I was about to concede the point since I only rent cars a few times a year, usually in the summer... But I just went out to my wife's '18 Honda Pilot Elite with it's puky giant touchscreen based dash console, and low & behold even that user interface nightmare lets you select defrost and recirc at the same time. Even on the high setting (gasp!). So no, I don't agree. This is simply a bad user interface choice by a marketing or PM shmuck at Toyota who thinks its cool for a car to "think" for you. Even if the thinking is really bad.

And I'll test my 4wd again, but am pretty sure that when I tested it a couple years ago it wouldn't go into 4wd if the check engine light was on - even for a *totally unrelated* issue. And yes, that made me always carry a code scanner in the vehicle - but you can't really believe that's a good solution for the average suburbanite do you? That one is beyond the marketing dept and is simply bad engineering design. Failure modes should ALWAYS be isolated to just the affected systems. Again, it's not like it's a hard software problem.

And yes, I'm just one consumer - but a thoughtful and discriminating one dead in the middle of Toyota's target demographic...

My old tacoma had this going back to 1997 , fresh air and ac kicks on with the defrost, which will suck out that moisture=no fogging up windshield,and a twenty degree drop with highs of -20 degrees celsius coming where I live.Love the north!

Does the pilot automatically turn on the A/C when defrost is selected? If car manufacturers went with your philosophy, then they would leave the A/C in the last selected mode and let those pesky drivers smarten up on their own... read the manual and all that jazz.

I only had an engine code once at about 2000 miles, no fault found and cleared by the dealer with no hiccups in the next 7xk+ miles. I intentionally put it into 4wd, by the lever, and I recall the drivetrain bound up and the 4wd icon wasn't flashing (lots of other lights were flashing), but I could be wrong. I'm not planning on pulling a fuse to check it.

I use recirc/defrost/AC/heater all the time in my VW. It’s actualy listed in their “tips” for faster defrost and intentionally allowed.

Weird that the 4Runner won’t even allow the recirc to stay on during normal use, ill have to double check that.

I think this is what other manufacturers call "DE-ICE" mode. I was told.....the A/C pulls the moisture out of the air, getting at the 'dry' air you need.

I could swear mine makes a small beep, either way, I'm glad to hear it works for you as well.

4Runner is in the shop today for the airbag recall so I had to drive my wife's new Pilot. The ventilation controls work exactly as you'd expect: turn on defrost (any speed), then you can add recirc or A/C, or both, your option. It does exactly what you expect it to do based on your inputs, not something different like preventing recirc on some settings, or shutting it off on it's own.

So while the giant touch screen interface on the Pilot is truly atrociously abysmal (certainly expect better for >$50k) Honda got the function tree right on the air controls while Toyota got it very wrong. And that bad decision isn't common across all manufacturers, or even the next largest Japanese manufacturer.

And not to beat a dead horse but shutting off unrelated functionality when there's a problem is just bad design. No justification (i.e. it doesn't happen very often) can change that fact. Having to carry a code reader and knowing how to use it is a kludgey workaround that most owners wouldn't be capable of.

Will either of these issues prevent me from buying another Toyota? Not individually, but a list of 15 taken together, maybe - and my list of annoyances with the 5th gen is at least that long now. Hopefully someone at Toyota reads these forums and takes constructive criticism seriously.

Oh, and the Pilot also still has a separate heater core for the rear seats, just like the 3rd gen 4runner did. Another thing us longtime 4runer owners used to have and now don't. Like I said, I hope someone at Toyota is listening.

I was under the impression that you can't recirc on defrost because the defrost becomes the intake for the air. I could be wrong though.

I live in Michigan. All of the heating in all of my Toyota's have always been sufficient. If its slow to heat, you may be low on Anti-Freeze(coolant). Only use Toyota Brand coolant. It is bright pink and cannot be mixed with anything else. Their coolant is made for 100k miles of service before requiring a flush.

If you are in the cold climate and you recirculate the air using the heater, your windows will always be fogged up unless you turn on the defroster in which case the air conditioner compressor evaporates the humidity in the car....but you have your air cond working in the winter. In modern Toyotas, the defroster function automatically activates the AC compressor.

The ideal condition is to use fresh air from outside, flowing over your heater core to heat the inside of your vehicle.

[It is recommended that you turn on the air cond compressor once a month for 15 mins even in the winter to keep parts lubricated] In 16 years, my 3rd Gen never required AC work or a coolant recharge. NEVER. The last time we had a Toyota AC stop working was in my 1985 Celica Supra at 241K.

So, recirc turned off when it's humid inside the car makes sense, but how about those of us who live in very humid climates like Oregon in the winter? The air in the car is humid, so is the air outside the car, especially when it's raining. My last rig, a Nissan Xterra, let me leave the recirc on all the time. I never turned it off and never had an issue with fogging windows.

I too live where the humidity is perpetually 95% and have never felt the need to use recirc to keep the windows clear during the winter on any of my cars. Defrost usually works well on its own, but it also helps to turn on A/C - especially when the engine isn't at operating temp.

I'm guessing that the primary goal is to raise the glass surface temperature above the dew point of the interior. Lowering the dew point of the interior (with A/C) is probably secondary and with breathing sweaty bodies in the vehicle fighting against this, recirc probably only helps speed up the first part - warming the surface of the glass before the engine is up to temp and can provide pretty limitless heat. This is probably why there's a timer.

For what it's worth, there's growing concern over CO2 levels of vehicle interiors and how it affects drivers (e.g. drowsiness). Premium vehicles are now coming with air quality monitors, but others could very well limit how much time recirc is on.

I read on another thread if you hold the recirc button down for 5 seconds it will stay on. I don't know if that was just for limiteds or not?

Totally agree and because my 4th gen allows both recirc and defrost I am perplexed as to why Toyota doesn't allow it on the 5th gen. I wonder if there is an option via Techstream to change it?


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@nglayton Thanks for the tip... works like a charm on my 2011.