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Old 10-15-2013, 05:09 PM #16
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I do not think it is your tires, i have the same tires on my 99' 4runner and it gets better mileage than it ever has even with 245,000 miles on it.
Also,
how cold is it where you are located? I notice a 3mpg (or more) change between 20+ deg C and 10 and under deg C.
I've noticed no difference with non-ethanol gas.

Last edited by Greg_Canada; 10-16-2013 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:26 PM #17
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An issue I had w/my old Tacoma was the e-brake. Do you use it a lot? After moving to an area that treated the road during the winter, the mechanism in the rear wheel started to seize in the locked position. It got so bad that I could smell the brake pads starting to burn and felt the heat across the rear axle after a 45 mile trip in -10* weather. A quick test would be to get the wheels off the ground and give them a spin to see it they spin freely.

Also, I don't recall seeing it listed but you've replaced the air filter correct?
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:46 AM #18
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Putting it in 4th rather than 'D'?
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:44 AM #19
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I don't think this is the case. The OP indicated he drives with the eco light on 95% of the time. The eco light will not be illuminated if the shifter is in "select mode".
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:38 AM #20
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Seems like the truck is either running rich for some reason or there is an increased drag somewhere. Any black smoke in the exhaust if you accelerate hard in park and let off the gas? I would jack each wheel and spin the tire by hand to see how hard it is to turn - or how many rotations do you get with the same amount of rotation force. Also see if approx same force is needed to turn each wheel. Failing all that and previous suggestions all I can think of is to put it on the machine and see what your numbers really are for fuel burn and exhaust gas values; plus electrical - perhaps you have a misfire and just can't feel it. I'm surprised the dealer won't help. Any other dealers near by?
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:37 PM #21
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Soooo.... Toyota will now look at this after I have filled up the runner 5 times and keep the receipts and a record of the milage.

I did get some inside info from a tech and will share this with the board after I get things rolling and find out if it works.

Thanks to the board for all the help.

And just to clear some questions...

-no roof top box
-almost never use ebrake unless on hill.
-Tire pressure 32psi all around
-Did take it up to speed and did a reset.. got excited for about 10 miles with a great readout... then it slowly changed back to close to where I started. (15MPG in this case.)
-did not do the jack/ wheel test... YET...
-No smoke, no other issues... but today noticed a vibration in the front at speed. I think the balance of the new tires may have gone out for the front tires.... but the vibration was intermittent while at a constant speed of 70mph... so it could be a hesitation or a misfire in one cylinder.
-Toyota insists that if it was an O2 sensor, plugs, cat converter, ecu, transmission or anything of that nature there would be a warning light on the dash. No light. They say No light... no service inspection under warranty.
-I do know that they can hook the truck up to the "Techstream" which has a fuel consumption tool that is accurate to +-5% margin of error. It will show average, max and current. This is what I have demanded... and the 5 fill up is the compromise in the situation. Once I see that this works and helps me... I will post the Toyota Tech Tip # for others that may be in the same situation.

For whatever reason I do believe that there is an issue with the A/F mixture and that Toyota has a real PR problem with fuel efficiency. The otherwise friendly staff in service literally run away when you bring up a possible problem with MPG. Then you have to get a lecture from the service manager on how everybody drives differently... etc... Nobody wants to take ownership of this issue.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:54 PM #22
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For best results and greater accuracy on your 5 fill ups; I recommend that you stop when the nozzle automatically kicks off for all tanks and don't add more fuel even if rounding to the nearest dollar or gal. If it were me I would even try and fill up at the same station, using the same nozzle (thus reducing more variables) every time too. GL.
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:03 AM #23
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lots of good ideas here... i'll just add that you might consider getting a ScanGauge for pulling codes, monitoring performance, and tracking fuel consumption. Advance Auto runs coupons and you can get one delivered for ~$50 off retail. good luck.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:42 AM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BibTireguy View Post
For whatever reason I do believe that there is an issue with the A/F mixture and that Toyota has a real PR problem with fuel efficiency. The otherwise friendly staff in service literally run away when you bring up a possible problem with MPG. Then you have to get a lecture from the service manager on how everybody drives differently... etc... Nobody wants to take ownership of this issue.
There are so many variables to fuel economy that they simply can't investigate everyone that complains; they have to do some filtering to ensure that only legitimate cases get back to the service bay. I recall when the 5th gens came out, there were a few people complaining about their winter mileage not meeting the highway rating... turns out, they were letting the car idle for ~10 minutes to get the cabin up to temp before moving an inch. Yes, they were driving highway conditions after warming up, but that idling put them in a huge hole from the onset. Now, I'm not saying you are doing that, but there are definitely people out there that don't connect those cause and effect dots and the dealers do have the deal with those people as well.

