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Old 01-01-2019, 11:59 PM #16
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Originally Posted by bigredrage View Post
3" might be all I do, maybe 4 with long travel? I imagine the KDSS probably isnt worth what it would cost to dd in vs just having disconnecting sway bars. I'm not a fan of acceleration or deacceleration assistance in vehicles and kdss seems somewhat similar...
You may already know this, and I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly but KDSS is a speed-controlled hydraulic "swaybar" that loosens allowing freer wheel travel under 12mph but tightens (restricting body roll) over 12mph. This is the mechanism of improved handling on-road while still maintaining off-road wheel travel. It's not an acceleration or de-acceleration assistant of any kind.

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the only thing that would intrigue me is the "better 4wd system" but I am imagining the sr5 is more than capable.
Again you probably already know this but the Limited isn't a "better" 4wd, just different in that it has a center diff (full time 4wd) vs the other trims part-time engagement system. The Limited is the only 4R trim with the X-REAS system, which would definitely complicate your plan for a suspension lift. Most regularly offroaded Limiteds (and there are quite a few great examples) I see around here have removed the system entirely.

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Originally Posted by bigredrage View Post
To everyone: if I buy it stock and do all the modifactions outside of the dealer, does that dealer then become a problem with warranties?
The Magnuson-Moss Act prevents companies from refusing to honor warranty work unless they can prove that your aftermarket parts caused the damage. I suspect that the dealer, depending on their outlook, could still make life very difficult for you if they weren't off-road friendly. Buyer beware on that one.

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Originally Posted by bigredrage View Post
I feel like if I do the lift at the dealer, I am getting shafted and taking advise from salesmen who do not offroad and thats the last thing I want to do... they are just too full of shit and will give incorrect information instead of admitting they dont know something.
My own experience has been that there is more true information and applicable knowledge on this forum than I ever got from the Toyota salesman, but they don't care about the things we care about, so no surprise there really. They just want to sell a Camry or a Prius, or hell even a 4Runner. I wouldn't personally want to do the lift at the dealer unless you find one that's reputable and experienced with aftermarket installations and even then they're going to be exponentially more expensive. You're in Mesa, have you spoken with Sonoran Steel or ADS?

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Originally Posted by bigredrage View Post
If I do my own lift there or elsewhere and there is no kdss, do you just have sway bars? The front is not a solid axle so I dont know how that works, I imagine the rear would have a sway bar but when i look up electronic disconnect sway bars or quick disconnects for 4 runner sway bars they dont seem to exist? I cant imagine people offroad these things with sway bars on all the time?
There are swaybar quick disconnects out there but none for KDSS that I'm aware of, it'd take some fundamental modifications to the system to get those two to play together nice, so I'd imagine that's more trouble than it's worth but maybe someone with more experience with the disconnects can chime in there. If you go with no KDSS trim (SR5), then yes it's regular old swaybars, springs, and shocks.

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Originally Posted by bigredrage View Post
So a lift, even with control arms should be 3k max with installation, probably less. I could sell the stock rims and tires for the price of tires, say $750 or a little more. New rims and tires would probably run me like $1300 so 3500 max so far. Possibly add in a few hundred for a roof rack and 500 for a locker installed and I think id be in motion. even if that put me at 4k, an sr5 premium with all of it would likely be under 45000 with taxes and etc from the purchase.
I don't think your budget is too far off, but it depends on what you want from the lift and how fast you want to get it all done. If you're going non-rebuildable (Bilstein 5100 / Eibach / Dobinsons / OME) then the shocks and springs will cost you around $800 + installation. If you need rebuildable / resi / bypass, you're talking at least $1800 + installation and the resi / bypass shocks get up around $3k list very quickly. $500 is a good range for UCAs, which you'll likely need at 3" up front. The roof rack will set you back around a grand by the time it's all over from what I've seen. The ARB locker will run you around a grand list, before installation. I do think you'll be running a beast of an SR5 if you're planning on 10k for mods, which it sounds like that's what you're planning on.

