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Old 03-26-2018, 10:13 PM #16
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The best ICON Stage kit is ...

The parts you listed in various stages do not fit the Toyota 4Runner. Clearly they are for another vehicle.
I just installed an ICON Stage 7 extended travel lift with all tubular parts. I got the ICON tubular UCA with the Delta Joint. It's more than you need for not driving off road, which I think you said you're not doing in another post. I got 3" of lift and it lead to many more expenses in related tools, supplies, parts and accessories. Accessories like RCI skid plates and a remote oil filter adapter. Unrelated to the lift but once I got started I just couldn't stop. Reading this forum will lead you to a lot of expensive upgrades.

For any lift kit, the upper rear trailing arm is not necessary. If you look at the Toyota OEM you'll see it is a narrow rod, not a tube shape. That means it was designed for tension only, not compression, and is probably more than adequate.
The adjustable reservoirs are nice in theory but I didn't change them for some fairly easy off roading last weekend.

Chose the system that fits your budget and your driving needs. Look at other systems and compare cost to benefit. Do you need a lift for larger tires? What kind of off roading are you doing now? Until you can answer these questions, don't invest in any system.
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Old 03-26-2018, 11:37 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertCanyons View Post
The parts you listed in various stages do not fit the Toyota 4Runner. Clearly they are for another vehicle.
I just installed an ICON Stage 7 extended travel lift with all tubular parts. I got the ICON tubular UCA with the Delta Joint. It's more than you need for not driving off road, which I think you said you're not doing in another post. I got 3" of lift and it lead to many more expenses in related tools, supplies, parts and accessories. Accessories like RCI skid plates and a remote oil filter adapter. Unrelated to the lift but once I got started I just couldn't stop. Reading this forum will lead you to a lot of expensive upgrades.

For any lift kit, the upper rear trailing arm is not necessary. If you look at the Toyota OEM you'll see it is a narrow rod, not a tube shape. That means it was designed for tension only, not compression, and is probably more than adequate.
The adjustable reservoirs are nice in theory but I didn't change them for some fairly easy off roading last weekend.

Chose the system that fits your budget and your driving needs. Look at other systems and compare cost to benefit. Do you need a lift for larger tires? What kind of off roading are you doing now? Until you can answer these questions, don't invest in any system.


Thank you for your input,Dave!

The main reason I want to get a lift kit is actually for enhancing the appearance and better performance on gravels and trails as I like to explore on trails on weekends.
I don’t know if that is considered as “off roading” to gurus like you ,but I really want to “do the things right the first time”,so I won’t need to invest in more advanced kits in the future(please correct me if my mindset is incorrect).

I’ve also seen other popular brands like toytec,OME and dobinson ,but I’m not sure about their performance on pavements and highway compared with King and Icon which is what I care about the most.


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Old 03-27-2018, 08:13 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGainzz View Post
Thank you for your input,Dave!

The main reason I want to get a lift kit is actually for enhancing the appearance and better performance on gravels and trails as I like to explore on trails on weekends.
I don’t know if that is considered as “off roading” to gurus like you ,but I really want to “do the things right the first time”,so I won’t need to invest in more advanced kits in the future(please correct me if my mindset is incorrect).

I’ve also seen other popular brands like toytec,OME and dobinson ,but I’m not sure about their performance on pavements and highway compared with King and Icon which is what I care about the most.


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For what you are doing, better tires like the Cooper ATP (or similar) and some skid plates will go a LOOOOOoooong way. I did the FJ Summit with just slider and a wheel/tire package. the 20 inch alloys are not what you want to play off pavement with that much.

Your truck "as-is" is more capable than you or I are. so that said, Switching to a Dobinson, or OME shocks/coils will do just what you need. If you are not looking for larger tires and more articulation, thats all you need. You already have 9 inches of ground clearance. bumping it up to nearly 12 adds little to nothing if you are just going gravel ranch and forrest roads. and even the odd "trail" with some boulders or trunks will not be an issue. Skids and sliders buy you much more in that case.

