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Old 01-20-2019, 01:15 PM #16
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I looked at a two year old Raptor with 50k on it and it was still $10,000 higher than a new TRD Pro 4R! But if money was no object, the Raptor hands down!
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Old 01-20-2019, 01:26 PM #17
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Originally Posted by spoonmectr View Post
I looked at a two year old Raptor with 50k on it and it was still $10,000 higher than a new TRD Pro 4R! But if money was no object, the Raptor hands down!
Agreed...and I love the Baja racing results analogy, with $150k rigs and professional drivers. What’s next, are we going to start recommending Toyota Camry’s because of a couple Daytona 500 wins
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Old 01-20-2019, 01:44 PM #18
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Agreed...and I love the Baja racing results analogy, with $150k rigs and professional drivers. What’s next, are we going to start recommending Toyota Camry’s because of a couple Daytona 500 wins
Maybe you're not familiar with what stock class means in SCORE racing?

Ill help you out: All OEM suspension except shocks/springs. Full body. Stock drive train except you can re-gear the differentials and add lockers. Canguro racing that beat the Ford Factory sponsored Raptor team by 4 hours is a couple local guys here who run it out of their own garages. No big sponsors. No pro drivers. Still faster... because it's simply a better platform. Better axles. Better suspension design. Better engine. Better transmission. It's got about 15,000 race miles on it and a lot of test miles - without ever having engine or transmission work. Ford rarely keeps a Raptor running for a single race. Most of the Raptor's DNFs are due to engine or transmission failures. And those are stock parts. Push them hard and they don't survive.

For most owners performance doesn't matter. A show truck needs a good spec sheet, not a good track record. Things like the rear differential design doesn't matter at the mall. In the dirt it does matter. It's not an accident that the Tundra uses a mid pinion rear diff and a carrier bearing two piece shaft to keep it protected. The Raptor... not so much. It's not an accident Toyota's all have very well designed rear shock mounts. The raptor... not so much. In the 2017 Baja it showed why that matters. The Raptor broke the low hanging drive shaft. It also broke off a shock mount. The Land Cruiser didn't - because it's simply the product of better engineering and decades of iterative improvements.

They're apples and oranges. It just takes one look underneath to see the difference.

Seriously - you're going through a boulder field - do you really think that Raptor drive shaft is going to survive?

vs


The race results should surprise no one who's ever looked underneath.

Last edited by Jetboy; 01-20-2019 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 01-20-2019, 02:07 PM #19
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There is a reason a new Raptor is $30k higher than a new TRD Pro. Besides. If it’s under warranty who cares if it breaks!
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Old 01-20-2019, 02:43 PM #20
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Originally Posted by spoonmectr View Post
There is a reason a new Raptor is $30k higher than a new TRD Pro. Besides. If it’s under warranty who cares if it breaks!
Warranty doesn't cover most offroad damage. When 10 out of 14 Raptors bent their frames on a trail ride a few years ago - Ford didn't fix them.

Are Ford Raptor frames too weak for off-roading?

And the frame is designed to collapse if you bottom out the rear suspension.

SVT boss goes on record about Ford Raptor frame damage claims [w/video] - Autoblog


The raptors have a great spec sheet. I'm sure it wasn't cheap to build. They have a great set of shocks/springs and a nice interior. They're also a lot cheaper than a Land Cruiser. Kinda split the difference between a 4Runner and LC200.
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Old 01-20-2019, 02:44 PM #21
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Maybe you're not familiar with what stock class means in SCORE racing?

Ill help you out:

.
Or perhaps I just don’t give a sh!t....
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Old 01-20-2019, 02:45 PM #22
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Quote:
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Seriously - you're going through a boulder field - do you really think that Raptor drive shaft is going to survive?
Is the Raptor marketed as a rock crawler? Are jeeps marketed as high speed desert vehicles? Etc etc etc.

The raptor is an open country go fast vehicle, and I, and others, would contend there's no other vehicle out of the box currently being sold that's even in that same league. There's an obsession on this forum with a concept of a vehicle that's jack of all trades, yet forgetting the part of that saying that comes after.

