[ToolUser1]

So it's getting cold again in the NE. When it gets cold I turn the heat on ('11 Trail). The heat doesn't work very well, so I have to turn on recirc to get the temp up quicker. There are two maddening problems with this:

1) you can't use recirc and defrost at the same time???
2) recirc automatically shuts off after less than 3 minutes???

I purposely got the model with the least electronics in an attempt to avoid &$^% like this. When I tell my car to do something I just want it to freaking do it, not do something totally different.

I doubt there's a solution to this, so I guess this is just a rant. My apologies but venting did make me feel microscopically better...

[jhguth]

Defrost with recirc doesnt work, you need dry air

Recirc shouldn't turn off after 3 minutes though

[nglayton]

Originally Posted by ToolUser1

So it's getting cold again in the NE. When it gets cold I turn the heat on ('11 Trail). The heat doesn't work very well, so I have to turn on recirc to get the temp up quicker. There are two maddening problems with this:

1) you can't use recirc and defrost at the same time???
2) recirc automatically shuts off after less than 3 minutes???

I purposely got the model with the least electronics in an attempt to avoid &$^% like this. When I tell my car to do something I just want it to freaking do it, not do something totally different.

I doubt there's a solution to this, so I guess this is just a rant. My apologies but venting did make me feel microscopically better...

Press and hold the recirc button until you hear it beep. Can't remember how long it takes, maybe 30 seconds? It will stay on until you turn off the ignition.

[ToolUser1]

Originally Posted by jhguth

Defrost with recirc doesnt work, you need dry air

Recirc shouldn't turn off after 3 minutes though

That's true sometimes, but not if it's -11. At that point the air is bone dry and running on recirc is super helpful. If the windows start fogging I can turn recirc off but up until that point it's helping me, and getting to that point when it's -11 takes way longer than 3 minutes.

But the larger point is that the freaking car should do what you tell it to and not try to apply a blanket rule to an unpredictably large problem set (>million owners at this point?). If I want recirc and defrost on at the same time there's a reason. If I set the controls to recirc and defrost, that's what it should do.

[ToolUser1]

Originally Posted by nglayton

Press and hold the recirc button until you hear it beep. Can't remember how long it takes, maybe 30 seconds? It will stay on until you turn off the ignition.

I tried pushing it twice, that didn't work. I tried holding it for 3-4 seconds, that didn't work. I'll try holding it longer and see what happens. If it works I'll owe you a virtual beer!

It's +11 right now and I have to go out in a couple hours. I'll give it a shot.

Thanks!!

[JpAdct]

I know it sounds backwards and wasteful, but I run heat with the AC on a lot during the winter. It allows me to keep it on recirculate and prevents fogging up. It also helps to keep the fumes out.


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[mo_mo]

Originally Posted by ToolUser1

But the larger point is that the freaking car should do what you tell it to and not try to apply a blanket rule to an unpredictably large problem set (>million owners at this point?).

So the vehicle should let you shift into 1st gear while doing 90 mph on the highway? Not going to happen. Let's pretend that Toyota did let the recirculation continue to run. The number of complaints they would get from customers saying their vehicles are prone to fogging up would be astronomical. Get used to the baby proofing of society.

[kjbenner]

Originally Posted by ToolUser1

1) you can't use recirc and defrost at the same time???

You can't, but I think if you choose the position that's halfway between "feet only" and "feet/defrost" you can use recirc, and it'll still put some hot air on the windshield.

[ToolUser1]

Originally Posted by mo_mo

So the vehicle should let you shift into 1st gear while doing 90 mph on the highway? Not going to happen. Let's pretend that Toyota did let the recirculation continue to run. The number of complaints they would get from customers saying their vehicles are prone to fogging up would be astronomical. Get used to the baby proofing of society.

So lets go back to my sadly missed third gen, and every other pre-2005 toyota/lexus vehicle I've ever owned (>10 I think at this point) Most had a simple mechanical lever to switch between fresh air and recirculate + a selector button/knob for where you wanted the air to come out. In other words they were independent variables, allowing the maximum number of usage combinations. Even when it wasn't mechanical (i.e. Lexus SC300) the two controls were still independent rather than dependent. So you're telling me that prior to 200x Toyota was getting tens of thousands of complaints about recirc causing fogging?

And your 90mph shifting example is too specious to take seriously. The air system controls are simply a really poorly designed user interface that resulted in loss of useful functionality. Same as the 5th gen's cascading failure modes where the truck won't shift into 4wd if the computer is throwing a code from a loose gas cap (i.e. an evap system issue). Really, it's just stupid.

Shifting vehicle controls from mechanical to electronic is fine (cheaper to manufacture) but concurrent loss of functionality shouldn't be acceptable for us as consumers. Otherwise we'll just end up with crappier and crappier and crappier user experiences. And we're talking minor software changes here, so changes are effectively zero cost.

BTW I looked at a Tesla e-brake setup yesterday and it's totally electric - not a single cable involved - an electric servo motor directly actuates the brakes! It also acts as transmission lock, like the "P" in a automatic transmission. Interesting setup.

