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Old 10-11-2010, 03:56 PM #16
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I have my doubts about the WS lasting 100k miles or more. I plan on changing mine at 60k miles. I've only towed once but it was a long trip to UT from Denver over the Rockies. I do a fair amount of off-roading and driving in the mountains, so I think that warrants the fluid change at 60k miles.

Any tips or tricks for changing it yourself? I know it is a "sealed" transmission. Do you still need to change a filter? Drop the pan? Any special gaskets or tools needed?
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Old 10-11-2010, 04:09 PM #17
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Nope

Probably not a bad idea...

There is no real trick to it. Nothing especially 'sealed' about the transmission as far as I could tell.

I used 4 Rhino Ramps and drove up on all 4 at once to get the truck up in the air securely and nice and level.

Grab a socket (cant remember the size) remove the fill plug thats hiding way up in top on the passenger side of the transmission and remove it (in case its stuck you'll want to make sure you can remove it before you drain the fluid all out).

Once you know you can get that out without an issue, get your drain pan under there and remove the drain plug with a socket. Drain the fluid then replace the drain plug.

Pull the fluid level check plug with an allen key (its recessed near the drain plug) and then start pumping in your new fluid through the PITA to get to fill hole up on the side near the top. I cant remember how much it takes, couple of quarts though.

Then you are supposed to start the truck and put it in some special temp check mode by shorting 2 of the OBD2 connector pins, get the transmission hot (but not too hot) to do your final fluid level check.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/attach...4-4-atf-ws.pdf




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Originally Posted by G.I.G. View Post
I have my doubts about the WS lasting 100k miles or more. I plan on changing mine at 60k miles. I've only towed once but it was a long trip to UT from Denver over the Rockies. I do a fair amount of off-roading and driving in the mountains, so I think that warrants the fluid change at 60k miles.

Any tips or tricks for changing it yourself? I know it is a "sealed" transmission. Do you still need to change a filter? Drop the pan? Any special gaskets or tools needed?
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Last edited by Ducman; 10-11-2010 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 10-12-2010, 04:04 PM #18
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Fluid Change

I totally agree with Ducman's summary. If you put 4 quarts in, then you will for sure have more than enough and some will come out when you pull the check plug.

Really the hardest part of this whole mess is pumping the fluid into the tranny. The fill plug is on the top/side of things and with a transfer case nearby, there is just not a whole lot of room. Some sort of electric pump would really simplify this, but I hope to not need to do this much...

Per the dipstick comment, I don't really mind the weird fluid level checking procedure. It's the filling through the dang pump process that is the real pain. The dipstick tube would address this shortcoming though and would be a nice mod IMHO provided it isn't too much $$$.
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Old 10-12-2010, 04:24 PM #19
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You are correct

Yes you are correct... I don't know why I keep suggesting its like 4 quarts. A drain and fill is way less. It's closer to 3 I believe. I should know I've done it several times now I just didn't pay much attention to the amount since the fill level lets you know when you are close.

At any rate... its not hard to do.
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Old 10-15-2010, 03:46 PM #20
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So curious on any updates on this issue? My 2004 V8 SR5 just started having the same issue in the last 3 months. My wife thought 'the roads were really bumpy'. I drove it and noticed it. It's in the dealership right now for this issue. They have changed the differential fluids and greased the drive shafts. Still having the issue. I read this thread and asked them to change the transmission fluids as well. Just wondering if you guys have made any more progress on the issue?
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Old 10-15-2010, 04:04 PM #21
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Not Good

I'm on my 4th drain and fill and I still have the issue.

Again, my 'rumble strip' issue is only present under very light acceleration between 40-50mph when in 'D'. Driving in '4' it never happens.


I've read over 100 threads about this I bet. It seems like this issue is pretty widespread and many FJ, Tundra, and Tacoma owners experience it at under 100,000 miles which to me makes it pretty clear there is a design flaw here somewhere. I've read about a fair amount of Toyota mini vans with it, several newer Chrysler vehicles seem to be hit too.

I've also seen way too many posts from people who either got a new torque converter, transmission or both and then had the issue come back even after the new parts were installed.
I'm extremely discouraged and VERY disappointed. I researched easily a grand total of 40 hours of solid reading before I decided on purchasing a 4Runner, found a really nice 1 owner one and now with not even 80k on my 'new super cool 100k WS transmission' I have this transmission issue.

The truck didn't even have so much as a door ding or scratch anywhere on it and I have maintenance records so I'm pretty confident the thing was never abused (I know its never been abused in my ownership). Interior was mint with no scratches and no tears or rips in any seats. This seems pretty clear to me that it's a transmission defect so I feel robbed that I should have to pay for it.