I've had a lot of seat time in the Gen 1 and Gen 2, I wasn't super blown away by the Gen 1, but the Gen 2 continued to surprise me driving it in the conditions it was designed for. If you want to throw flak it's way with how it did in Baja, keep in mind just finishing that race is epic. Ford/Foutz Motorsports drove it under it's own power from Mesa, AZ to Ensenada, and down and back under it's own power. For essentially a beta vehicle. I know Kurt, and the Canguro guys are fantastic. But that vehicle was well tested in prior races, whereas Ford simply added a roll cage, and ran it with full door panels, full glass, etc. A tremendous amount of work went into Canguro's LC200, whereas if you're a Gen 2 raptor owner that Raptor (which I've seen in person) was outfitted with safety and fire suppression systems, nav/comms, but is the same raptor you can buy today (the current ones are even more improved).

The LC200 is a great vehicle, why it's 85K is a bit absurd, but if you took it in STOCK form down on the NORRA/SCORE courses it would get friggin' WRECKED. The Raptor is as close as you can get to a factory pre-runner. Does that make it a great purchase for the every day driver? I don't know, that's up to the buyer. As stated most owners will not rally them in open country. That's okay, most people are buying into the aspirational qualities of products. i.e that they COULD rally them if they lived near open country or were not afraid of the potential risks incurred with doing 100 down a 2-track in the middle of nowhere.

There's things I miss about my 4Runner, and things I don't. I'd say people who complain about the paint quality on toyotas; stop. My raptor had to have a fender re-painted in the first month. I think the interior is better put together on the raptor, but all current production vehicles, regardless of brand still have the same shitty plastics that scratch and turn white/blue if you look at them funny. The infotainment is far better on the Fords, but still clunky. Not Entune level clunky, but still clunky. I love getting 17-18mpg on 87 octane (I really should feed it 91 or 93 more often, I admit), with a 36 gallon tank.

A stock raptor has more suspension travel than you get with a toyota running a +3.5 long travel, and that's with the sway bars still attached!

The raptor has that associated douche bag owner stink about it, just like 4Runners have the soccer mom/overlander stigma about them too. If you're buying a vehicle for perception, I don't know what to tell you. I've been happy with my Raptor so far, but comparing two wildly different vehicles is kind of a fools errand.

You can slap a ton of "OFF ROAD" badges on a 4Runner, but it's not an off road tuned vehicle. The Raptor is more so, but as a result you pay for a big truck with some big features.

Frankly I think there's a LOT of terrain where both vehicles do equally well, and then terrain where each one shines. In Baja the Toyotas (not stock mind you) do a lot better in the technical stuff, but once the terrain opens up the Raptors are absolutely gone, and the Toyotas are eating their dust.

The 4Runner is a simpler product, it's still a super computerized truck that absolutely shits the bed if a sensor malfunctions, just like the Raptor. Someone best said it, you're comparing a 40K SUV *purchase* to a 40K truck *down payment*.

I've owned both, I don't think you can make a 4Runner into a raptor, and visa versa, and if you realize where both are really good at, you end up a lot happier as an owner.
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Old 01-20-2019, 02:58 PM #23
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this was a great thread:
Official 4Runner VS Raptor - Apples VS Oranges Thread
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Old 01-20-2019, 03:06 PM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonmectr View Post
There is a reason a new Raptor is $30k higher than a new TRD Pro. Besides. If it’s under warranty who cares if it breaks!
I care. I've never had a Toyota break under warranty. That's the best way to have a warranty - never needing to use it. Hassle-free!
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Old 01-20-2019, 03:18 PM #25
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Really, neither one is a very good rock crawler or a very good pre runner. They're both pretty good daily drivers that can make their way through 7/10 terrain if you're careful.

The raptor really should be compared to a Tundra, not a 4Runner. Out of the box the Tundra has a lot less suspension travel. The control arms are the same length as the Raptor. You're looking at $5k+ to get to 13" and $10k for 16" travel Tundra with comparable Fox suspension. Neither one is going to have much of a chance in the rocks - 140+ wheel base only works if you're in a Unimog.

How many raptors went home on trailers during the trail of the missions last year? Just saying...
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Old 01-20-2019, 03:22 PM #26
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How many raptors went home on trailers during the trail of the missions last year? Just saying...
Only 1, and that's because of an aftermarket upgrade on a HIGHLY customized vehicle.

