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Old 10-06-2019, 12:30 PM #31
223dc4rfgv 223dc4rfgv is offline
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Going to post my experience here since I still don't have enough posts to be able to start a new thread. How many are required, btw?

My 2008 Sport v8 138k suddenly, and I do mean suddenly, decided not to start a week ago. Went out one morning, go to start it, and all I hear is a click and some gentle quiet whirring noise. Not one single turn of the engine. It has always started fast and immediately.

I live in a very remote area with no cheap way to get it to a mechanic, let alone a good one. A tow to a good mechanic would be about $600. When I found out the starter location on this thing, and how the later model v8's are even a lot worse than the earlier v8's, I damn near cried. No way to even tap the starter with a hammer.

I realize that there's a poster above remarking how replacing the starter is no big deal to fix, but he seems entirely alone on the internet in thinking that. Maybe he's simply an awesome mechanic. He's only done it twice, so I assume maybe his experience is on the older v8's without all the stuff still in the way even after you remove the manifold.

I spent many hours since then trying to diagnose the problem, both in Google and in the vehicle. Jumping off another vehicle didn't work. Battery in good condition. Cleaned the terminals although they were in good condition anyway. Starter relay was fine but replaced it anyway. All fuses fine. No OBD codes. All wiring looked good. Neutral Safety Switch fine. Chip keys fine. Security system fine. Since it's an automatic, no way to push start or just jiggle the starter. Since starter is buried, no way to tap it with hammer or prod it with a screwdriver.

Finally I ran across a video of a guy removing a starter relay and shorting the relay socket with a wire, just to be able to test whether a starter would actually turn under power, on vehicles where you can't easily get to the starter and test it properly. Hrm. Of course to do this you need a wiring diagram of the relay, which is printed on the side of most relays I think, but of course, not on this particular Toyota starter relay. Or maybe a smart guy with a multimeter could figure it out, but not me. After much Googling I found a picture of an off-brand replacement relay that had the diagram on the side. I figured out that the socket pits that I needed to short were the ones that corresponded to the two copper pins of the Toyota-branded (Denso) relay (vs the two aluminum pins).

So I cut up an extension cord to make a wire to short with. If I had the sockets wrong, I could have fried a lot of expensive electronics. I held my breath, and did the deed. It sparked and seemed to make a louder click than it had been doing. But no engine turn. Sigh, oh well.

To make sure that I hadn't just fried something, I decided to put the key in the ignition, and make sure all the lights looked the same when I tried to start it. They did. I bumped the key and it started immediately, which surprised the hell out of me.

I guess the shorting wire provided a harder kick to the starter. I now suspect the starter contacts is what's wrong with my vehicle. I also suspect that if I had tried to short it again with the wire, the engine may have turned after that first kick to it. I will now be keeping that shorting wire, and my pair of relay pullers, in the vehicle. I'd suggest that anyone following my lead (it's not my fault if you fry your electronics!) to buy an actual set of relay pullers, as the metal sockets of the relays are too close to the lip, and it's easy to short that if you try to pry the relay out with a screwdriver. It hasn't failed to start since, but I don't trust it any more. That starter/solenoid/whatever needs to be replaced.

I was without this vehicle for a whole week while I tried to fix it. It has snowed here every day, and the vehicle was stuck outside on a slope. I may have to get rid of this vehicle, a vehicle I otherwise love. This mode of failure is not acceptable in genuinely rural areas. Having this happen is not why I own a Toyota 4runner. Maybe I'll get one of the v6 ones. I think putting the starter in such an inaccessible place, where you can't even really diagnose the problem without taking the engine apart, is completely not acceptable.
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Old 10-23-2020, 05:21 PM #32
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4th gen v8 start motor location

Hate to bring up an old thread. But we just went through this on our ‘05 just over 317,000 miles... After replacing the starter and the ignition relay our electrical technician found that a malfunctioning EFI relay was the culprit all along... 1,200 dollars later and a few days with out a vehicle in Sedona, Mike’s Alignment got us up and running like clockwork meeting our travel timeline. No fail in another 300 miles and 4 days now to and around Zion. We’re then headed back to San Diego. I hope this can cut through some of the mystery and headache for others without added unnecessary work. (didn’t need a starter or efi relay). I admit that we rushed them into replacing the starter and starter relay, pushing to maintain our travel and reservation schedule.

Thanks and of course happy travels!4th gen v8 start motor location


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Last edited by Electric_Octopus; 10-23-2020 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 10-24-2020, 03:57 PM #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Octopus View Post
After replacing the starter and the ignition relay our electrical technician found that a malfunctioning EFI relay was the culprit all along...
Great piece of info.

Thanks for taking the time to post.
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Old 10-25-2020, 05:08 AM #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Octopus View Post
Hate to bring up an old thread. But we just went through this on our ‘05 just over 317,000 miles... After replacing the starter and the ignition relay our electrical technician found that a malfunctioning EFI relay was the culprit all along... 1,200 dollars later and a few days with out a vehicle in Sedona, Mike’s Alignment got us up and running like clockwork meeting our travel timeline. No fail in another 300 miles and 4 days now to and around Zion. We’re then headed back to San Diego. I hope this can cut through some of the mystery and headache for others without added unnecessary work. (didn’t need a starter or efi relay). I admit that we rushed them into replacing the starter and starter relay, pushing to maintain our travel and reservation schedule.

Thanks and of course happy travels!4th gen v8 start motor location


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I am kind of confused as to how the technician thought it was a starter to begin with when it ended up being the EFI relay. A defective EFI relay will not stop the starter from engaging. Therefore if the starter was engaging why did he replace it, or am I not reading this right?
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Old 10-25-2020, 09:07 AM #35
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another reason to like the V6?
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Old 04-07-2021, 10:22 AM #36
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Hi everyone, did anyone ever resolve how to remove the starter in the V8's with the secondary air pump system? Seems like removing the coolant crossover is extremely difficult...
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Old 04-07-2021, 12:02 PM #37
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The only negative I see is it is subject to alot of heat.
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Old 04-14-2021, 05:27 PM #38
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Replaced mine due to a failed knock sensor around 280K. It was fine, but so was other knock sensor. Decided while I was under the intake to just replace it all. Used a denso reman starter and OEM knocks. Was around $600 in parts and took a good 4-6hours. I'm at 301K now and kept OEM starter incase I ever need it. Without airpump was still a PITA. Lexus tech had a sawed off ratchet that helped he'd made just for that job on GX's.
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Old 08-08-2021, 10:11 PM #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cice View Post
Hi everyone, did anyone ever resolve how to remove the starter in the V8's with the secondary air pump system? Seems like removing the coolant crossover is extremely difficult...
Did you ever get a reply here? I can't find a good write-up on the forum on how to replace the starter on a V8 with the secondary air pump system... Thanks!
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Old 08-09-2021, 05:44 AM #40
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Did you ever get a reply here? I can't find a good write-up on the forum on how to replace the starter on a V8 with the secondary air pump system... Thanks!
I don’t know of a good write up but I know my mechanic has to remove the coolant bypass. Pretty sure one of the posters above said it had to be done as well. Not sure that you are going to get much more definitive than that.
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Old 08-09-2021, 06:15 AM #41
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This 3 part YT video is on an 06' Tundra for the sai pump but it was quite helpful for me when I swapped out my aluminium intake for the plastic one of later years. Replaced my starter while I was in there and its hard to get to. I had to use a combination of wrenches to it done.
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