[03_4x4Runner]

I was reading in the new Motor Trend magazine about the new 2016 Tacoma.
It is going to use a 3.5 liter engine with a 6 speed auto trans. With the FJ Cruiser no longer being made is the 4runner the only vehicle using the 4.0 engine? If so I can not imagine Toyota keeping it in production much longer since the only sell 50-60 k 4runner a year. I imagine the next gen 4runner is already designed and it probably will use the same engine as the new Tacoma. I think it has direct injection. I hope Toyota has better luck in the first year as some other manufactures has had with direct injection. I have read that GM has had a lot of initial problems and the increase in mpg and power is not worth the loss of reliability. It kind of scarce me the very high pressure the systems use. Over 2000 psi is I recall. Maybe we will be glad we have our old 4.0 engine and 5 speed trans after all.

[3wbdriver]

The FJ will still be produced. Just not sold in the US.

[Jeremy556]

FJC and Prado sold in other markets. Not sure if they still do, but they had the dual vvti in the Tundra at one point.

[mattr]

Originally Posted by 03_4x4Runner

If so I can not imagine Toyota keeping it in production much longer since the only sell 50-60 k 4runner a year.

Just an fyi, they moved almost 77k units in the US in 2014. I think most would agree though that the 4.0 is probably not going to carry on it its current form in the 6th gen for 2017 (or 2016 depending who you listen to). It's likely it will line to another motor that is part of the global strategy.

[chmura]

I noticed that Nissan has discontinued the Xterra in the USA.

Nissan Xterra Discontinued in U.S. | Edmunds.com

With the Xterra and FJC gone the Toyota 4runner BOF is basically the only rugged SUV out there.

I hope Toyota sees this as an opportunity to maximize sales in this smaller market because lots of Xterra and FJ folks will be purchasing a 4runner instead.

[02SE]

The 2016 Tacoma will have Direct and Port Injection. This is a system that Toyota already uses, to help prevent the deposit build up on intake valves.

[3wbdriver]

Originally Posted by chmura

I noticed that Nissan has discontinued the Xterra in the USA.

Nissan Xterra Discontinued in U.S. | Edmunds.com

With the Xterra and FJC gone the Toyota 4runner BOF is basically the only rugged SUV out there.

I hope Toyota sees this as an opportunity to maximize sales in this smaller market because lots of Xterra and FJ folks will be purchasing a 4runner instead.

Not that it's pertinent to this conversation but I think you write off the Wrangler Unlimited too easily. There is as much or more aftermarket available for that as there is for the 4Runner. And it is technically a BOF midsize with 4 doors. The rest of the Jeep line has become something of a joke, but that beastie still keeps them alive.

And this argument comes from a guy whose nickname is CJ and doesn't believe there has been a REAL Jeep made since 1983 (the last year of the CJ-5).

[Donkey]

Originally Posted by Jeremy556

FJC and Prado sold in other markets. Not sure if they still do, but they had the dual vvti in the Tundra at one point.

Your post made me curious, they do still offer the 4.0L in single/double cab 4x2 Tundras with a hefty GCWR. Some markets even offer the 4.0L on the LC200. Imagine all of the lazy throttle / performance complaints...

Toyota also chose the 4.0L for the Land Cruiser 70 series 30th anniversary edition.

wikipedia's list for the 1GR-FE:

Applications (with Dual VVT-i) in model years:
2010–present Toyota 4Runner (GRN280)
2010–present Toyota FJ Cruiser
2012–present Toyota Land Cruiser
2009–present Toyota Land Cruiser Prado (GRJ150/155)
2010–present Toyota Tundra (GSK50/51)
2012–present Lexus GX 400 (URJ150)
2014-15 Toyota Land Cruiser 70 30th Anniversary Edition

[1engineer]

in 2012 they sold 419,000 or so Prados worldwide. V6, Diesel, V8 totals.

[Jetboy]

Direct Injection with Toyota's D4S is nothing to worry about. The D4S system uses both direct and intake injectors during different fuel map scenarios. The problem with basic DI engines is that the fuel is directly sprayed into the cyl. That means it never flows over the intake valves (the part outside the cylinder). Since our EPA requires among other things EGR and most importantly PCV systems, there is some dirty stuff flowing over the intake valves. Primarily oil residue from the PCV system. This oil will build up on the intake valves and cause problems.

If you flow fuel with detergent over the intake valves it solves this problem. The D4S does this. I have heard of no issues at all with intake carbon buildup on the D4S engines. Even the 4Gr we had in our Lexus IS250 that uses 7 injectors was pretty clean - but it only uses the 7th injector in the intake plenum on cold starts, so in cold weather it was often enough, but in warm weather climates the engine had major issues with carbon buildup. Ours was problem free. The D4S uses the intake runner injectors a lot more than the 4GR system.

I wouldn't worry about it at all. It should be a great engine. I'd trade in a second for the 3.5 and 6 speed auto over the 4.0 and 5 speed auto. I'd love the 3.5 and the 8 speed. It'd be like having a 4.56 diffs and still all the highway gearing you'd want.

[NuclearN8]

you could also install an air oil seperator in the pcv dishrage line if you want to minimize the recycling oil mist hitting the backside of your intake valves if you're really worried about it...

