10-07-2015, 02:01 PM
|
#1
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 19
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 19
|
KDSS Question...Sorry
I'm planning to pick up a 2014+ 4runner and start a mild build. I am leaning to the TE Premium, because the sunroof and Softex makes my wife happy. She will ultimately drive this vehicle a lot on the street, but I want my build too. I really struggle to justify the TRD Pro extra cost...even if I could find one.
If I buy a TEP without KDSS, can I create a similar on and off-road feel with an aftermarket suspension that is not going to break my bank. I have driven a KDSS model and like the on-road feel, and my wife would as well. I have a built 2dr Wrangler that I wheel, so I am really looking for more of an Overland feel and performance. I want a smooth off-road ride with soft landings and the ability to cover distances at moderate speed. I'm not looking for a rock crawler. I assume the TRD Pro has this feel.
Thanks for your help. I am not trying to fan the KDSS flames, but looking for a specific type of performance.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-07-2015, 02:13 PM
|
#2
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 860
|
|
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 860
|
to answer your question... YES.
5100s on all 4 corners greatly improves it.
6112/5160 is popular..
or go ICON and dont look back
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-07-2015, 02:16 PM
|
#3
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 19
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 19
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ST1FLER
to answer your question... YES.
5100s on all 4 corners greatly improves it.
6112/5160 is popular..
or go ICON and dont look back
|
If I can find SR5 with the roof and seats, is an aftermarket locker as good. I do want the locker, and I get all the considerations about warranty.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-07-2015, 02:23 PM
|
#4
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 4,968
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 4,968
|
I would say the answer is sort of. You should be able to create about any type of off-road suspension feel you wish. Same with on-road. It's pretty tricky to do both at the same time. It's a lot easier to get similar or better offroad performance. It's very hard to match the street performance.
There are many aftermarket setups that people are happy with on and off road.
It's a cool system and IMO a pretty good value. You cannot spend $1750 more to upgrade an aftermarket suspension and match its road manners. So for example moving up one "stage" of ICON will not replicate KDSS for the same dollars. You probably can build a better offroad suspension than stock for $1750 in parts though. So, I guess I'd say for example nonKDSS with FOX 2.5 shocks will outperform KDSS and stock shocks in the dirt, but not on the road. Fox 2.5s with KDSS will be better than Fox 2.5s with remote reservoirs and UCAs for most uses.
Good luck!
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-07-2015, 02:27 PM
|
#5
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 4,968
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 4,968
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsthelaw
If I can find SR5 with the roof and seats, is an aftermarket locker as good. I do want the locker, and I get all the considerations about warranty.
|
This question is also hard to answer. An ARB is not as reliable as a factory locker. It will need to be rebuilt every 10 years or so as the internal air seals fail. Also if you swamp the compressor you're SOL. If it's in the engine bay and you do deep water crossings it can be a problem. There is an argument in favor of ARB that they are stronger - which isn't well established in this application either way - and that they engage and disengage faster.
There is an EATON brand e-locker that looks to be the best of the 3 options, but you'll have to order it from Australia as I'm not sure there are any USA distributors. It works very similarly to an ARB but uses an electromagnet rather than air. So it eliminates the issues with air actuation. If I were going aftermarket, that would be my first choice. It's about the same cost as an ARB plus compressor. So it's expensive. I hope ARB will at some point decide to move in the same direction.
Last edited by Jetboy; 10-07-2015 at 02:30 PM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-07-2015, 02:37 PM
|
#6
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 860
|
|
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 860
|
Id say ARB and EATON are both as good if not better. BUT the factory locker is covered under warranty.... so its a trade off. I have run ARB in all previous builds and LOVE LOVE LOVE them!
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-07-2015, 02:38 PM
|
#7
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,433
Real Name: Dave
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,433
Real Name: Dave
|
KDSS on TEP
The KDSS system has stiffer anti-sway bars that improve cornering and rough road conditions over a non-KDSS 4Runner. This is usefull for pavement and mild off-road, dirt road conditions. KDSS also improves wheel articulation at slow speeds over moguls, holes, rocks and bumps. You can't duplicate that with any typical off-road aftermarket products.
For off-road suspension that improves rock crawling or body clearance such as approach and departure angles then increased lift is the solution. You can easily do a mild 2" to 3" lift with KDSS. Folks here have said that for long travel lifts the KDSS makes it harder to install or the KDSS needs to be disconnected, as I recall. And you don't need KDSS with long travel for off-road capabilities. But long travel and big lifts increase wind resistance, lower gas mileage, raise the center of gravity and detract from street and highway driving due to the raised center of gravity.
For what you describe, KDSS offers the best ride, IMO.
