I loved your video Mark; you're a PRO at that! Now, The Stock Small end-frame DENSO (Hair-pin) Alternator, tho it says 130A, is really pushing it as far as "Real World Output!" When it's cold... maybe! But once it warms up, will struggle to maintain 13.4; especially in the summer months!
Thanks! and thanks for the information too.
Do you know if the 270XP had any effect at all on your fuel economy?
__________________ I'm 007Tacoma.
...well yeah... because we have a... 2007 Tacoma... no a 2008 Tacoma... no a 2003 4Runner er... 2015 4Runner Trail Edition
It has had zero effect on my gas mileage as far as I can tell. Even with running a dual battery system.
I track it via an app at every fill up since the first tank, difference is negligible enough I can't even tell.
Thanks!
Yeah we use "Road Trip" by Darren Stone on iOS to track our Fuel Economy. I'm definitely going to be upgrading my alternator soon. the current one is on the way out.
__________________ I'm 007Tacoma.
...well yeah... because we have a... 2007 Tacoma... no a 2008 Tacoma... no a 2003 4Runner er... 2015 4Runner Trail Edition
Do you know if the 270XP had any effect at all on your fuel economy?
Hi 007Tacoma!
I'm glad you were able to order the 270-XP; you'll NEVER be sorry you did! As far as the fuel economy factor... I've never heard that mentioned in any Technical Reports wrt the 270-XP... the only obvious difference (to me), would be: "The factory 130A Denso" alternator generates a tremendous amount of HEAT... which equals wasted energy because it's so easily overloaded! It's like running a toaster under the hood, but NOT receiving any of the benefits of the final product, "NO TOAST!"
On the other hand: "The 270-XP runs a lot Cooler as it can generate 200A at curb-side idle, and never blinks when ya turn on the Blower, the heater, or even the Winch, which is seldom I'd imagine! I truly believe that the 270's affect upon fuel economy is negligible at worst, or it would have come up in their competitor's (e.g. "Mech-Man") Electrical "A-B" test comparison reports! And even though I don't watch my fuel eco; (I drive a company service Vehicle for work: Comm'l HVAC Service/Repair), my 2012 LE still has 25,350 Miles on the clock to this day!
So I'd say, the benefits of having the 270-XP, far out weigh any cost of operations therein! 'Best to you and yours 007Tacoma
rig, Cheers!
__________________ 2012 Limited (in bliz) Black leather interior.
Commercial hvac diagnostics/electrical specialist (Steamfitters Journeyman Local 475)
Sarcastically: Blasphemy! No way I’m going to all that trouble to change pulleys and the replacements are not lightweight billet anodized aluminum made by HKS.
Just the other day, one of our community members had a question and it was an EXCELLENT ONE! He was trying to determine if one of his new accessories was defective or if his new 4Runner was having trouble supplying enough voltage/amperage to feed it properly. Well, as far as I know the jury is still out on that conclusion. But my position is that sometimes the problem isn't that our 130A Denso (small case) hairpin alternator isn't capable of supplying enough current to your accessories. Sometimes the trouble exists because our alternators are not able to supply enough current... 'at curbside idle!
"Well rigtec, what are we supposed to do... go out and spend $800 bucks and buy a Huge output alternator like you did; money don't grow on trees you know..." lol! No, not at all tech-team! What you can do about not having enough current to run certain accessories when idling is simply change the alternator's idle speed by manipulating the Crankshaft to alternator pulley ratio. Here's how that works: Your 5'th gen 4Runner employs a 6 inch crankshaft pulley (w/6 or 7 grooves) which turns everything from your water pump to your power steering pump...etc! Now your alt pulley IIRC is about three inches +/- .5 inches.
That gives a 2 to 1 alt ratio e.g., so if your engine/crankshaft turns at say: 800 RPM, then your alternator pulley is turning at 1600 RPM; which gives a 2 to 1 ratio. But that can be changed within a nominally margined upgrade. If you install a 2 inch +/- alt pulley and the crank spins at 800 RPM then the alt pulley will turn at 2400 RPM at idle; which yields a 3 to 1 spin ratio. It's not a matter of needing more alternator output; 130A may be plenty for your basic needs. It's just a matter of when you need to use it, which in this case, you need to be there while at idle, like for sitting still with the engine running and watching the tv or trying to chill a six-pack!
The only caution I guess would be a marginal amount of extra wear and tear when revving the engine at high rpms, like when doing 65-70 mph, the rpm may be up to 4,000 rpm; which means the alt will turn at 12,000 rpm, so the bearings and brushes life span will suffer, but like they say: "There's no free lunch"! Here are a few articles that I pulled from my library for your reference; they're very good reading info; especially in the bathroom!:
Here's another article to hold on to just FYI!
Listen folks, I realize that I put a lot of information here, but I tend to post threads here that no one else has posted about with any intensive, peripheral, theoretical detail and my threads address issues that are highly relevant to your subjects of concern on these forums! I never intended for you to read all of this stuff at one time (lol), just print the ones you are interested in and put them aside for another time. I say it's relevant because this is a truck modification advisory forum and does involve about 55-60% of electrical T/S that we provide here, so I just want you to be somewhat informed about the mods that you're interested in 'BEFORE' your desperate cry for help, hahaha!
