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Old 11-07-2013, 05:46 PM #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4r2014 View Post
OTD is laughable way to purchase. Dealer loves buyers like that almost as much a payment buyers.

Vehicle purchase, fees and financing should always be negotiated independently.

In have rarely seen nutty junk fees in SoCal after negotiating a purchase of a dozen vehicles of all types of brands. However I know parts of the country are notorious for fees, especially the southeast.
Please explain your theory.
Invoice is laughable, because when you negotiate OTD, I bet they will remove/lower some fees

Better yet, how much did you pay OTD and what option did you get?
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Old 11-07-2013, 05:50 PM #32
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OTD prices

So called "invoice price" is not what the dealer paid for the car. They will never show you that price. Read the entire invoice and you will see a bunch of dollars added on that do not relate directly to the price of the vehicle. Just do your research and tell them what you are willing to pay and if they say no or start to toss out other numbers Walk out the door. You have to be reasonable on your offer also. I never haggle. Just make an offer and if they do not go for it I walk. Have owned 25 new vehicles and never paid more than I originally planned on spending. Have walked on a couple of purchases. Put your self in charge, You are the one buying. Do not let them start talking to you about other prices. When that happens you are letting them take control of the deal. It's your money... There are other dealers, even out of state. There are some vehicles that will not sell below the asking price, because of demand, etc. Be willing to ante up if you cannot live without that particular model. I walked on a car in Sept. I was thinking of moving up to a 2014 with my present dealer. There were a couple of options on the vehicle that they would not budge. So I walked. The options were the automatic running boards at around $600. I am tall and they would be a waste of time for me. The other was the carpeted mats and rear mat. I would put weather techs in, so I had no need to spend money on carpeted mats that I would not use.
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Old 11-07-2013, 05:55 PM #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
Please explain your theory.
Invoice is laughable, because when you negotiate OTD, I bet they will remove/lower some fees

Better yet, how much did you pay OTD and what option did you get?
The only dealer fee I pay is a doc fee: recently $80 for a Mercedes. Before that $50.
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Old 11-07-2013, 05:57 PM #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry694 View Post
So called "invoice price" is not what the dealer paid for the car. They will never show you that price. Read the entire invoice and you will see a bunch of dollars added on that do not relate directly to the price of the vehicle. Just do your research and tell them what you are willing to pay and if they say no or start to toss out other numbers Walk out the door. You have to be reasonable on your offer also. I never haggle. Just make an offer and if they do not go for it I walk. .
All my negotiating is done by email or phone. Not sure why anyone would ever do otherwise these days.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:05 PM #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4r2014 View Post
The only dealer fee I pay is a doc fee: recently $80 for a Mercedes. Before that $50.
Please read the thread above. Dealer will never let you know how much they paid for a vehicle. Invoice means nothing. Dealers have lots of incentives, etc, etc.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:11 PM #36
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Good OTD price to go off of: edmunds TMV
Link to a sr5 TMV in my area:
2014 Toyota 4Runner SUV SR5 Price With True Market Value
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:23 PM #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoDak View Post
...actual cost of vehicle to dealer. ... dealer true cost including options.
Um, your numbers are wrong. The dealer's actual cost for the vehicle does not include holdback, for example. Also I highly doubt that the "true cost" to the dealer of clear paint protection is over $200...

My rule-of-thumb assumption is that the actual cost of the base vehicle to the dealer is about 3% below the invoice and that fluff options (like paint protection) have profit margins in hundreds of percent.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:23 PM #38
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[QUOTE=NoDak;1526480]just 2 weeks ago i bought a AS IS vehicle for $3600 OTD. guess what, that was the sticker price they had.

i made them figure out how to get to that OTD price. they ended up lowering the price of the vehicle to cover the TTL and dealer fee's.

i already did my research and had a mechanic go over the vehicle so i knew the final price i was williing to pay in cash.

i do understand your pov but there is a small set of people that can buy a vehicle without a trade or down payment and just outright buy one.



Exactly!
Back in 2011 my sr5 was MSRP roughly 35,500. I paid 34k OTD. They had to do a lot of subtracting from all the fees and price to get there. That why in voice means nothing.