Additionally, selling high mileage vehicles like the Prius means that you have a large number of customers that buy a vehicle for the fuel economy and when that magic 50mpg isn't met on the display, they freak out and head to the dealer. For example, say your driving conditions put you 10% below the combined rating. On a 4Runner, that turns out to be 17.1mpg instead of 19mpg. On a Prius, that is 45mpg instead of 50mpg. Despite being the same percentage off, numerically, it looks like the Prius is missing the target far more than the 4Runner is. I see people on the Prius boards annoyed that their Prius v is getting 42mpg instead of the 44mpg city rating even though that difference amounts to ~15 gallons of gas over a whole year. Nevermind the fact that the EPA test is very imperfect... (especially for hybrid city ratings... physics dictates that stop and go driving is very inefficient... it is just slightly less efficient in a hybrid).
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Old 10-27-2013, 11:28 PM #25
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Thumbs up Update

Someone did a very nice thing for me and got me out of this problem and into a 2014 limited 4runner 7 passenger 4x4 with nav in pearl blizzard. I LOVE the handling of the new truck! Day and night.... Much less dive and flatter in the corners.

Permanent 4wd in a heavier vehicle and 5mpg better with no break in yet. Something terribly wrong with the 2013 sr5. Once I warm up to a vehicle in a color that I won't even buy a fridge in I will be totally happy. I did love the grey even though mine had very brittle paint.

Cost? $2000 plus the loss of my ecp. But one year newer truck, ltd vs. sr5, and the savings on gas will more than pay for the difference in a couple of years. It is like free 20 inch wheels, xreas, and jbl for free.... Not to mention the nicer interior and lights.
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:26 AM #26
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I am seriously considering a T4R. I was looking at trading in my current vehicle for a used 2011 or 2012 but if ther is that much of a difference between the to, I would definitely consider a 2014.
If I could ask a couple of questions.
1) how much nicer is the interior (i believe the limited interior on the 2013's etc was nicer than an sr5)
2) you mentioned the ride is nicer....can you elaborate a little
3) what kind of mileage are you seeing now? The reason is a commute @60 miles a day.

Thank you and congrats!! I have been looking at vehicles for so long, but i keep coming back to the 4 runner!
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Old 10-29-2013, 02:36 PM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BibTireguy View Post
Someone did a very nice thing for me and got me out of this problem and into a 2014 limited 4runner 7 passenger 4x4 with nav in pearl blizzard. I LOVE the handling of the new truck! Day and night.... Much less dive and flatter in the corners.

Permanent 4wd in a heavier vehicle and 5mpg better with no break in yet. Something terribly wrong with the 2013 sr5. Once I warm up to a vehicle in a color that I won't even buy a fridge in I will be totally happy. I did love the grey even though mine had very brittle paint.

Cost? $2000 plus the loss of my ecp. But one year newer truck, ltd vs. sr5, and the savings on gas will more than pay for the difference in a couple of years. It is like free 20 inch wheels, xreas, and jbl for free.... Not to mention the nicer interior and lights.
I wouldn't be jumping up and down just yet. Didn't you say the SR5 was also getting good mileage when you first got it? I guess now you can see if it's something you do, the gas you use or if it was the SR5. That 14 mpg was terrible. I got the same mileage in mine at 65 mph pulling a haulmark trailer - normal mileage is 23-25 mpg.
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:16 PM #28
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Mr Al Bundy, I am jumping up and down for good reason. The dealer really worked hard to get me out of this situation. (I note that the truck that I traded in in on his lot for only $1000 over what I was given for trade in... when you figure in that I got the new truck for a hair over invoice and that anyone is going to want a discount on the used truck the dealer will be lucky to break even in this deal.... not to mention the cost of certifying it for the CPO Toyota warranty.)