Still think you should do more research and reading HERE and definitely test drive the KDSS before you decide. The OR trim might be your best go out the gate if you want a locker and the OEM OR wheels will mount 285s. Good luck man.
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Old 01-02-2019, 01:22 AM #17
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Originally Posted by CF_Machete View Post
With the amount that you can put into an SR5 with 3rd row, Perhaps an Icon stage 2 would be a good lift option. easy enough to do yourself. Usually you will only void warranties of parts you modify with dealers... so I wouldn't worry about that.

The rims usually go for $300-$350, though most people post them for $400. I sold my for $350 a few years ago with lugs locally and the tires wen to a fried for $200 with 25K on them. a dealer might upgrade your tires right out of the gate and if they take sticker price for your stock tires, thats the way to go; and don't for get the spare. Same for the rims if you want toyota rims... like the black pro's.

If you get an ARB air locker for the rear, get it installed at an ARB certified installer. There are some seals with in the Locker that can fail and ARB is pretty good with covering parts and service. In the cases I've read about, the locker still engages, but your compressor runs constantly until the repairs are made.

There are manual disconnects available for the 5th gens, but I'd try it on some trails first to see if you find them necessary... every vehicle is different.
"Usually you will only void warranties of parts you modify with dealers" I dont quite understand what this comment meant.

My jeep is only front locked so its a permanent lock but the air locker sounds like the right add on for a rear.
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Old 01-02-2019, 01:36 AM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo View Post
You may already know this, and I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly but KDSS is a speed-controlled hydraulic "swaybar" that loosens allowing freer wheel travel under 12mph but tightens (restricting body roll) over 12mph. This is the mechanism of improved handling on-road while still maintaining off-road wheel travel. It's not an acceleration or de-acceleration assistant of any kind.



Again you probably already know this but the Limited isn't a "better" 4wd, just different in that it has a center diff (full time 4wd) vs the other trims part-time engagement system. The Limited is the only 4R trim with the X-REAS system, which would definitely complicate your plan for a suspension lift. Most regularly offroaded Limiteds (and there are quite a few great examples) I see around here have removed the system entirely.



The Magnuson-Moss Act prevents companies from refusing to honor warranty work unless they can prove that your aftermarket parts caused the damage. I suspect that the dealer, depending on their outlook, could still make life very difficult for you if they weren't off-road friendly. Buyer beware on that one.



My own experience has been that there is more true information and applicable knowledge on this forum than I ever got from the Toyota salesman, but they don't care about the things we care about, so no surprise there really. They just want to sell a Camry or a Prius, or hell even a 4Runner. I wouldn't personally want to do the lift at the dealer unless you find one that's reputable and experienced with aftermarket installations and even then they're going to be exponentially more expensive. You're in Mesa, have you spoken with Sonoran Steel or ADS?



There are swaybar quick disconnects out there but none for KDSS that I'm aware of, it'd take some fundamental modifications to the system to get those two to play together nice, so I'd imagine that's more trouble than it's worth but maybe someone with more experience with the disconnects can chime in there. If you go with no KDSS trim (SR5), then yes it's regular old swaybars, springs, and shocks.



I don't think your budget is too far off, but it depends on what you want from the lift and how fast you want to get it all done. If you're going non-rebuildable (Bilstein 5100 / Eibach / Dobinsons / OME) then the shocks and springs will cost you around $800 + installation. If you need rebuildable / resi / bypass, you're talking at least $1800 + installation and the resi / bypass shocks get up around $3k list very quickly. $500 is a good range for UCAs, which you'll likely need at 3" up front. The roof rack will set you back around a grand by the time it's all over from what I've seen. The ARB locker will run you around a grand list, before installation. I do think you'll be running a beast of an SR5 if you're planning on 10k for mods, which it sounds like that's what you're planning on.

Still think you should do more research and reading HERE and definitely test drive the KDSS before you decide. The OR trim might be your best go out the gate if you want a locker and the OEM OR wheels will mount 285s. Good luck man.
that first post is the best kdss explanation I have read, ever. Thanks. So essentially when going under 12mph you dont have a sway bar (to a degree) but over 12mph you do? Thats interesting.

I didnt know what the XREAS system was all about as i never bothered looking at the limited but that makes sense. My offroad knowledge is almost extensively straight axle vehicles so these differential options are new to me. So, instead of a center diff, I only have a rear diff in an sr5? does the front have no power at all, is just supporting cast wheels?

interesting on the warranty. I actually remember reading something like that.