I love this truck so much, but if I can't get this resolved through fluid changes or something else reasonable $-wise I may just trade it in.
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Last edited by Ducman; 10-15-2010 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 10-15-2010, 05:20 PM #22
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My two Cents

In our case (2005 V6-4x4) that the partial fluid exchange has eliminated the issue for us. Granted, I have not pushed my luck and really tried to reproduce the issue by holding it for extended periods of time in the 38-50 mph range.

In our normal routes around town at normal driving speeds, IT IS ALL GONE. Will it come back, perhaps. If it does, will I simply do another ~$25 drain and refill, you betcha. I do think something is probably wrong (not just fluid) but if we can limp our trannys along by swapping fluid out, that seems to be the financially prudent route to take.

What bothers me the most is the ultra light weight of the fluid in this transmission. I know that this is kind of the direction things are heading with higher fuel mileage and lower noise/weight being big design considerations. I am really kind of afraid that what ever is going on here might be taking a toll on the fluid, perhaps causing it to loose efficacy WAY earlier than "lifetime." With this in mind, a relatively inexpensive fluid change (full flush or drain and refill) seem like no brainers, maybe as early as 30-45K. With the advent of Wal Mart "WS Compatable except Hybrids" fluid, this gets even easier.

I must admit, this experience has kind of soured me on Toyota a little bit. In particular the caviler attitude regarding the changing of transmission fluid. "The fluid is special and lasts the life of the transmission." "You can't change it at home without a Toyota specific scanner tool." Statements like these kind of push my buttons. Time will tell if I continue to feel this way, but I may be heading back to the blue oval for the next car purchase. Have you seen these Ecoboost things...
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Old 10-15-2010, 07:28 PM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman View Post
I'm on my 4th drain and fill and I still have the issue.

Again, my 'rumble strip' issue is only present under very light acceleration between 40-50mph when in 'D'. Driving in '4' it never happens.


I've read over 100 threads about this I bet. It seems like this issue is pretty widespread and many FJ, Tundra, and Tacoma owners experience it at under 100,000 miles which to me makes it pretty clear there is a design flaw here somewhere. I've read about a fair amount of Toyota mini vans with it, several newer Chrysler vehicles seem to be hit too.

I've also seen way too many posts from people who either got a new torque converter, transmission or both and then had the issue come back even after the new parts were installed.
I'm extremely discouraged and VERY disappointed. I researched easily a grand total of 40 hours of solid reading before I decided on purchasing a 4Runner, found a really nice 1 owner one and now with not even 80k on my 'new super cool 100k WS transmission' I have this transmission issue.

The truck didn't even have so much as a door ding or scratch anywhere on it and I have maintenance records so I'm pretty confident the thing was never abused (I know its never been abused in my ownership). Interior was mint with no scratches and no tears or rips in any seats. This seems pretty clear to me that it's a transmission defect so I feel robbed that I should have to pay for it.

I love this truck so much, but if I can't get this resolved through fluid changes or something else reasonable $-wise I may just trade it in.
Its not a good feeling at all. Our truck has 103k and the powertrain warranty expired at 100k! Sucks to be me. We bought ours brand new with 4km's on it and we've taken it to the dealers for ALL work. Everything was on time and done if the dealer suggested it.

Ours does the same issue. Low speed, always in D so basically 5th gear. If it upshifts then the problem is gone so 4th has no issues. The other thing i noticed was that it's always between 1000 - 1500rpm in D on a slight load so slight uphill or bumpy road etc. It just started happening like i said 3 months ago. We've had ours since June 2004 and all has been great until now.

This is my wifes truck so the offroading she's done is a few curbs. It's 99.5% sealed road vehicle. Just called the dealer and they are still looking at it.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:50 PM #24
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So picked up the truck. As per the service techs, it's the transmission fluid. It's causing the torque convertor to shudder which is what we are feeling. They switched out the fluids. So far, i've had all three diffs flushed and the transmission fluid flushed. Wife drove it back. 10km's from dealer and wham, back to shuddering. Called the dealer back and the tech says that we need to drive it a bit to let the fluids pump through the systems and coat the gears etc. OK, we'll give it a try but not holding our breath.

In a nutshell, problem not solved.
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Old 10-18-2010, 06:20 PM #25
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Our transmission was spec'd with TypeIV originally. If I were you guys I'd figure I had little to lose and give some type IV a try. The slightly heavier viscosity will probably smooth it out. Just a thought. I once read a Toyota document on WS and it said if TypeIV was used the driver MAY noticed delayed/sluggish transmission performance in very cold conditions but that's it. There was no "your transmission will blow up and you will likely die in the incident" warning.