The thread is about gas milage though and here are a few observations regarding that:

-The new truck continues to get better fuel efficiency.
-On both trucks I only use tier 2 gasoline (Texaco and Chevron are the same gas but in our area Texaco is always about $.10-15 cheaper.)
-I broke in both engines with no full throttle acceleration and varying the speed
-Both trucks were delivered with under 10 miles on them so I was not a victim of test drive jockeys
-What makes me feel that there was something wrong other than milage is the fact that the new truck cruises more effortlessly and does not bog down big time on hills.

In regards to the other questions:

- even with a cruising speed of 75 mph I am seeing 20 mpg on the flats (Like the areas around Chicago)
-The Xreas suspension is a big step in the right direction. I have not gone off road but have hit speed humps 5 feet apart at 30 mph... it is firmer than the SR5 but still sucks up the big hits. Much less nose dive under braking and cornering feels like Toyota gave an SR5 to BMW M department for a day to work out the kinks. I am a retired indycar driver and know how to make cars handle... and I am sure that with a few hours at an alignment shop I could improve this truck for on road use.. but with the longer suspension travel I am far from an expert on set up on a 4runner but with my background I can offer a professional opinion about the handling.
-Flatter through the corners so it allows the tires to set quicker in a corner.
-Once set it will follow a line without falling over the outside sidewall of the tires.
-Understeer is acceptable, (For safety all passenger vehicles are set up with understeer.) You can lift off the throttle mid corner and tighten up the line.. in a SR5 you can do this as well but the transition is less predictable and passengers will feel like the truck is going to flip. In the Limited they feel like you are driving swiftly.. in the sr5 they feel that you are being reckless. (This is all based on cloverleaf on ramps and off ramps.)
-You can even trail brake a limited in a corner to tighten up the line... in the SR5 at the limit this tends to cause a push at the front end.
-For the general consumer the limited has more headroom for driver error, it will stop faster because it takes less time for the suspension to firm up on the front end, (less nose dive) and because it is not diving as much... the suspension angles are more consistant under braking making the ability to steer under braking more predictable... also straighter stops.
-This is comparing a YOKO geolander vs Mich MS2. If the MS2 came in the 20X7 inch wheel size I would predict that the handleing gap would even be larger.

The interior.. just go to a toyota dealer. This is subjective. I like the seats and the white stitching on the black leather. I do have to admit that the new navigation system is either a step back or I need to spend a few hours learning all the features. (There must be a mute button that I have missed... I truly hope!) It still is more intuitive than the Idrive in my other car but right now it is rather annoying.

Overall I am a happy camper, and I feel that I just got a monday morning truck in my old SR5. I have written a lot about how the LTD is better than the SR5... the SR5 is still a great truck... better in my opinion if you were driving logging roads all day long... but for the street the Limited is superior. The right tool for the job... that is why hammers come in so many sizes.
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:28 AM #29
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Thank you, sir!
I am gonna try and get out this week to check one out!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BibTireguy View Post
Mr Al Bundy, I am jumping up and down for good reason. The dealer really worked hard to get me out of this situation. (I note that the truck that I traded in in on his lot for only $1000 over what I was given for trade in... when you figure in that I got the new truck for a hair over invoice and that anyone is going to want a discount on the used truck the dealer will be lucky to break even in this deal.... not to mention the cost of certifying it for the CPO Toyota warranty.)

The thread is about gas milage though and here are a few observations regarding that:

-The new truck continues to get better fuel efficiency.
-On both trucks I only use tier 2 gasoline (Texaco and Chevron are the same gas but in our area Texaco is always about $.10-15 cheaper.)
-I broke in both engines with no full throttle acceleration and varying the speed
-Both trucks were delivered with under 10 miles on them so I was not a victim of test drive jockeys
-What makes me feel that there was something wrong other than milage is the fact that the new truck cruises more effortlessly and does not bog down big time on hills.