__________________
2015 T4R Trail Edition w/KDSS. Baja Rack flat utility rack, Baja Rack ladder, WeatherTech floor mats, Demello rock sliders. RCI skid plates, Falken AT3W LT285/70R17 tires, ICON Stage 7 tubular 2" extended travel lift, ICON Rebound 17x8.5" 0 offset alloy wheels, Baxter Performance remote oil filter adapter. Side exit exhaust, 2nd recovery hook on rear frame corner, DIY wheel well liners with 1/4" neoprene rubber.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-07-2015, 06:01 PM
|
#8
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Northern Maine
Posts: 238
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Northern Maine
Posts: 238
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsthelaw
I have driven a KDSS model and like the on-road feel, and my wife would as well.
|
Why not just get KDSS option instead of trying to recreate it? JMO. And TEP will have rear diff lock.
__________________
2018 TRD-ORP Classic Silver w/KDSS
2015 TEP Super White w/KDSS
2010 TE Magnetic Grey (Gone but not forgotten)
2006 SE V-6 (Gone but not forgotten)
1996 SR5 4cyl 5 speed (Gone but not forgotten)
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-07-2015, 06:22 PM
|
#9
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Keller ,Texas
Posts: 99
|
|
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Keller ,Texas
Posts: 99
|
I have a non Kdss 2014 trail that I put 5100 Bilsteins on. It definately improved on road and off road manners. That being said my buddy has a Kdss equiped trail and after my upgrade I can't tell the difference and the Billies were alot cheaper.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-07-2015, 06:32 PM
|
#10
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 19
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 19
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by off-road runner
Why not just get KDSS option instead of trying to recreate it? JMO. And TEP will have rear diff lock.
|
The one that is currently available has KDSS, so I may just get it. If it was to fail outside of warranty, which I think is unlikely under very high miles, I would probably just fix it. Anyone want to buy a BMW x5?
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-07-2015, 07:00 PM
|
#11
|
Banned
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 860
|
|
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 860
|
replacing shocks and coils is much cheaper than repairing KDSS.... just sayin
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-07-2015, 07:10 PM
|
#12
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 19
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: NC
Posts: 19
|
It seems like the TRD Pro was build for the type of off road I want to do. Do they not put in KDSS to keep price down, give it a less complex system, or build it more for off road? I doubt it is price. I've never driven a Pro, but wish I could compare them.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-07-2015, 09:34 PM
|
#13
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Northern Maine
Posts: 238
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Northern Maine
Posts: 238
|
TRDPro is kinda viewed by many to be an appearance package. Different front grille garnish and black rims are what stands out. Suppose to be an inch higher up front. Auto headlights.
I don't think it is any more capable off road than a Trail and vice versa. Some people may argue that KDSS may give an advantage in certain off-road situations and some will argue the 1" of clearance loss on KDSS equiped vehicles will hinder it in other situations yadayadayada.
It sounds like you want a TEP with moonroof and maybe future mods can be done to get the "pro" look.
Don't worry about KDSS breakage, doesn't seam common.
__________________
2018 TRD-ORP Classic Silver w/KDSS
2015 TEP Super White w/KDSS
2010 TE Magnetic Grey (Gone but not forgotten)
2006 SE V-6 (Gone but not forgotten)
1996 SR5 4cyl 5 speed (Gone but not forgotten)
Last edited by off-road runner; 10-07-2015 at 09:40 PM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-07-2015, 10:01 PM
|
#14
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: West rural Louisiana
Age: 65
Posts: 2,566
Real Name: CJ
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: West rural Louisiana
Age: 65
Posts: 2,566
Real Name: CJ
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsthelaw
It seems like the TRD Pro was build for the type of off road I want to do. Do they not put in KDSS to keep price down, give it a less complex system, or build it more for off road? I doubt it is price. I've never driven a Pro, but wish I could compare them.
|
It is my opinion - and only my opinion - from reading about the TRD Pro's suspension package, that they left the KDSS off of it because the very type of driving you describe is in fact what it is meant for. KDSS by its nature and design is intended to detect body roll and stop it at normal highway speeds. While off road it detects slow up/down movement of individual corners and allows the suspension to flex. It could very well be confused into not knowing whether it wants to keep your vehicle flat or allow it to flex at the moderate speeds the Pro suspension was designed for. All of this is just conjecture from my perspective. Watch some Youtube videos about KDSS and decide for yourself.
__________________
2014 Trail Edition -
Build Thread
2015 Epic in my own mind trip
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
10-07-2015, 11:39 PM
|
#15
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Oahu
Posts: 296
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Oahu
Posts: 296
|
In a similar situation ordered a 2016 trail with KDSS and will install Pro rims, new tires, frontrunner rack, and sliders from day one.
Because of our camping gear I know I will eventually want the 2 inch icon (or similar) springs for extra load capacity. Which also means needing to lift the front.
I'm also able to get a 7 year warranty for $1,200. (On the fence on that one). Worried any aftermarket lift will negate any suspension issues I may have as they will point to the lift to blame.
I am getting a slight discount on the trail, but would pay MSRP on the Pro (Hawaii). A Pro (although would come with a factory covered lift), isn't worth the additional 7k. I am eyeing up a future Icon stage 2 or 3.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Rate This Thread |
Linear Mode
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
|