Found this article on the web..i guess its the dealers not doing a good job..i once had a regular oil change at expressway for my camry and the dorks had replacement oil. The next day once the engine heated up..i could see fumes out of the bonnet..took the car directly back to the place..and demanded that they clean it..they did it without a quip..

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October 12, 2004
Why Are Honda CR-V's Catching Fire?
By JEREMY W. PETERS

ETROIT, Oct. 8 - With barely 10,000 miles on the odometer of his 2003 Honda CR-V sport utility vehicle, the only thing Steve Elder expected to smell inside was that new- car scent.

But as he drove home after having the oil changed last December, his CR-V began to fill with smoke.

"So I got out, obviously, checked under the hood and saw flames coming out of the engine," said Mr. Elder, a 35-year-old financial planner from North Yarmouth, Me.

It was not long before the entire vehicle - and a pair of diamond earrings Mr. Elder had bought his wife for Christmas - were consumed by the fire.

Mr. Elder's vehicle was one of at least 60 new CR-V's nationwide to catch fire suddenly while on the road. In most cases, the vehicles had just been serviced for their first oil changes.

While no injuries have been reported, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has reopened and upgraded an investigation into the CR-V to determine what is making some of them suddenly burst into flames, in many cases destroying the vehicles. The expanded inquiry covers about 280,000 CR-V's in the 2003 and 2004 model years.

So far, the investigation has yielded nothing but finger-pointing, with Honda blaming dealerships for mishandling oil changes and consumer groups accusing the automaker of dodging responsibility.

"The core issue for us is the issue of improper installation of the oil filter," said a Honda spokesman, Andy Boyd. "There doesn't seem to be anything else that we can point to."

In the new phase of its investigation, the safety agency is looking beyond the oil filter to see what other factors could be contributing to the CR-V fires.

Rae Tyson, a spokesman for the agency, said, "In this instance, both N.H.T.S.A. and Honda initially thought it was merely a problem with not executing the oil change properly, and that there didn't seem to be anything inherently wrong with the vehicle."

Mr. Tyson added that while the agency had not found any evidence of a manufacturer's defect, the manufacturing and design of the CR-V are two of several subjects investigators are now studying.

Honda and the safety administration thought they had resolved the CR-V fires problem this summer. In July, the agency closed a preliminary investigation into fires involving 2003 model CR-V's after Honda said the problem was a result of faulty oil changes.

According to documents from the safety administration, Honda said that in many of the vehicles that caught fire, mechanics had either not properly installed a new oil filter seal or had failed to remove the factory-installed seal before putting in the new one.

With the two seals in place at one time, the new oil filter could not create enough suction to prevent oil from leaking out and spilling onto the car's hot exhaust system. With an improperly installed seal, oil could also seep out onto the exhaust system and cause a fire.

The documents show that the agency agreed that the problem originated at dealerships and service stations and had nothing to do with the CR-V's design.

Honda then sent letters to its dealers warning them of the potential fire hazard, and the agency stopped its inquiry.

The fires, however, did not stop.

From July 1 to Sept. 9, the date the safety administration reopened its investigation into the CR-V, the agency received reports of 18 more fires.

The new investigation, known as an engineering analysis, is the most exhaustive of the agency's safety inquiries. It is also looking at model year 2004 CR-V's because drivers have begun reporting fires in those models as well.

Mr. Tyson said the investigation could have several outcomes, ranging from no action to a recall.

Honda insists the fires are being caused by negligence on the part of mechanics and says it is not considering a voluntary recall.

"You can't recall the process of changing oil, and that really is the root problem as we see it today," Mr. Boyd said.

What is puzzling Honda engineers and other automobile experts who have been studying the fires is why they are occurring only in 2003 and 2004 models.

"There were no fundamental changes in the vehicle design from 2002 to 2003, yet we have seen this jump in the number of leaks, and in some cases fires," Mr. Boyd said.

Mr. Boyd said the last significant redesign to the CR-V was in 2001, but fires have only recently become a problem.

Some experts have argued that if the fault lies with mechanics, as Honda contends, any vehicle would be prone to the same problems as the CR-V.

"There's something Honda isn't telling the government about this vehicle," said Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety.

Mr. Ditlow said the safety agency should order a recall if Honda refused to do one voluntarily. "This is an open-and-shut case, so the only question for us is, Why haven't they done a safety recall?"

Gregory Barnett, an automotive and heavy-truck consultant to the insurance industry who has written a book about vehicle fires, said the CR-V problem appeared to be a result of Honda's design and laziness on the part of mechanics.