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Old 03-27-2018, 09:03 PM #19
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Ok, so an OME or Bilstein lift and very slightly larger tires like 285s actually gains you what performance off road? 1/2" more ground clearance under the axle?

What about the King, Icon, and Fox coilovers for slow paced four wheeling? I totally understand the desert racing type use but what about regular old wheelin'?

Maybe I'll be lucky enough for a @1engineer reply.
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Old 03-28-2018, 02:07 AM #20
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Reasons to lift or not to lift

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGainzz View Post
Thank you for your input,Dave!

The main reason I want to get a lift kit is actually for enhancing the appearance and better performance on gravels and trails as I like to explore on trails on weekends.
I don’t know if that is considered as “off roading” to gurus like you ,but I really want to “do the things right the first time”,so I won’t need to invest in more advanced kits in the future(please correct me if my mindset is incorrect).
I don't think a lift enhances the appearance, except for making your truck the baddest, tallest T4R on the street. You need a performance or clearance issue to want to spend the money for a lift. And a lift does not improve highway and street driving, it makes it more difficult due to a higher center of gravity. It can decrease gas mileage too. The original equipment is the best value for street and highway driving.

And as long as you have that low hanging, Limited body trim and those running boards, your not going to have a lot of ground clearance because your approach, break over and departure angles are lower than a newer SR5, TRD Offroad or TRD Pro.

Are you hitting the skid plates on rocks on the trails you're driving? Do you need bigger tires to get the differential off the ground another inch for more clearance? If these are big issues on the roads you're driving then a lift will improve your off-road performance.

The tires make the biggest gain in ground clearance due to the low point being the differential. For bigger tires like 285/70 17 you need a lift to clear the tires. But probably not for 275/70 17.

Do you drive fairly well graded dirt and gravel roads. If so you don't need a lift for that. I drove my stock T4R Trail Edition for two years into some really tough rocky areas and only scraped the skid plates a few times. It took me about 7 days to install the Stage 7 lift and do it right, working on my garage floor by myself.
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Old 03-28-2018, 07:28 AM #21
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This is a serious question - what does your Icon stage 7 do that a 3" OME doesn't for normal slow speed off roading? I'm assuming it offers much more articulation and rides better on the street.

I ask because this thread is a great example of where a lot of dudes are with these things thanks to the forums and Instagram. We know Kings, Icon, and Fox are awesome.... but not quite sure what all that money gets you.

Is there a break point where a lift and tire size on a 5th Gen is actually significantly more capable off road? It would seem the dollars spent on a 2.5"/1.5" lift and 275s don't really buy much other than looking awesome. Maybe 3" and 285s helps a lot?
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Old 03-28-2018, 04:09 PM #22
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Bennefits of taller tires

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Originally Posted by Throwback View Post
This is a serious question - what does your Icon stage 7 do that a 3" OME doesn't for normal slow speed off roading? I'm assuming it offers much more articulation and rides better on the street.

I ask because this thread is a great example of where a lot of dudes are with these things thanks to the forums and Instagram. We know Kings, Icon, and Fox are awesome.... but not quite sure what all that money gets you.

Is there a break point where a lift and tire size on a 5th Gen is actually significantly more capable off road? It would seem the dollars spent on a 2.5"/1.5" lift and 275s don't really buy much other than looking awesome. Maybe 3" and 285s helps a lot?
The ICON and King shocks offer adjustable remote reservoirs, which could be very helpful in rugged rocky slow off road driving. It could reduce bounce in the suspension as you climb or drop over obstacles.

I don't know if I get more articulation on pavement with the ICON Stage 7 lift. I do have 2.5" remote reservoir shocks which may perform better than 2" emulsion shocks. The system is new to me and I'm still learning what it's good for. And I don't drive fast on the streets so I don't see much benefit in better street performance. It's a tall SUV, after all. The stock tires are better for city and highway driving, IMHO.

With Falken LT285/70R17 A/T3W I got more ground clearance under the differential for off roading. Before the lift I actually got the diff stuck between two rocks out in Calico, CA this past fall. I had to jack it up and place more rocks under the wheels to get out.

