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Old 01-21-2018, 05:31 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...3N1TEATIYMtWmQ

Paper filter 99.86. AFE 86.80. Percent of dust captured in ISO5011 air filtration standard test.

I don't have a dog in the fight. Just letting you make an informed choice. If you go in for service with an AFE filter and its noted in your service record you should expect the engine warranty to be voided. Completely justifiably so. You have chosen to allow 300 times as much dirt into the engine. If you want to still use it and care about the warranty you should probably take it out before going in for repair or service.
went in for service with my TRD CAI w/ AFE filter nothing was said.

PS. thanks for posting S&B information and testing. I know one of the lead engineers there; personally and ask him if he can verify...
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:25 PM #17
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The industry term for this is "dusting". It's been an issue in the diesel world for some time now in regards to warranty. Anyone who rides dirt bikes know Gauze style filters don't filter fine particles very well.

I run the stock paper filter in my Supercharged cars with literally no power loss.


Back on topic, OP, you stated it helped throttle response. Do you mean the lag is reduced from tip-in ?
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:22 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyle Edison View Post
The industry term for this is "dusting". It's been an issue in the diesel world for some time now in regards to warranty. Anyone who rides dirt bikes know Gauze style filters don't filter fine particles very well.

I run the stock paper filter in my Supercharged cars with literally no power loss.


Back on topic, OP, you stated it helped throttle response. Do you mean the lag is reduced from tip-in ?
No sure what is "Tip-In". Throttle response is definitely better in Mid Range. Also, less down shifting from OD. Based on two weeks and butt dyno. Fuel mileage is better for sure.
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:27 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
Thanks for the review.

Just an fyi the afe filter will void your engine warranty. Toyota has rejected a Tacoma I'm aware of with internal damage based on the AFE filter. 3rd pty testing of therm shows that they're bad at filtering dust. Like 99.7 percent effective with oem vs 86 with the AFE. I don't care what you do. Just an fyi.

I've been curious about this. Of course this also voids the engine warranty, so maybe the air filter isn't a big deal.
huh. that is interesting. i've been running the Pro Dry in my TRD CAI for years and while my UOAs show nominal silicon readings i understand you're referring to dust filtration; smaller than silicon?

this is an interesting topic, because i swap out my HEPA cabin filter (which better filters dust and fine particulates) in the fall for a standard paper filter because the blower motor clearly doesn't work as well with the HEPA filter in place. (i'm fine with that, during allergy season.)
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Old 01-21-2018, 11:42 PM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadelson View Post
No sure what is "Tip-In". Throttle response is definitely better in Mid Range. Also, less down shifting from OD. Based on two weeks and butt dyno. Fuel mileage is better for sure.
Have you switched octane since installing the calibrator. That alone will give a huge boost whether you have mods or not.
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:41 AM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadelson View Post
Finally warmed up enough to install and wanted to share initial impressions. No Dyno, but based on driving observations and MPG.

1. Very easy to install, basically plug in and go.
2. In preparation, filled my fuel tank and zeroed out all fuel/MPG indicators.
3. Disconnected Ground battery connection overnight.
4. Cleaned AFE Dry Filter (Running a TRD CAI)
5. Install took about 15 minutes. Longest part of install was anchoring wires with zip ties.
6. URD Pre-set settings based on Data for TRD CAI and Borla Cat.

First ride, took it on a 50 mile loop of mixed town and Interstate. Runner settled down in about five minutes from slightly higher idle at 1200 RPM to what is normal. I noted better throttle response and less downshifting from OD on grades. My Winter MPG with Winter fuel generally around 16.5 mixed driving. First fill up was at 18MPG calculated. So far, after a week, very pleased with this addition. As stated, no dyno, but for sure, MPG slightly better and the engine/peddle response is much better. No WOT yet, but downshifting to pass is definitely better.

I have a 17Pro with TRD CAI, AFE Dry Filter and Borla Cat-Back.
What does the URD MAF Sensor Calibrator plug into? The webpage claims there are two versions, one that plugs in and corrects MAF readings, and one that plugs in and corrects RPM.
"We offer two basic URD MAF Sensor Calibrator versions. One is primarily for normally aspirated vehicles that use the signal from the throttle position sensor as the load scale indicator and one with a Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor (MAP Sensor). The unit with the MAP sensor senses the manifold pressure and is primarily for engines that have forced induction."

I can understand scaling the throttle position, but I would be dubious of the MAP version due to our ECU having narrow and wideband O2 sensors to adjust 'trim'.

What sensors did you un-plug/plug with this?
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:59 AM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1jzgte View Post
Have you switched octane since installing the calibrator. That alone will give a huge boost whether you have mods or not.
Aligned with that. Here is Northeast, we have the dreaded winter fuel. That said, run premium.

I can immediately tell the difference if I fuel with regular gas.
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:07 AM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mo_mo View Post
What does the URD MAF Sensor Calibrator plug into? The webpage claims there are two versions, one that plugs in and corrects MAF readings, and one that plugs in and corrects RPM.
"We offer two basic URD MAF Sensor Calibrator versions. One is primarily for normally aspirated vehicles that use the signal from the throttle position sensor as the load scale indicator and one with a Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor (MAP Sensor). The unit with the MAP sensor senses the manifold pressure and is primarily for engines that have forced induction."