Oh... Here's a documented video of an alternator that's dishing out 75% of it's full load capacity; it really doesn't matter how many amperes that it's capable of, but it's pulley size/ratio is determining it's curbside idle percentage output... your's will do the same thing (just not the same amount of current) wrt it's ratio! Hope you enjoy the read An alternator putting out 75% of it's full load at idle
rig
This is an interesting study. I’m having a hard time believing that increasing the alternator’s drive speed by 50% wouldn’t cause a dramatic failure. Changing from a 2:1 to a 3:1 drive ratio means your alternator is changing from ~12,000 rpm to 18,000 rpm max speed. Beyond the severe increase in bearing stress it is likely the other internal components are not designed for the resulting centripetal force.
Centripetal Force can be calculated as mass*angular velocity squared* radius. Mass and radius are constant. So, the change from 12,000 to 18,000 RPM means an increase of 2.25x the force. That’s pushing the ~2:1 - 3:1 factor of safety most non life/safety dependent systems are designed with.
Seems like, for the trouble, swapping for a higher capacity alternator makes a lot more sense.
Thanks for all of your insight RIG...very informative.
BUT, if I read this correctly, what is the owner of a 2017 or newer to do?
Apparently our ECU thinks it knows better than we do about voltage/Amperage requirements...
A BCDC 1225 charger is a work around for those with both a LEAD ACID and an AGM battery...but we are still stuck with a puny 130A alternator...
What options do we have have to up the amps to 270?
I thought about the pulley change but, I am running 4.88's and 70mph is already 2600 rpm ish. Any more and the bearings will be screaming for mercy..
Any and all options will be welcomed!
AMLOR
__________________
REMEMBER: Birth control prevents Mini-vans...
2019 TRD PRO: Victory 4x4 Blitz bumper & sliders, Smittybilt 12K, Factor 55, Bubba Rope, Van Beest, C4 Fab, Power Tank, Xenon Depot, Cali Raised LED, ARB, SPC UCA's, Rad Rubber, REDARC, StrongBox, TRD Pro front coils, CE Auto Elect., Blue Sea, SDHQ/SP9100, Cornfed, RCI skids, BajaRack "basket", Revolution Gear 4.88's, Dobinsons 300lb over stock rear springs. DrawTight Class IV frame mounted hitch, Method Racing 703 Bead grip.
This is an interesting study. I’m having a hard time believing that increasing the alternator’s drive speed by 50% wouldn’t cause a dramatic failure. Changing from a 2:1 to a 3:1 drive ratio means your alternator is changing from ~12,000 rpm to 18,000 rpm max speed. Beyond the severe increase in bearing stress it is likely the other internal components are not designed for the resulting centripetal force.
Centripetal Force can be calculated as mass*angular velocity squared* radius. Mass and radius are constant. So, the change from 12,000 to 18,000 RPM means an increase of 2.25x the force. That’s pushing the ~2:1 - 3:1 factor of safety most non life/safety dependent systems are designed with.
Seems like, for the trouble, swapping for a higher capacity alternator makes a lot more sense.
Why is it hard to believe that it would fail? What do you think happens cruising 2k RPM vs 3k RPM? A 50% increase in rotational speed!
BUT, if I read this correctly, what is the owner of a 2017 or newer to do?
Apparently our ECU thinks it knows better than we do about voltage/Amperage requirements...
A BCDC 1225 charger is a work around for those with both a LEAD ACID and an AGM battery...but we are still stuck with a puny 130A alternator...
What options do we have have to up the amps to 270?
Any and all options will be welcomed!
AMLOR
@AMLOR
did you get get an uprated alternator, or otherwise solve the 130A alternator problem?
@AMLOR
did you get get an uprated alternator, or otherwise solve the 130A alternator problem?
Well, sort of.... the 270A alternator is on my list of cool stuff to do to the 4R, but not as of yet.
Currently running the "GM diode" trick on my 2019 with acceptable results.
Output is 14.2-14.5v on cold startup. That said I DO believe this mod shortened the life of my Optima Red start battery.
All other auxiliary power needs are routed through a RedArc BCDC 1225 that manages the AGM auxiliary battery at 13.2-13.5V.
__________________
REMEMBER: Birth control prevents Mini-vans...
2019 TRD PRO: Victory 4x4 Blitz bumper & sliders, Smittybilt 12K, Factor 55, Bubba Rope, Van Beest, C4 Fab, Power Tank, Xenon Depot, Cali Raised LED, ARB, SPC UCA's, Rad Rubber, REDARC, StrongBox, TRD Pro front coils, CE Auto Elect., Blue Sea, SDHQ/SP9100, Cornfed, RCI skids, BajaRack "basket", Revolution Gear 4.88's, Dobinsons 300lb over stock rear springs. DrawTight Class IV frame mounted hitch, Method Racing 703 Bead grip.