The lift won't help clear a differential but larger tires will lift the diff. You need the lift for 285/70 tires.

Like I said, the lift has only been on the truck for a month and I've done one fairly easy off road adventure with it installed. I could have done that run stock, without a lift, but it was good to know I wasn't go to scrape the skid plates on every high rock in the road.

If anyone has other views on tires and the ICON or King lift, please chime in.
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Old 03-29-2018, 09:56 PM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throwback View Post
Ok, so an OME or Bilstein lift and very slightly larger tires like 285s actually gains you what performance off road? 1/2" more ground clearance under the axle?

What about the King, Icon, and Fox coilovers for slow paced four wheeling? I totally understand the desert racing type use but what about regular old wheelin'?

Maybe I'll be lucky enough for a @1engineer reply.
You guys know the truth: A stock 4Runner, with the addition of decent tires, is at it's most reliable and durable it can be. Also, it is at the best configuration for a wide variety of uses. That means, road then trail then snow then interatate, etc.

Now, if you want to improve for a specific application like off roading (real, not dirt roads) or rock crawling, then there are great mods that will improve that specific use. Unfortunately, the mods done to improve a specific use will cause other uses to suffer. Examples:
Lift for increased off road clearance, raises the CG and conversely less stable on road corners.

Remember ANY weight added will reduce mpg. Worst offender is heavier tires or wheels.

Now, if you want to lift for looks only? That's fine btw, just use a spacer lift. Cheap and all the admirers won't know anything different.

Last thing to remember: If you don't really have the need for Kings or Icons and you just want them because they are cool, remember those are high dollar and will need to be rebuilt fairly frequently depending on use and environment. That means taking them off and sending them back for rebuild, which means having your truck up on jacks for a few weeks..

Those who mod for serious off road know all this. They know the advantages and limitations of their mods. This is not for them.

Remember that the 4Runner stock is going to go further than most people's courage will take them. Also, a oro driver can take a stock truck faster tand further than an amateur can take a highly modded truck.

My opinion? Leave it stock, go take some off road driving courses and mod after learning what you really need.
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Old 03-29-2018, 10:06 PM #24
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I don't see this mentioned here on this forum a lot but I have read that Icon is hit or miss on their quality control. It seems you either have no issues or you have constant issues. I read about this on Expedition Portal. For instance a guy with a Tacoma has had to rebuild a shock or several in less than a year cuz they have blown. He has had issues since day one with Icon and he says others do also. But here on this forum I don't see that happening much unless people are just not talking about it.
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Old 03-29-2018, 10:32 PM #25
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I have an 4th gen with Icons 2.5 with remote reservoir w/cdc valves front and rear, upper Icon tubular arms, and Icon tubular rear lower links. It drives great and I don't run swaybars either.

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Old 03-29-2018, 11:27 PM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyT4R View Post
I don't see this mentioned here on this forum a lot but I have read that Icon is hit or miss on their quality control. It seems you either have no issues or you have constant issues. I read about this on Expedition Portal. For instance a guy with a Tacoma has had to rebuild a shock or several in less than a year cuz they have blown. He has had issues since day one with Icon and he says others do also. But here on this forum I don't see that happening much unless people are just not talking about it.
Well, I am one of the guys that had shit luck with Icon.

My first set of coil overs both leaked within 2000 miles with mild to moderate off- roading. I opted to buy a replacement set and have the leaky ones rebuilt and are on the shelf to be swapped out when the current pair shit the bed. The replacement set have been perfect for over 10K now.

I had Icon tubular UCA that right out of the gate sounded like a donkey in heat over speed bumps and when coming to a stop. Icon ended up sending me a new pair free of charge.

The moral to my little story (to the OP) is that ALL brands have issues from time to time and if I were to do it again I'd still go Icon. They run really nice on the road and off. I am slumming it with Icon Stage 2 and do not need any thing more. My advice to the OP is that IF you do decide to lift go with adjustable coil overs. Doesn't need to be Icon, but having the ability to fine tune front end ride height is priceless. Take it from a guy that went the spacer route (Toytec TRD 2 inch lift) to start with and chucked it.