In regards to the other questions:

- even with a cruising speed of 75 mph I am seeing 20 mpg on the flats (Like the areas around Chicago)
-The Xreas suspension is a big step in the right direction. I have not gone off road but have hit speed humps 5 feet apart at 30 mph... it is firmer than the SR5 but still sucks up the big hits. Much less nose dive under braking and cornering feels like Toyota gave an SR5 to BMW M department for a day to work out the kinks. I am a retired indycar driver and know how to make cars handle... and I am sure that with a few hours at an alignment shop I could improve this truck for on road use.. but with the longer suspension travel I am far from an expert on set up on a 4runner but with my background I can offer a professional opinion about the handling.
-Flatter through the corners so it allows the tires to set quicker in a corner.
-Once set it will follow a line without falling over the outside sidewall of the tires.
-Understeer is acceptable, (For safety all passenger vehicles are set up with understeer.) You can lift off the throttle mid corner and tighten up the line.. in a SR5 you can do this as well but the transition is less predictable and passengers will feel like the truck is going to flip. In the Limited they feel like you are driving swiftly.. in the sr5 they feel that you are being reckless. (This is all based on cloverleaf on ramps and off ramps.)
-You can even trail brake a limited in a corner to tighten up the line... in the SR5 at the limit this tends to cause a push at the front end.
-For the general consumer the limited has more headroom for driver error, it will stop faster because it takes less time for the suspension to firm up on the front end, (less nose dive) and because it is not diving as much... the suspension angles are more consistant under braking making the ability to steer under braking more predictable... also straighter stops.
-This is comparing a YOKO geolander vs Mich MS2. If the MS2 came in the 20X7 inch wheel size I would predict that the handleing gap would even be larger.

The interior.. just go to a toyota dealer. This is subjective. I like the seats and the white stitching on the black leather. I do have to admit that the new navigation system is either a step back or I need to spend a few hours learning all the features. (There must be a mute button that I have missed... I truly hope!) It still is more intuitive than the Idrive in my other car but right now it is rather annoying.

Overall I am a happy camper, and I feel that I just got a monday morning truck in my old SR5. I have written a lot about how the LTD is better than the SR5... the SR5 is still a great truck... better in my opinion if you were driving logging roads all day long... but for the street the Limited is superior. The right tool for the job... that is why hammers come in so many sizes.
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Old 11-30-2016, 05:42 PM #30
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I'm not sure if this thread will be active a couple years later, but I just traded my 04 Highlander for a 13 SR5 4Runner Premium (3rd row was the main consideration, but other extras were nice). When I bought it, the dash said 18.5 avg mpg, which was right in line with 18-19 mpg I was expecting (I knew I wouldn't be seeing the 20-22 mpg I had averaged in the Highlander, but I traded up to a 4Runner for obvious reasons). I've had it for 2 weeks and filled up before and after Thanksgiving highway travel. My mpg calculation for an almost exclusively highway trip was around 16.5. I reset the dash, and it's currently reading 15.5 avg mpg with a combination of local city and highway commuting. These low mpg numbers have me worried. I'm still within the limited warranty window; is there anything I should have checked out? Oil was changed with 0W-20 at the dealer. It's running Bridgestones, although I'm not sure what model or pressure. I'll be checking that out. Does winter gas typically become an issue in November (I'm in Missouri)?

My Highlander and Corolla have always been near sticker numbers within a couple mpg, and discrepancies have been easy to identify based on a low tire, oil change, driving conditions. It seems like something more significant should be making the 3 mpg difference than tire pressure, or at least I'm concerned that it could be an engine or transmission issue. I'd be comfortable with getting 15 city / 20 hwy, but it's looking more like 13/16. This seems like a drastic difference that's leading to a little buyer's remorse on a vehicle I've been looking forward to loving!
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