I havent spoken to shops about lifts and etc yet but I do know some people at knuckle busters and 4 wheel parts for when the time comes.

A no KDSS sr5 is likely, thats odd that i didnt find quick disconnects if it does have front swaybars.

what are UCA's? you mention 3" up front so I assume springs. or shocks? I would do a lift like the bilsteins. I'm thinking more like 5k in upgrades but it should still be a beast. A friend brought a stock one down a trail that i told her was unlikely and she ended up showing up at my campsite so I know with a good lift, tires and etc it should be awesome. I dont think the OR or TRD trims are going to fly for me, I want that third row even though itll have limited use. If I am going to drive it for ten years, that option is going to be necessary. if the kdss system isnt on sr5, I;m just not going to bother with it. Ill get quick disconnects or something and just disconnect them when i am on a trail. Im used to that anyway.

The roof rack on that jeep in the photos was custom made by a guy on the national guard station who does welding for their apaches and whatnot. I think i paid $300 said and done. I dont know if it will port to this due to width but if not i bet i can get a decent deal out of him for a rack.
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Old 01-02-2019, 01:36 AM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CF_Machete View Post
With the amount that you can put into an SR5 with 3rd row, Perhaps an Icon stage 2 would be a good lift option. easy enough to do yourself. Usually you will only void warranties of parts you modify with dealers... so I wouldn't worry about that.

The rims usually go for $300-$350, though most people post them for $400. I sold my for $350 a few years ago with lugs locally and the tires wen to a fried for $200 with 25K on them. a dealer might upgrade your tires right out of the gate and if they take sticker price for your stock tires, thats the way to go; and don't for get the spare. Same for the rims if you want toyota rims... like the black pro's.

If you get an ARB air locker for the rear, get it installed at an ARB certified installer. There are some seals with in the Locker that can fail and ARB is pretty good with covering parts and service. In the cases I've read about, the locker still engages, but your compressor runs constantly until the repairs are made.

There are manual disconnects available for the 5th gens, but I'd try it on some trails first to see if you find them necessary... every vehicle is different.
a 33" spare will fit where the stock spare is?
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Old 01-02-2019, 08:18 AM #20
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Originally Posted by bigredrage View Post
"Usually you will only void warranties of parts you modify with dealers" I dont quite understand what this comment meant.

My jeep is only front locked so its a permanent lock but the air locker sounds like the right add on for a rear.
So if you lift your truck and your cv joints go prematurely, thats on you. Same with wheel spacers, if your wheel bearings go prematurely, agian on you. I have both and although I'm putting extra wear and tear on my stock parts, they're not going anytime soon.

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a 33" spare will fit where the stock spare is?
Yup, I have 285 / 70 / 17 general grabber at2s and a bfg ko2 in the same size in my stock spare location.
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Old 01-02-2019, 09:21 AM #21
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I typically buy with cash, this would be my first "new" vehicle, no way in hell would I get an 80,000 one nor would I offroad an 80,000 truck. I bought a land rover once for 8k thinking I got this awesome deal and then every little problem it had it went into limp mode until I deposited $2,000 into it. Never make that mistake again.
sorry, i wasn’t suggesting you buy brand new. just thinking a lightly used LC will do most everything you need out of the box while offering a stout and capable platform (Torsen center diff, rear locker, and KDSS are standard equipment) on which to build for many years. and it’s a used Land Cruiser — not a Rover... world's apart.

the thing that really stick out for me in your scenario is your need for 5+ seating... i’m afraid you’re going to find that’s just gonna suck in a 4Runner.
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Old 01-02-2019, 03:46 PM #22
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I'm 6'5 so headroom matters. Legroom is tight vs my truck too but that's how these and my Cherokee are.

The pro I rented has a sun roof and with my seat completely down, my hair doesn't touch the roof so it should be fine I think
I'm 6'7", and have an SR5 Premium with the sunroof. My head only touches the ceiling if I sit up very straight. I'm more of a "lean an elbow on the center console" kind of guy, so no issues for me.
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