[LeesO4]

My 2004 lets me keep the recirc on in any setting. I don’t like how the 5th gen won’t let me do the same. I also find it odd that it somehow turns itself off on its own. If I could leave it on forever I would, just like in my 2004. I want to keep the outside air and fumes out of my car.

[mo_mo]

Originally Posted by ToolUser1

So lets go back to my sadly missed third gen, and every other pre-2005 toyota/lexus vehicle I've ever owned (>10 I think at this point) Most had a simple mechanical lever to switch between fresh air and recirculate + a selector button/knob for where you wanted the air to come out. In other words they were independent variables, allowing the maximum number of usage combinations. Even when it wasn't mechanical (i.e. Lexus SC300) the two controls were still independent rather than dependent. So you're telling me that prior to 200x Toyota was getting tens of thousands of complaints about recirc causing fogging?

And your 90mph shifting example is too specious to take seriously. The air system controls are simply a really poorly designed user interface that resulted in loss of useful functionality. Same as the 5th gen's cascading failure modes where the truck won't shift into 4wd if the computer is throwing a code from a loose gas cap (i.e. an evap system issue). Really, it's just stupid.

Shifting vehicle controls from mechanical to electronic is fine (cheaper to manufacture) but concurrent loss of functionality shouldn't be acceptable for us as consumers. Otherwise we'll just end up with crappier and crappier and crappier user experiences. And we're talking minor software changes here, so changes are effectively zero cost.

BTW I looked at a Tesla e-brake setup yesterday and it's totally electric - not a single cable involved - an electric servo motor directly actuates the brakes! It also acts as transmission lock, like the "P" in a automatic transmission. Interesting setup.

I'm not telling you that prior to 200x Toyota received tens of thousands of complaints. I'm telling you that they would receive those complaints today. Go down to the dealership or local rental car agency and take a look at the HVAC systems of the vehicles on the lot. You're going to find that they all behave similar to your 5th gen 4Runner. If Toyota didn't add this feature/bug, then everyone else that is used to having it automated would be ragging on it. Instead they only have you. Therefore they got it right. Now it might be nice if it was a dealer adjustable feature or carista type setting, but you lose.

Also, my 4-wheel drive still works even if there is an engine code. Now A-trac/crawl control/multi-terrain-select will not function, but I still have 4-wheel drive with low range (I'm not sure about the locker under this scenario). Another reason to carry an OBDII reader to reset the system if you are in a bind.

[epjfsa]

Originally Posted by JpAdct

I know it sounds backwards and wasteful, but I run heat with the AC on a lot during the winter. It allows me to keep it on recirculate and prevents fogging up. It also helps to keep the fumes out.


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It's not wasteful, in fact many vehicles automatically switch on AC (whether indicated or not) when in the defrost setting. Heck, our Mini switches AC on (at least indicated) if you just hit the "Auto" button on the HVAC controls.

FYI, the 4runner might have an auxiliary electric heater. Use it if you have it.

PSA for those in cold climates: Aux heater usage

[thennen]

Originally Posted by mo_mo

I'm not telling you that prior to 200x Toyota received tens of thousands of complaints. I'm telling you that they would receive those complaints today. Go down to the dealership or local rental car agency and take a look at the HVAC systems of the vehicles on the lot. You're going to find that they all behave similar to your 5th gen 4Runner. If Toyota didn't add this feature/bug, then everyone else that is used to having it automated would be ragging on it. Instead they only have you. Therefore they got it right. Now it might be nice if it was a dealer adjustable feature or carista type setting, but you lose.

Also, my 4-wheel drive still works even if there is an engine code. Now A-trac/crawl control/multi-terrain-select will not function, but I still have 4-wheel drive with low range (I'm not sure about the locker under this scenario). Another reason to carry an OBDII reader to reset the system if you are in a bind.

Agreed. I think at least some of this is resulting from people becoming more and more accustomed to having their cars think for them. In response, and to reduce complaints, manufacturers automate some settings that receive the most complaints. For instance, I don’t believe most people understand that the A/C compressor is often needed to defog the windows. Cars just do it these days. I’m guessing it’s because leaving that in the operator’s hands produced significantly more complaints. I understand OP’s point - having more control is preferable when you know what you’re doing. But manufacturers have tons of data driving their decisions.

[JpAdct]

Originally Posted by epjfsa

It's not wasteful, in fact many vehicles automatically switch on AC (whether indicated or not) when in the defrost setting. Heck, our Mini switches AC on (at least indicated) if you just hit the "Auto" button on the HVAC controls.

FYI, the 4runner might have an auxiliary electric heater. Use it if you have it.

PSA for those in cold climates: Aux heater usage

That’s awesome! Thanks


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[ToolUser1]

Originally Posted by ToolUser1

I tried pushing it twice, that didn't work. I tried holding it for 3-4 seconds, that didn't work. I'll try holding it longer and see what happens. If it works I'll owe you a virtual beer!

It's +11 right now and I have to go out in a couple hours. I'll give it a shot.

Thanks!!

That worked! Hold the recirc button down long enough and it will stay on until you turn it off. Still doesn't work with defrost, and there's no beep so I'm not sure how long you need to hold it down, but I'll take it.

Thanks again!