Here's some similar tales and worth a read as you ponder trying TypeIV. (NOTE: TypeIV to WS is very much like DexronIII to DexronVI.)

Rethinking Dex VI - Bob Is The Oil Guy

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Old 10-19-2010, 01:38 AM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riteshcarla View Post
So picked up the truck. As per the service techs, it's the transmission fluid. It's causing the torque convertor to shudder which is what we are feeling. They switched out the fluids. So far, i've had all three diffs flushed and the transmission fluid flushed. Wife drove it back. 10km's from dealer and wham, back to shuddering. Called the dealer back and the tech says that we need to drive it a bit to let the fluids pump through the systems and coat the gears etc. OK, we'll give it a try but not holding our breath.

In a nutshell, problem not solved.
Hi guys

I recently bought bought an 05 with only 60k and about the 65k mark it started to do the same vibration. I'll be going to my dealer and mechanic on Thursday, if I get any good info I'll let you guys know. Hopefully between us we can get this figured out

On a side note has anyone had a complete failure from this that you guys know about. Or does it just do that forever. If there was a failure that would help us in trying to determine the problem.
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Old 10-19-2010, 08:27 AM #27
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Are you guys 100% its the trans and not some harmonic vibration due to the engine? The V8 has no EGR system and has been known to vibrate harmonically in certain RPM ranges.

Furthermore, I know when it starts getting cold, my rear diff starts whining and produces a similar harmonic vibration that is quite audible at certain speeds.

I doubt its a transmission issue, perhaps its a design flaw in the mounting or lack of vibration dampers on the frame that produces this. the 100's frame is covered in vibration dampers and has almost identical drive trains. (engine and trans) wise.
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Old 10-19-2010, 02:37 PM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eskimochaos View Post
Are you guys 100% its the trans and not some harmonic vibration due to the engine? The V8 has no EGR system and has been known to vibrate harmonically in certain RPM ranges.

Furthermore, I know when it starts getting cold, my rear diff starts whining and produces a similar harmonic vibration that is quite audible at certain speeds.

I doubt its a transmission issue, perhaps its a design flaw in the mounting or lack of vibration dampers on the frame that produces this. the 100's frame is covered in vibration dampers and has almost identical drive trains. (engine and trans) wise.
You might be right about a engine balance issue. Going to start looking into this and i hope it's just something simple or not a problem. I haven't read any transmission or engine failures from this so you might be right. The only odd thing that we need to look into is why some of us have it and some don't V6 or V8 engine.
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Old 10-21-2010, 01:02 AM #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eskimochaos View Post
Are you guys 100% its the trans and not some harmonic vibration due to the engine? The V8 has no EGR system and has been known to vibrate harmonically in certain RPM ranges.

Furthermore, I know when it starts getting cold, my rear diff starts whining and produces a similar harmonic vibration that is quite audible at certain speeds.

I doubt its a transmission issue, perhaps its a design flaw in the mounting or lack of vibration dampers on the frame that produces this. the 100's frame is covered in vibration dampers and has almost identical drive trains. (engine and trans) wise.
I would think it but why would it happen 6years after. Mine started happening about 2 months ago. If it was an engine vibration, i figured it would have happened sooner? I do have a vibration on the front driveline which apparently is somewhat normal around 120km/h. I'm not sure where to go right now. My dealer had mentioned that if it comes back to call them back. Well, it hasn't gone away so i'll be calling them back, again.

Let me know if anyone else makes any progress.
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Old 10-25-2010, 12:44 PM #30
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Vibration

I don't buy the engine vibration thing for a couple of reasons. First, the engine passes through this RPM range in all the other gears (and at idle) without issue. Second, for there to be trouble with the V8s and the V6s (two different motors) both at the same points (3-4 and 4-5 transmission shifts) seems very unlikely. Third, on the Tacomas (same power train) and the Tundras (different power train) the factory diagnosed the rumble strip issue as a transmission mount problem IIRC. This did not fix anyone's problems.

For a little update, our 2005 4x4 V6 is still "fixed" by doing the drain and refill with Walmart Type VI. CJ may be on to something with the "more viscous fluid theory." Certainly, if the transmission was originally designed for the Land Cruiser line when only Type IV existed, it would lead one to believe that the risk of mixing in a few quarts of Type IV would not grenade the transmission.
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