Home Menu

Site Navigation


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-22-2015, 07:10 PM #1
jwkilgore's Avatar
jwkilgore jwkilgore is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 763
jwkilgore is on a distinguished road
jwkilgore jwkilgore is offline
Member
jwkilgore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 763
jwkilgore is on a distinguished road
Question about custom bumper fabrication

My long-term goal is to get steel bumpers for my 2011 SR5. Right now SSS for the rear and Shrockworks for the front. I wanted a SSS front, but other factors have eliminated that one. Other things were coming first, specifically better undercarriage armor (skids and slides) and a upgraded springs/shocks to carry the weight.

But now things have changed. One, my wife rear-ended a boat and the prop trashed the grill and put a hole in the lower bumper cover. Second, I lightly side-swiped a tree during a reverse turnaround on the trail, which further scratched the lower cover (this is why the SSS bumper won't work). And finally, my dad (who retired about 2 years ago) may be finally running out of welding projects. He's fully capable of building a bumper if I leave the vehicle with him.

My concern is with safety, as this is a 95% daily driver for my wife. With the OEM bumper, a moderate impact (less than 20mph?) is mostly absorbed by the crush cans between the aluminum bumper support and the frame. But if the steel bumper is mounted directly to the frame, any impact will transmit the full force to the frame/occupants. This could cause a moderate impact to trigger the airbags when not needed, and/or bend the main frame instead of just the crush cans. This would factor both in a rear-end collision on the street and a hit on a tree or rock on the trail.

So...
1) Does the ARB bumper hang off the OEM crush cans, or do they incorporate new crush zones in their design?
2) I'm thinking it would be possible to have a 3-way system with a custom bumper:
- The winch would be on a separate beam hard-mounted to the frame, similar to a hidden-mount;
- The vertical weight of the bumper (and anyone standing on the bumper, and/or lifting the truck with a hi-lift under the bumper) would be supported by the primary frame and/or winch frame, but with slotted holes such that;
- The first few inches of longitudinal force on the bumper from external impact would go through either the OEM or hand-build crush cans.

I'd have to work out recovery points, because I don't think the crush cans would handle a hard snatch. Most likely I'd use access holes and the OEM points or else new points mounted to the frame. Or else locate the slotted longitudinal holes such that the bumper is free to move toward the vehicle but would be fixed if pulling away from the vehicle.

Any thoughts on this, @1engineer ?
@marshal , I saw that the frame horns were damaged in your wreck with the 4x4Labs bumper. Any thoughts from you?

Does this sound even remotely reasonable? Or am I overthinking this; just order the Shrockworks and be done with it?
__________________
2011 SR5 4WD, Maroon, no 3rd row, no sliding cargo tray.
ARB Bumper/Bullbar; Southern Style Offroad Sliders; Budbuilt Gastank Skid
OME Nitrocharger Sport Suspension (884 front, 895E rear); Gen Grabber ATX 275/70R/17

Last edited by jwkilgore; 11-22-2015 at 08:46 PM.
jwkilgore is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 11-22-2015, 08:56 PM #2
Hellamatic's Avatar
Hellamatic Hellamatic is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Drayton Valley, AB
Age: 40
Posts: 841
Hellamatic is on a distinguished road
Hellamatic Hellamatic is offline
Member
Hellamatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Drayton Valley, AB
Age: 40
Posts: 841
Hellamatic is on a distinguished road
The ARB has crumple zones incorporated into the frame brackets. The factory recovery points are retained, so you can still use those for snatch recoveries. Personally, I'd just buy a bumper instead of fabricating and save the hassle, but if your pop has a plethora of time on his hands it couldn't hurt to try.
__________________
2012 4Runner Trail Edition....None more black

Hellamatic - Build Thread

Last edited by Hellamatic; 11-22-2015 at 08:58 PM.
Hellamatic is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 11-22-2015, 10:15 PM #3
1engineer's Avatar
1engineer 1engineer is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Southern Appalachian Mountains
Age: 61
Posts: 9,941
Real Name: Greg
1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light
1engineer 1engineer is offline
Moderator
1engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Southern Appalachian Mountains
Age: 61
Posts: 9,941
Real Name: Greg
1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light 1engineer is a glorious beacon of light
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
My long-term goal is to get steel bumpers for my 2011 SR5. Right now SSS for the rear and Shrockworks for the front. I wanted a SSS front, but other factors have eliminated that one. Other things were coming first, specifically better undercarriage armor (skids and slides) and a upgraded springs/shocks to carry the weight.

But now things have changed. One, my wife rear-ended a boat and the prop trashed the grill and put a hole in the lower bumper cover. Second, I lightly side-swiped a tree during a reverse turnaround on the trail, which further scratched the lower cover (this is why the SSS bumper won't work). And finally, my dad (who retired about 2 years ago) may be finally running out of welding projects. He's fully capable of building a bumper if I leave the vehicle with him.

My concern is with safety, as this is a 95% daily driver for my wife. With the OEM bumper, a moderate impact (less than 20mph?) is mostly absorbed by the crush cans between the aluminum bumper support and the frame. But if the steel bumper is mounted directly to the frame, any impact will transmit the full force to the frame/occupants. This could cause a moderate impact to trigger the airbags when not needed, and/or bend the main frame instead of just the crush cans. This would factor both in a rear-end collision on the street and a hit on a tree or rock on the trail.