Moroso 85481 Air/Oil Separator for GM Truck: Amazon.ca: Automotive

in the big scheme of things I'd be really surprised if the 6th gen 4runner engine/tranny combo was any different than the 2016 tacoma... just makes no sense to put extra engineering hours/resources at the powertrain... if it works in the tacoma, it'll work in the 4Runner just the same. Having the same powertrain in the 4runner and tacoma makes perfect business sen$e.

now saying that, I'd love to see the Tundra powertrain combo in the 4Runner instead of the Tacoma.

[m85476585]

Originally Posted by Jetboy

Direct Injection with Toyota's D4S is nothing to worry about. The D4S system uses both direct and intake injectors during different fuel map scenarios. The problem with basic DI engines is that the fuel is directly sprayed into the cyl. That means it never flows over the intake valves (the part outside the cylinder). Since our EPA requires among other things EGR and most importantly PCV systems, there is some dirty stuff flowing over the intake valves. Primarily oil residue from the PCV system. This oil will build up on the intake valves and cause problems.

If you flow fuel with detergent over the intake valves it solves this problem. The D4S does this. I have heard of no issues at all with intake carbon buildup on the D4S engines. Even the 4Gr we had in our Lexus IS250 that uses 7 injectors was pretty clean - but it only uses the 7th injector in the intake plenum on cold starts, so in cold weather it was often enough, but in warm weather climates the engine had major issues with carbon buildup. Ours was problem free. The D4S uses the intake runner injectors a lot more than the 4GR system.

I wouldn't worry about it at all. It should be a great engine. I'd trade in a second for the 3.5 and 6 speed auto over the 4.0 and 5 speed auto. I'd love the 3.5 and the 8 speed. It'd be like having a 4.56 diffs and still all the highway gearing you'd want.

I read somewhere the 6 speed has the same ratios as the 5 speed but an extra high 6th gear. I can't find it now, so I don't know if that's true.

in the big scheme of things I'd be really surprised if the 6th gen 4runner engine/tranny combo was any different than the 2016 tacoma... just makes no sense to put extra engineering hours/resources at the powertrain... if it works in the tacoma, it'll work in the 4Runner just the same. Having the same powertrain in the 4runner and tacoma makes perfect business sen$e.

That makes sense, but they haven't done that in the past. Historically the US Tacoma, 4runner, and FJ have had slightly different powertrains for no good reason. The 2015 Tacoma and latest 4runner and FJ each have slightly different power outputs from the 4.0L V6. I think the Tacoma has single VVT-i and the others have dual?

The 4th gen 4runner has either a multi-mode t case or fulltime t-case with electronic actuation. FJs from the same era had a fulltime t-case with manual actuation, and the Tacoma had a part time system.

It always baffles me how many subtle variations on stuff Toyota has. It seems like it would be a lot more profitable if they reused designs more.

[Jetboy]

Originally Posted by m85476585

I read somewhere the 6 speed has the same ratios as the 5 speed but an extra high 6th gear. I can't find it now, so I don't know if that's true.

That's correct. The 6 speed is the same across the board, with one extra overdrive gear. If you compare the ratio of 6th gear to 5th, (assuming the other gears matched up reasonably well) a 4.56 gearing with the 6 speed results in nearly exactly the same final drive ratio in 6th gear as 3.73 differentials and 5th gear.

I was dreaming of the 8 speed. It has both a 4.6:1 first gear (vs 3.5:1 in the 5 or 6 speed) and a .685 8th gear. So in 8th gear to match up with our current 5th gear you could use 3.9:1 and have similar highway gearing. However with a 3.9 diff 1st gear would be 5.00:1. So you could have the effective equivalent of 5:1 differentials in 1st gear with the same highway rpm in 8th gear.

Basically the 6 speed would be awesome, and the 8 speed would be really f'n awesome.

[cjacob316]

Originally Posted by m85476585

I read somewhere the 6 speed has the same ratios as the 5 speed but an extra high 6th gear. I can't find it now, so I don't know if that's true.



That makes sense, but they haven't done that in the past. Historically the US Tacoma, 4runner, and FJ have had slightly different powertrains for no good reason. The 2015 Tacoma and latest 4runner and FJ each have slightly different power outputs from the 4.0L V6. I think the Tacoma has single VVT-i and the others have dual?

The 4th gen 4runner has either a multi-mode t case or fulltime t-case with electronic actuation. FJs from the same era had a fulltime t-case with manual actuation, and the Tacoma had a part time system.

It always baffles me how many subtle variations on stuff Toyota has. It seems like it would be a lot more profitable if they reused designs more.

The 4runner and Tacoma had the same 4.0 engine from 05-09, the FJ had it from 07-09, the SUV's got the new engine in 2010 with the 5th gen 4runner, why would they change the engine in the Tacoma without a redesign? They also shared the same 3.4L from 96-02. Historically, they DO share the same engine, this 4.0 will be the first one they do not share because the Tacoma "skipped" it. IF the 4runner gets a redesign within a few years, it will likely take on the same engine as the Tacoma as it did in the 95 and 96 releases.