There's an article on Edmunds.com by this title that is very helpful, but here are some tidbits I have to offer. I recently left the car sales business to pursue another opportunity. If you have any questions, post them here and I'll try to answer them.

Advertising:
Don't expect to get the advertised deals anywhere. These are usually based on a certain amount of money down, trade figured in, perfect credit, and that you are eligible for all the rebates. In other words, it's the perfect scenario. It won't happen.

Rarely if ever will a dealership actually have a "sale." The bottom line they will accept for a vehicle will not change. They advertise "sales" to get customers in. Often times, they will mark used vehicles up prior to the sale so that they can show you perceived savings. The exception is when the dealership is trying to meet criteria for bonuses, then you can find some deals.

Don't let a salesman convince you he cares. He doesn't! He will continue to contact you and make an attempt to gain your loyalty and get you to make recommendations. If he was good, make recommendations and give him the first chance to sell you on your next purchase; however, don't feel any sense of loyalty to him or the dealership - this is exactly what they want. Repeat customers are the ones who end up paying the most because they have more of a tendency to trust the salesman and the dealership.

On the lot:
First of all, do not get emotionally attached to any vehicle. This is exactly what the salesman wants to create a sense of urgency for you to buy. Remember, there are ALOT of these vehicles around, this is not the only one and there will be others! Emotions will cloud your judgement and make you act on impulse. You will end up with a vehicle you are unhappy with and/or pay too much.

Don't get talked into options you don't need. Compile a list of options you want before shopping and don't let a salesman convince you that you need all the bells and whistles.

Negotiating trade:
Dealerships almost always hold back at least 10% of what they are willing to pay when they desk their first offer. Never take the first offer! Make sure you know your vehicles's Blue Book and Edmunds values. Don't let them sell you on the NADA value which is more dealer friendly.

Don't let them talk you into believing your trade is worth less. They'll try to tell you that it has scratches, or worn seats, too many miles, etc. But, do some research, see what your vehicle is worth and don't accept less.

The value they show you for your trade is almost always inflated. Figure up all the numbers in the deal and you will see this. In essence, they have lied to you about the amount they are giving you. Call them out on this and use it to your advantage.

The deal:
Most dealerships use the "trade plus" system to show customers the numbers on a deal. This is extremely misleading!
For example, the salesman will return with a sheet of paper that lists the MSRP, then subtract all rebates, discounts, etc. At the bottom, it will say that they are willing to take your trade + X amount for their vehicle TODAY.

The first offer they bring you, they're asking MSRP. They are willing to take substantially less.

Rebates will save you money, but require you to finance through the manufacturer and they'll get they're money back there. Shop other financial institutions and you may find an interest rate that will save you more money than the initial rebates.

In "trade plus" the payoff amount for your trade and taxes and tags are not included. Add this to the amount that you'll have to pay.

DO NOT focus on the amount they list. They use "trade plus" to show you a small number. Figure up all the costs including payoff and taxes and tags to find the real number.

Never let a salesman know how much you want to spend or how much you can afford to spend. Guess how much you'll be paying if you do?

Do not get anxious.

Take control of the situation. You make the final decision on whether or not to purchase. They are at your mercy. Do business on your terms, not theirs. If you're not getting the deal you want, get up and threaten to walk out; they'll panic. If you still don't get the deal you want, walk out! There are other vehicles out there and they'll often contact you with a better deal and you can start the negotiation process again from there.


I'll think of more things and add them.

Thanks for the insights...very helpful for those of us looking right now to buy. Here is a question or two that might help many of us do some figuring: is there a kind of "magic number" that your dealership was willing to take--e.g. invoice, invoice plus X, something along the line of Edmund's "What others are paying" or something else? Any way to figure it generally on a vehicle, no matter what the vehicle?
Any time of the year that is better? Time when sales quotas need to be met or other things come into play that make a dealer more willing to deal? Thanks!