I will add that 1engineer is correct that the ride and reliability (not to mention value) will never be better than it is stock.

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Old 03-29-2018, 11:37 PM #27
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ICON shock wear and rebuilding them

Good points raised above by @1engineer
I was making some of the same points in my posts above about Mr Gainzz Limited Edition.
However, I've had my ICON shocks on for maybe 30 to 40 days and nothings failed yet.
I also added some extra protection to the shocks to guard against dirt and wear, like adding steel shin guards and rubber shock boots to the lower piston rod thingy on the rear shocks. I understand the seals can fail due to dirt and debris on that sliding rod.
I've heard about regular maintenance with the ICON and King shocks. I've read @Antman 's and other threads about rebuilding the ICON shocks. I just figure that if mine fail at the seals I'll have to rebuild them myself. Not having the truck for many weeks due to shipping times is not a good option for me. Of course, ICON is about an hour from me in Riverside, CA.
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Old 03-30-2018, 12:06 AM #28
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Quote:
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Good points raised above by @1engineer
I was making some of the same points in my posts above about Mr Gainzz Limited Edition.
However, I've had my ICON shocks on for maybe 30 to 40 days and nothings failed yet.
I also added some extra protection to the shocks to guard against dirt and wear, like adding steel shin guards and rubber shock boots to the lower piston rod thingy on the rear shocks. I understand the seals can fail due to dirt and debris on that sliding rod.
I've heard about regular maintenance with the ICON and King shocks. I've read @Antman 's and other threads about rebuilding the ICON shocks. I just figure that if mine fail at the seals I'll have to rebuild them myself. Not having the truck for many weeks due to shipping times is not a good option for me. Of course, ICON is about an hour from me in Riverside, CA.
Icon is close and that is good. You will need specific tools to disassemble. Dirt is one thing... heat from repeated cycling is another. They are good quality shocks built for high performance, but like everything built for performance, they need much more maintenance. Good luck and enjoy!
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Old 03-30-2018, 04:12 PM #29
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Thanks all for your input. This prevented me from pulling the trigger on shocks since I am still new to off roading. I will wait until I'm deeper in it to buy new suspension.
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Old 03-30-2018, 04:49 PM #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1engineer View Post
You guys know the truth: A stock 4Runner, with the addition of decent tires, is at it's most reliable and durable it can be. Also, it is at the best configuration for a wide variety of uses. That means, road then trail then snow then interatate, etc.

Now, if you want to improve for a specific application like off roading (real, not dirt roads) or rock crawling, then there are great mods that will improve that specific use. Unfortunately, the mods done to improve a specific use will cause other uses to suffer. Examples:
Lift for increased off road clearance, raises the CG and conversely less stable on road corners.

Remember ANY weight added will reduce mpg. Worst offender is heavier tires or wheels.

Now, if you want to lift for looks only? That's fine btw, just use a spacer lift. Cheap and all the admirers won't know anything different.

Last thing to remember: If you don't really have the need for Kings or Icons and you just want them because they are cool, remember those are high dollar and will need to be rebuilt fairly frequently depending on use and environment. That means taking them off and sending them back for rebuild, which means having your truck up on jacks for a few weeks..

Those who mod for serious off road know all this. They know the advantages and limitations of their mods. This is not for them.

Remember that the 4Runner stock is going to go further than most people's courage will take them. Also, a oro driver can take a stock truck faster tand further than an amateur can take a highly modded truck.

My opinion? Leave it stock, go take some off road driving courses and mod after learning what you really need.
Great post! 265 KM2's or similar will do what I need for now. Pack some recovery gear, air pump, tire repair kit, appropriate emergency kit, and a HAM radio and I'll enjoy exploring the many trails in my area, and the occasional campout or hunt. And all of it with a group of friends is even better. More substantial changes will happen as situations warrant.
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