I can understand scaling the throttle position, but I would be dubious of the MAP version due to our ECU having narrow and wideband O2 sensors to adjust 'trim'.

What sensors did you un-plug/plug with this?
No Sensors unplugged. This is plug and play into the MAF and Middle cylinder passenger side. You advise URD what mods and they pre-program based on research. Optimizes fuel and timing.

https://www.urdusa.com/urd-maf-senso...unner-v6-4-0l/
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:20 PM #24
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Have you looked at timing advance? My understanding is that on 87 fuel the timing is significantly retarded as a result of knock sensor input. If the MAF sensor adjustment is leaning the fuel mix are you getting timing retard with premium fuel also? Any idea how much and how often?

I assume the MAF tune only changes the performance in open loop operation. Closed loop fuel mix being driven by the o2 sensors. Is that accurate? If not - how does the MAF tune keep the ECU from correcting fuel mix to OEM targets? Is that based on how the %load is calculated as a flow through of the data from the MAF or something else? I seriously don't understand how MAF signal modification in isolation would solve all the other sensor inputs that used for closed loop operation.
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:37 PM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
Have you looked at timing advance? My understanding is that on 87 fuel the timing is significantly retarded as a result of knock sensor input. If the MAF sensor adjustment is leaning the fuel mix are you getting timing retard with premium fuel also? Any idea how much and how often?

I assume the MAF tune only changes the performance in open loop operation. Closed loop fuel mix being driven by the o2 sensors. Is that accurate? If not - how does the MAF tune keep the ECU from correcting fuel mix to OEM targets? Is that based on how the %load is calculated as a flow through of the data from the MAF or something else? I seriously don't understand how MAF signal modification in isolation would solve all the other sensor inputs that used for closed loop operation.
In over my head on your questions. Give Steve Doppler at URD a call. I emailed and he was quick to respond
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Old 01-22-2018, 02:27 PM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
Have you looked at timing advance? My understanding is that on 87 fuel the timing is significantly retarded as a result of knock sensor input. If the MAF sensor adjustment is leaning the fuel mix are you getting timing retard with premium fuel also? Any idea how much and how often?

I assume the MAF tune only changes the performance in open loop operation. Closed loop fuel mix being driven by the o2 sensors. Is that accurate? If not - how does the MAF tune keep the ECU from correcting fuel mix to OEM targets? Is that based on how the %load is calculated as a flow through of the data from the MAF or something else? I seriously don't understand how MAF signal modification in isolation would solve all the other sensor inputs that used for closed loop operation.

Assuming this is just the MAF...

I'm sort of confused about this also (in terms of MPG). In steady states... the fueling is going to adjust to the target 1.0 lambda. It's the transient and WOT open loop stuff where MAF curve adjustment really has impact.

Now the maf is also obviously part of the load calc. So even in closed loop you could tweak it to report a lower load and therefore increase timing.. However, this would be an odd way to go as your fuel trims would get all jacked up....
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Old 01-22-2018, 02:28 PM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
Have you looked at timing advance? My understanding is that on 87 fuel the timing is significantly retarded as a result of knock sensor input. If the MAF sensor adjustment is leaning the fuel mix are you getting timing retard with premium fuel also? Any idea how much and how often?

I assume the MAF tune only changes the performance in open loop operation. Closed loop fuel mix being driven by the o2 sensors. Is that accurate? If not - how does the MAF tune keep the ECU from correcting fuel mix to OEM targets? Is that based on how the %load is calculated as a flow through of the data from the MAF or something else? I seriously don't understand how MAF signal modification in isolation would solve all the other sensor inputs that used for closed loop operation.
my assumption is that this device doesnt do squat... the only thing felt is from the premium fuel that theyre probably recommending.
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Old 01-22-2018, 02:41 PM #28
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the URD MAF Cal is from https://splitsec.com/ it is a PSC-1

I have one, that i haven't had the time to put in yet. But if someone knows something about how this stuff works and can look into it.
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Old 01-22-2018, 02:55 PM #29
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Quote:
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my assumption is that this device doesnt do squat... the only thing felt is from the premium fuel that theyre probably recommending.
It does plenty on heavy throttle "open loop" and transitions. These engines are pretty much 100% run by the MAF. There is not even a MAP sensor. to fall back on

The only mystery to me and many others with these ECUs is how much AFR feedback is used outside of 1.0 lambda targets.... In theory They could be in closed loop constantly, but we just don't know.

It's pretty easy to see your AFR real time with a simple hard wire scanner. I like the ultra gauge. I originally thought my ultragauge was too slow, but then realized you can up the refresh interval and get a pretty decent view of what is going on in terms of fueling.... It's a great investment for multiple reasons.....
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Old 01-22-2018, 04:15 PM #30
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Quote:
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my assumption is that this device doesnt do squat... the only thing felt is from the premium fuel that theyre probably recommending.
I run Premium all the time. Here is what I did.

1. Disconnected (-) terminal for several hours.
2. Installed device
3. Connected battery and took vehicle on long loop drive.

I am seeing better MPG (documented), better pedal response and less downshifting when pulling grades. No WOT yet but that will happen sometime soon. Long road trip planned this weekend so will compare results.

Your call.

Regards

Last edited by Hadelson; 01-22-2018 at 04:18 PM.
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