So...
1) Does the ARB bumper hang off the OEM crush cans, or do they incorporate new crush zones in their design?
2) I'm thinking it would be possible to have a 3-way system with a custom bumper:
- The winch would be on a separate beam hard-mounted to the frame, similar to a hidden-mount;
- The vertical weight of the bumper (and anyone standing on the bumper, and/or lifting the truck with a hi-lift under the bumper) would be supported by the primary frame and/or winch frame, but with slotted holes such that;
- The first few inches of longitudinal force on the bumper from external impact would go through either the OEM or hand-build crush cans.

I'd have to work out recovery points, because I don't think the crush cans would handle a hard snatch. Most likely I'd use access holes and the OEM points or else new points mounted to the frame. Or else locate the slotted longitudinal holes such that the bumper is free to move toward the vehicle but would be fixed if pulling away from the vehicle.

Any thoughts on this, @1engineer ?
@marshal , I saw that the frame horns were damaged in your wreck with the 4x4Labs bumper. Any thoughts from you?

Does this sound even remotely reasonable? Or am I overthinking this; just order the Shrockworks and be done with it?
I posted the physics of aftermarket bumpers and crashes somewhere.I will look for it.
1engineer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 11-23-2015, 12:24 AM #4
wfo9's Avatar
wfo9 wfo9 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,991
wfo9 has a spectacular aura about wfo9 has a spectacular aura about
wfo9 wfo9 is offline
Senior Member
wfo9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,991
wfo9 has a spectacular aura about wfo9 has a spectacular aura about
There is no easy answer to this one...

My opinion.... If your wife drives it most of the time, stick with OEM.
__________________
2011 SR5 4x4, Magnuson Supercharger, ICON ET coil overs, MT ICON LT rear, MT offset lower links, URD Y-Pipe, TC UCAs, Baja Rack, MT Sliders, RCI Aluminum skids, 4.56 gearing with ARB lockers front and rear. 305/70 Goodyear MTRs (34") on Konig Countersteer 17x8. Addicted front bumper, Custom undercover tube protection rear. LT font or SAS going on next.
1989 Hilux - 22RE, SAS, hydro assist, Full Exo cage, dual ultimate cases, RCVs, 529s w Detroit locker rear + ARB front, Diamond Axle, bead locks, 40s.
wfo9 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 11-23-2015, 10:04 AM #5
jwkilgore's Avatar
jwkilgore jwkilgore is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 763
jwkilgore is on a distinguished road
jwkilgore jwkilgore is offline
Member
jwkilgore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 763
jwkilgore is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by wfo9 View Post
There is no easy answer to this one...
My opinion.... If your wife drives it most of the time, stick with OEM.
Normally I'd agree with you. She likes it because it rides better than her older 2WD Pathfinder, and I let her drive it because my commute is about 36 miles round trip vs her 8 miles.

But this is my only off-road capable vehicle. I bought this specific vehicle before we got married because of its off-road capabilities, and I do use it off-road. Or more accurately, I use it on "roads" that aren't 2WD friendly, and some of them fully test the A-Trac system.

I'm not going to spend $$ on a new OEM plastic bumper when I can spend $$$ and get a significant upgrade to a steel bumper where I can eventually mount a winch. Worst case is we just swap keys and I drive the 4Runner, but I'd rather do everything I can to keep her both happy and safe while improving my off-roading capability.

Also, it's still speculation at this point. I'm still going to get skids and slides first (much more effective use of money), and I'll need a suspension upgrade at the same time as the bumper. I'm slowly getting back in control after all the financial issues over the past 9 months (starting with $5000 from a dog dying of stage 5 cancer after my wife pulled all the stops to save her, then going downhill from there), but I'm still working on it.

At the earliest this bumper wouldn't happen until late next spring, more likely next summer. It's just that all the recent damage to the OEM bumper got me thinking about it, and if I'm going to design one myself I need to get some information first. I'm going home for Thanksgiving and I'll yank off the bumper in my dad's shop so we can start scratching our heads.
__________________
2011 SR5 4WD, Maroon, no 3rd row, no sliding cargo tray.
ARB Bumper/Bullbar; Southern Style Offroad Sliders; Budbuilt Gastank Skid
OME Nitrocharger Sport Suspension (884 front, 895E rear); Gen Grabber ATX 275/70R/17

Last edited by jwkilgore; 11-23-2015 at 10:12 AM.
jwkilgore is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 11-23-2015, 12:23 PM #6
marshal's Avatar
marshal marshal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 1,754
Real Name: Will
marshal is on a distinguished road
marshal marshal is offline
Senior Member
marshal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 1,754
Real Name: Will
marshal is on a distinguished road
Don't forget I broadsided a 7000lb truck at 40mph. I think trashed frame horns is a moot point.

The factory crush cans are in no way shape or form suited to be used as a recovery point. ARB uses their own integrated crumple zones.
__________________
2017 RAM Power Wagon

|Forge Overland| or follow us on Facebook
marshal is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bumper fabrication shops in Denver? BuffsRunner Off-Roading 10 04-06-2020 06:42 AM
Front Bumper Fabrication Assistance mizake 4th Gen T4Rs 0 10-26-2014 04:32 AM
Advice for painting arb bumper and custom swingout bumper masphx 3rd gen T4Rs 8 10-09-2014 02:35 AM
Rear Bumper and Sliders from Relentless Fabrication RPD1103 4th Gen T4Rs 20 12-12-2013 01:01 AM
Brand New: High Country Fabrication Bumper MtnT4R 4th Gen T4Rs 8 07-26-2013 12:15 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:07 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2020