't mind experimenting but it can get expensive. I did all my own work. I bought Eastern Catalytic Eco III Direct Fit cats. My Runner idles like the day I bought it. I have to look down at the tach to make sure it's still running.
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Old 07-19-2016, 03:38 PM #7
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Nostromo
I had sort of suspected the cats as well. We had them replaced about 3 years ago under an extended TSB for the really really bad rotten egg smell and they replaced everything to the catback. I will see if i can have them tested and figure out if they are faulty/clogged, etc... I did use a cheap scanner tool that tied in with Torque Pro and the cats looked ok, but honestly i didn't really know what i was looking at...

Thanks for the suggestion and i will let you know what i find once i get someone to test them.
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:35 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostromo View Post
I have a v6 so maybe different problem, same symptoms. I had persistent P0171 and P0174 issues. I replaced all of the following to no avail:

MAF
CTS
Injectors
AF/O2
Coils
Fuel Pump
Added O2 bungs
Plugs
Vacuum Tubing

And the answer was (hold for it...)

CATALYTIC CONVERTERS

My 4Runner has high mileage so I didn't mind experimenting but it can get expensive. I did all my own work. I bought Eastern Catalytic Eco III Direct Fit cats. My Runner idles like the day I bought it. I have to look down at the tach to make sure it's still running.

so are you saying you had the sweet smell and a cat replacement fixed the issue?

what are the codes P0171 and P0174?
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Old 07-20-2016, 10:21 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 810moto View Post
so are you saying you had the sweet smell and a cat replacement fixed the issue?

what are the codes P0171 and P0174?
Lean fuel mixture left and right bank.

I've always had strong cat exhaust smells. The biggest clue for me (which is counter-intuitive to the lean codes) is the plugs, especially bank 2, were wet.

To the Op... if you had your cats replaced 3 years ago and you've had no failures, like a blown head gasket, I would be hesitant to suspect those. Cats last way longer than that. Get that fuel pressure checked. Also, my fuel injectors were in horrible shape after 11 years. I replaced those first and only after they didn't clear the codes did I replace the cats.
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Old 07-21-2016, 10:01 PM #10
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So, some additional info. I rented a fuel pressure tester today and got it hooked up earlier.. Car holds a steady 42psi of fuel pressure, even when the engine starts running rough after it warms up and throws the p0174 code. I let it idle and ran it up and down to 2500rpms a few times and no change... so Fuel Pressure looks good.. It also held good pressure for up to 10-15 minutes after I turned the car off. It only ever dropped down to 40psi... So I guess I can rule out the fuel pump and pressure regulator/etc...

I guess i'm back to a possible vacuum leak? may try to find a place that will smoke test it locally if possible.

Thanks again in advance for any further ideas!
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Old 07-24-2016, 08:25 PM #11
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Another quick update. I went ahead and swapped the rear o2 sensors and changed out all sparkplugs as well. The car ran perfect until it warmed up again and still has the p0174 and dumping fuel ;( next will be smoke testing to look for vacuum leaks. any other suggestions?
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Old 07-27-2016, 09:43 PM #12
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Still haven't had a chance to smoke test the car. I did however hook up a friends obd2 scanner with the torque pro app. Noticed the short term fuel trim was very high on bank 2 once the car started running rough. So something is still amiss... i'm now leaning toward intake gasket or exhaust leak? Any ideas? or anything else that i could be looking for in that app that would help me narrow it down?
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Old 07-28-2016, 11:19 AM #13
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The fact that you have a V8 and I have the V6 makes me wary of offering false hope but since you are going to start digging a little deeper looking for an air intake leak I recommend pulling the fuel injectors and giving them a good look.

I will say before I fixed my problem my LT fuel trims were stupid high too but again I had a clogged cat and I don't think that's your problem.
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Old 07-28-2016, 11:41 AM #14
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Thanks Nostromo,
I am not really sure what to look for with the injectors, but i may take a look at them as well...

last night I hooked up an OBD2 scanner with an android app called Torque Pro... i'm not super familiar with how to use it but at least verified that the car is dumping fuel on the bank 2 from detecting something happening... i will attach some photos below...

Also, there is a photo i will attach of the sparkplugs and rear o2 sensors that came out... pretty obvious which ones came out of bank 2 (passenger side)...

While car was warming up but didn't feel the "miss" yet...


After car was warmed up and the "miss was present"


What the sparkplugs and o2 sensors looked like.
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Old 07-29-2016, 09:14 AM #15
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Well i messed with the car again last night, put my air compressor on the exhaust pipe and taped it up really good... then sprayed soapy water all over all connections... i have a few small exhaust leaks, but nothing major... then hooked it up to the intake... and found a leak on the intake manifold on the drivers side... i know it needs to be replaced regardless, but would a drivers side intake manifold leak cause the passenger side (bank 2) to read a lean condition? shouldn't it be the drivers side that would throw the error?
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