The CR-V's oil filter, like those in models from many other automakers, is near the exhaust system, which increases the likelihood of a fire if the filter leaks, Mr. Barnett said. It is the mechanic's job to keep a leak from happening, he added.

"For somebody to change the oil and not check for a stuck gasket is just stupid," Mr. Barnett said. "I can't believe that Honda has had to send a letter out saying, 'Hey, guys, check for the oil filter gasket - you're setting cars on fire.' "

Some Honda mechanics disagree.

In a letter to Automotive News, Jonathan O'Brian, a Honda shop foreman in Princeton, N.J., said the close proximity of the oil filter to the exhaust system in the CR-V could not be overlooked.

"With oil changes being relegated to less-experienced technicians and the constant pressure to do the job quickly, what is simply a mess on any other car is potentially hazardous on a CR-V," he wrote.

Mr. O'Brian declined to comment further, saying his letter had made his superiors at Honda unhappy.

"I'm better off not saying anything," he said.



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this is exactly why you should avoid going to the dealer as much as possible (especially for simple tasks). i learned how to do oil changes myself ever since i first started driving. i'm still hesitant to get the sulfer smell tsb done on my truck because of my lack of trust for the dealer. i feel that i much rather put up with the occasional smell then to have something go wrong with my truck. in the case that you don't have a garage or a place to work on your car, sometimes small shops are more trustworthy. just bring in the oil and filter you want and they'll do it for you. some of the shops even let you watch. my uncle always brought his cressida to a small shop that he trusted. he nver had a problem and they even gave him discounts for being such a loyal customer.

A lot of vehicles have the oil filter located near the exhaust system. I know that my old Ford Escape had the oil filter just inches above the exaust system. Whenever I changed the oil and filter, I could not avoid spilling oil all over the exhaust pipe.

It sounds like the mechanics need to take responsibility for ensuring that the job is done correctly to avoid this fire hazard on the CR-V.

First: the dealerships hire the cheapest minimum wage people
they can, to do the oil changes.

Second: the dealerships have insurance
to cover employee negligence.

This gentleman should have had his vehicle replaced. If the dealership
gave him any problem he should contact an attorney.

Good advice: when getting any oil change,
inspect your vehicle before you pay for the job. Check the oil level,
a trick is too leave it 2 to 3 quarts low. Check for oil leaks,
a see if your upholstery and floor mats have grease spots on them.
The oil filter will often dribble some oil and they don't like to clean
it up beacuse they don't want to get their hands dirty.

The last time I had my oil change the pan plug was only put on finger tight.
Guess they hoped it would fall out and they would get a engine rebuild.

Cliff s

I have the picture in my mind already

Honda Customer "After you changed the oil in my CR-V it burst into flames on the freeway...."

Honda Dealer "Ah well, they all do that sir....."

Sound familiar ?

You sound like you've been burned by a dealership before.... What makes you think anyone would want to intentionally destroy your engine? If they were negligent, they would have to foot the bill.... it would not be covered under warranty. It would be difficult to cover up something as serious as an engine replacement or rebuild.

I've been on the other side of the situation for many years-- I've worked at an auto tech for Toyota. Yes, I did my share of oil changes as a beginner.... and no, I've never left a customers vehicle 2 or 3 quarts low, intentionally or not.

Note: I have had all of these happen at dealerships(not necessarily Toyota).

Although a Toyota dealership ruined my wifes TurboSupra rear axle by putting
in the wrong lube, cost them $780 (that was what was on the invoice).

The worst was when I had the oil changed in 1994 on my brand new Jeep
Grand Cherokee. The guy drove it around and the oil was just pouring out from
under the car, the oil pan plug was just on by one thread. Then, they had the guts
to try and charge me for the leaked oil.

The 3 quart low time I happend to catch because the oil light came on when I
started the motor, after an oil change. I popped the hood and the dipstick was dry.
The service writer more or less told me I was full of it and at
my insistance pulled the dipstick and no oil.

There are more, but enough for now.

Cliff s

I had a Toyota dealer underfill the oil on a Highlander - their excuse was that the machine they use "sometimes does that" - now I always check the dipstick myself before I drive away - I just wish they checked the dipsticks they employ to do this kind of work.

i bet it goes alot furthur than just oil changes and the dealership, im sure theres some engine problems that honda needs to fix on the crv....

o man one of my best friends drives an 03 crv .. uh oh i gotta call him! lol