It really depends on the current demand for a particular vehicle when it comes to how much a dealership is willing to take. For some vehicles, it can be as low as invoice + $500. I'm glad you mentioned invoice. Never be afraid to ask to see the invoice. In fact, demand to see it. They'll try to talk you out of it and show you NADA values, etc. But, if you demand to see it and THREATEN TO WALK OUT, they'll show it to you if they really want to make the sale.

As far as the time of the year to buy, December - February is generally the slowest time of the year for dealerships and this is the time they'll give you good deals on vehicles that are generally in high demand. People are generally cash poor from taxes and Christmas shopping, days are shorter, and the weather plain sucks. It used to be that late summer was a great time to shop for last years' models because that was when the latest model came out. This isn't the case anymore because manufacturers usually phase the new model in throughout the course of the year. For example, when the new model Mustangs came out, the V6 model was available first, then the GT became availabe, now the convertible will come out in the next month or so; the Cobra probably won't be available until the next model year. So, there isn't the old massive influx of new year models like their used to be.

Summer can be a good time to buy because that is the time of year manufacturers put out alot of incentive bonuses. This is when you can really find some great deals. For example, last year for the month of June, Ford put out a bonus that if a dealership sold 100 F-150's that they would give the dealership $2500 per every F-150 sold. What we did was sell F-150's like crazy even if we sold substantially under invoice, because we knew we could hit the 100 mark and we'd get the money at the end of the month.

After the purchase, use and abuse the dealership services. Threaten to give them a bad manufacturer's survey. They rely on good surveys because this directly ties into what percentage of their bonuses they receive. Perfect surveys = 100% of bonus. Good surveys = 50% - 75% of bonus. Lesser surveys can = 0% bonus.

In the end, use your common sense. If the deal appears to be too good to be true, more than likely it is; unless the dealership is trying to hit incentives. Demand to see the invoice. Know what you're getting for your trade. IF you can afford to, buy the new vehicle without trading and sale your trade yourself. You'll get alot more money for it. Dealerships rip people off on trades like you won't believe. If they're showing you $2000 or less for your trade, they're probably actually giving you $0. In general, figure that they're actually giving you 20% less for your trade than they're showing you on paper and remember that they're holding back at least 10% on that first offer for your trade.

Keep the questions coming! I've seen way too many people ripped off due to plain ignorance of the car business, just don't let it happen to you! A good salesman can make a rip off deal sound decent and a decent deal sound like the best deal of all time. Furthermore, even if the salesman is a decent guy and doesn't want to see his customers taken advantage of and ripped off (me), the sales managers will see to it that they get every penny they can out of every customer they sell.

Good luck!

Just remember that YOU are the one in control and use this to your advantage!

The car business is rife with urban legends.

You will never know what a dealer pays for any vehicle,
this is a business secret. The dealership takes the price he
paid for the unit and adds the required markup, this is his lowest
selling price.
The salesman is paid on commission that includes part of the profit
on the deal(you will never know this figure also). The rest is a dog
and pony show to get the maximum profit out of the deal.

Any smart salesman knows that he can't spend his time dickering
with someone for the last penny in a deal, he is better off turning down
the customer and moving on to somebody that has the potential for more
commission, after all this is his paycheck.

Just remember that they didn't get that fancy showroom and huge dealership
by giving away vehicles, nor is that fleet of salesman there for their health.

Cliff s

I used this website when purchasing. It has some of the tips you mentioned: http://www.carbuyingtips.com/

I think it

I have to disagree with the previous poster. I DID act this same way when I bought my house. You have to question essentially every line when you are at closing. They try to tack stupid shit on there that is unnecessary or you've already paid for. Unless you question it, they won't remove it so you're being nickle and dimed. Buying a house is already a very expensive endeavor and saving a couple hundred bucks is no laughing matter. I think it is totally SIMILAR to buying a vehicle

If I save a couple hundred buck or even a thousand dollars haggling with the dealer, then its well worth it to me. Now I know the dealer needs to make some money as well, so I take that into consideration. I'm not going to be an ass when trying to deal, but I do expect to pay a reasonable amount and that reasonable amount is no where near close to MSRP. Hell I was insulted when the sales manager offered me 1000 off MSRP when the other dealership already offered me a much better deal without even asking for it. I should have gone with them, but they were more out of the way from my house.

another thing they do is discourage you from ordering and sell what is on the lot, and they hate dealer trades.