Also if your not buying cash, still negotiate OTD, then get you own bank to finance.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:43 PM #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
Please read the thread above. Dealer will never let you know how much they paid for a vehicle. Invoice means nothing. Dealers have lots of incentives, etc, etc.
I was in the auto business on the corp level heavily involved with dealers. Invoice does not mean nothing. I know all about incentives both public and private. It is more complex than you will ever know unless you are immersed in it.

Invoice is a way to compare the deal from dealer to dealer. When you talk OTD to a dealer they see you as a sucker. Not to say that you can't get a good deal by negotiating OTD but you are firing in the dark. When you go in with a deal relative to invoice then you have a better barometer of the deal.

Best strategy is to contact the dealers in your area and give them an "X below invoice plus incentives" number and see what comes back. Be liberal with the X number, try $2000 to start. I do something a bit more sophisticated but you should almost always out deal and OTD strategy this way. Then negotiate trade-in, then fees (when appropriate) and then financing.

Take it or leave it advice from someone who has seen behind the curtain. Good luck.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:55 PM #40
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To all there own. I negotiate with OTD price. I can care less what the idiot sales guys think about me. I have the cash. I'm the consumer. I am shelling out the $$. If they say no to my OTD price, I walk. 3 years ago my OTD negotiation equaled to $1500 under invoice apparently plus the fees became less. I will post a Pic of my contract as proof when I get home


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4r2014 View Post
I was in the auto business on the corp level heavily involved with dealers. Invoice does not mean nothing. I know all about incentives both public and private. It is more complex than you will ever know unless you are immersed in it.

Invoice is a way to compare the deal from dealer to dealer. When you talk OTD to a dealer they see you as a sucker. Not to say that you can't get a good deal by negotiating OTD but you are firing in the dark. When you go in with a deal relative to invoice then you have a better barometer of the deal.

Best strategy is to contact the dealers in your area and give them an "X below invoice plus incentives" number and see what comes back. Be liberal with the X number, try $2000 to start. I do something a bit more sophisticated but you should almost always out deal and OTD strategy this way. Then negotiate trade-in, then fees (when appropriate) and then financing.

Take it or leave it advice from someone who has seen behind the curtain. Good luck.
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Old 11-07-2013, 07:01 PM #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
To all there own. I negotiate with OTD price. I can care less what the idiot sales guys think about me. I have the cash. I'm the consumer. I am shelling out the $$. If they say no to my OTD price, I walk. 3 years ago my OTD negotiation equaled to $1500 under invoice apparently plus the fees became less. I will post a Pic of my contract as proof when I get home
Sounds like you got a good deal. What type of fees did you have to pay?
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Old 11-07-2013, 07:03 PM #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4r2014 View Post
Sounds like you got a good deal. What type of fees did you have to pay?
I don't remember anything except that I paid exactly $33,975 OTD on a vehicle that had a sticker of $35,500+

Also,
I ordered my vehicle, it took them over 2 weeks to locate the exact vehicle I wanted... All for the above price. This was in October, same time of year as now, even a few weeks earlier , they were just starting to come into the lots.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:11 PM #43
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Wow...4 pages and not a single person has posted their OTD price except for the OP who posted the OTD price of his 2013
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:39 PM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
Trust me, with the amount of taxes that I pay, I'm already paying for Obamacare

On a serious note tho, I would like to see OTD prices not invoice stuff....
It's just the way I like to buy.

When you pay under invoice then get charged ridiculous fees by the dealer on top, means you overpaid....

Example, I bought my '11 SR5 for 33,975 OTD. To make that happen, they had to cut a lot of their "fees"
You know you can do BOTH! You negotiate the sale of the 4R 1st to the lowest possible price - comps to others on here based on supply/demand/willingness of dealer to make a sale.

Then you negotiate the fees, what you feel that you feel is appropriate to pay. Hell each sales person will cut the numbers how it best suites them to make a buck. He will ether give you a higher cost for the 4R and lower fees or the other way around to get your OTD price. Why not go in with BOTH guns blazing and tackle the best 4R price AND fee knock downs. Just a thought. Might save you a few bucks, comeing from a M******* himself.
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Old 11-08-2013, 12:09 AM #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N2GLOCK View Post
Wow...4 pages and not a single person has posted their OTD price except for the OP who posted the OTD price of his 2013
+1

Almost the entire thread is off-topic. Stop arguing about why the OP wants OTD prices instead of pre-tax/title/license. Participate if you want, or don't if you don't want.
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