Also suggest you check out: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showth...ht=confessions

yea i agree on the lender fees and all the hidden charges part, but i'm saying when you buy a new home you dont go in there and say i want to see your invoice for the house. or anywhere else like the electronics store.


i bought my 4runner for invoice minus all rebates, the truck stickered at 38410 and bought it for 32330.


all i did is stuck to my guns and said sale it to me at invoice - all rebates. they finally said ok and then wrote a check. i did it this way because i didnt like the dealership, it was just the closest to my house and they had to dealertrade it for me.

if i liked the dealership and the salesman i would of probably paid more for the truck. but i didnt really care to make a new friend that day.

"The car business is rife with urban legends.

You will never know what a dealer pays for any vehicle,
this is a business secret."
-------------------------------------------
This simply isn't true. If you demand to see the invoice and threaten to walk out, they'll show you the invoice if they really want to make the sell and the invoice price at an legit dealership WILL BE correct. Alot of people think they aren't correct because they simply can't believe that the dealership is only profitting $500 or so on a $35k vehicle, but that price is correct. Dealerships don't make much money on new car sales. They live off of used car sales (due to ripping people off on trades), ridiculous service and parts charges, and manucturer bonuses. Plus the dealership gets a certain amount of money from the manufacturer every quarter to offset operation costs. New car sales makes up a shockingly small percentage of dealership profit.

In fact, you don't even have to get the invoice directly from the dealership or you can double check it if you don't believe it. Just get all of the options and go to www.kbb.com (Kelly Blue Book) and they will give you the invoice price and I mean in alot of cases it will be correct to the penny. It is always very close. I don't know how they get all that info, but they have it. It's a very valuable resource when car shopping.

I think you are comparing apples and oranges here. To tell you the truth, I'm not there to make friends when purchasing a house or a car but I don't want to swindle someone at the same time. If we can reach a price that is fair for both parties and we part amicably then great.

Everyone knows that things are marked up and we pay more than actual costs, but with cars its one of the few things that price is negotiable. Also, the dealer still controls if they want to sell it to you for a certain price. If the dealer doesn't want to sell you a vehicle for $5.00 then thats up to them to say "screw you."

Many of the luxury brands like Mercedes or BMW won't even "haggle" on the price. What you see on the sticker is what they want, no ifs and/or buts....

"Count your pennies... because pretty soon those pennies will turn into dollars." - Donald Trump

If saving a couple hundred dollars isn't worth it to some people, you won't convice them otherwise. Let them pay more. I, on the other hand, would like to do my reseach, figure out a price that I'm willing to pay for a particular vehicle with specific options, and bring it to the dealer to see if he can match it. Easy as that.

Plus, in my experience, one of the best things a potential buyer can have on his side is TIME. I have bought two cars (including my 4runner) when I didn't "need" one... I mean, my current car didn't just die, so I wasn't out of a ride at that time. I could've driven it another 6 or 12 months. So knowing that, I didn't feel pressured to buy by any salesman. If he met my price, I bought. If he didn't, I found someone else that would.

There is a Toyota Dealer in Asheville, NC who advertises lowest price on their stickers. It really saves both parties the hassle of haggle. If you don't want to pay as much as they want, them you don't get the car, its as simple as that. They of course can only do it this way by being a very large, well know dealership. My dad drove 3 hours just to buy a camry there. He liked how they did their pricing.

What dealership is that? Bryan Easler maybe? I'm living on the eastern shore of MD right now (ugh), but SUV prices here are ridiculous and I'll probably be heading back home to Morganton, NC to snag a 4R.