FYI one of the toyotas went home on a trailer too ;)
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Old 01-20-2019, 03:57 PM #27
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Everyone has there own opinion. You can read all kinds of posts that people say the Pro cost to much. The Raptor cost to much. It’s a Ford. I have been driving Toyota’s for years. I had a Ford many years ago and so did my father. Nothing but problems with them. I traded my Tacoma in on my Pro. If I need to haul anything I will rent a open trailer it’s cheap. Even if the Pro and Raptor cost the same I would still buy the Pro. But like it said everyone has there own opinion.
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Old 01-20-2019, 04:09 PM #28
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If I was to buy five or so cars, i think a Raptor would be in the list, lol.

I like them, they look nice, guess perform nice, they are unique in a great way.

If I were to get a truck, guessing it would be a choice between a superduty or raptor, pretending money is not a factor.
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Old 01-20-2019, 06:15 PM #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDart View Post
Is the Raptor marketed as a rock crawler? Are jeeps marketed as high speed desert vehicles? Etc etc etc.

The raptor is an open country go fast vehicle, and I, and others, would contend there's no other vehicle out of the box currently being sold that's even in that same league. There's an obsession on this forum with a concept of a vehicle that's jack of all trades, yet forgetting the part of that saying that comes after.

I've had a lot of seat time in the Gen 1 and Gen 2, I wasn't super blown away by the Gen 1, but the Gen 2 continued to surprise me driving it in the conditions it was designed for. If you want to throw flak it's way with how it did in Baja, keep in mind just finishing that race is epic. Ford/Foutz Motorsports drove it under it's own power from Mesa, AZ to Ensenada, and down and back under it's own power. For essentially a beta vehicle. I know Kurt, and the Canguro guys are fantastic. But that vehicle was well tested in prior races, whereas Ford simply added a roll cage, and ran it with full door panels, full glass, etc. A tremendous amount of work went into Canguro's LC200, whereas if you're a Gen 2 raptor owner that Raptor (which I've seen in person) was outfitted with safety and fire suppression systems, nav/comms, but is the same raptor you can buy today (the current ones are even more improved).

The LC200 is a great vehicle, why it's 85K is a bit absurd, but if you took it in STOCK form down on the NORRA/SCORE courses it would get friggin' WRECKED. The Raptor is as close as you can get to a factory pre-runner. Does that make it a great purchase for the every day driver? I don't know, that's up to the buyer. As stated most owners will not rally them in open country. That's okay, most people are buying into the aspirational qualities of products. i.e that they COULD rally them if they lived near open country or were not afraid of the potential risks incurred with doing 100 down a 2-track in the middle of nowhere.

There's things I miss about my 4Runner, and things I don't. I'd say people who complain about the paint quality on toyotas; stop. My raptor had to have a fender re-painted in the first month. I think the interior is better put together on the raptor, but all current production vehicles, regardless of brand still have the same shitty plastics that scratch and turn white/blue if you look at them funny. The infotainment is far better on the Fords, but still clunky. Not Entune level clunky, but still clunky. I love getting 17-18mpg on 87 octane (I really should feed it 91 or 93 more often, I admit), with a 36 gallon tank.

A stock raptor has more suspension travel than you get with a toyota running a +3.5 long travel, and that's with the sway bars still attached!

The raptor has that associated douche bag owner stink about it, just like 4Runners have the soccer mom/overlander stigma about them too. If you're buying a vehicle for perception, I don't know what to tell you. I've been happy with my Raptor so far, but comparing two wildly different vehicles is kind of a fools errand.

You can slap a ton of "OFF ROAD" badges on a 4Runner, but it's not an off road tuned vehicle. The Raptor is more so, but as a result you pay for a big truck with some big features.

Frankly I think there's a LOT of terrain where both vehicles do equally well, and then terrain where each one shines. In Baja the Toyotas (not stock mind you) do a lot better in the technical stuff, but once the terrain opens up the Raptors are absolutely gone, and the Toyotas are eating their dust.

The 4Runner is a simpler product, it's still a super computerized truck that absolutely shits the bed if a sensor malfunctions, just like the Raptor. Someone best said it, you're comparing a 40K SUV *purchase* to a 40K truck *down payment*.

I've owned both, I don't think you can make a 4Runner into a raptor, and visa versa, and if you realize where both are really good at, you end up a lot happier as an owner.
Really wish Ford would hurry the eff up with unveiling the Bronco so some true comparisons can be made. And if they ever decide to go Raptor Bronco...that would be awesome.
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Old 01-20-2019, 10:42 PM #30
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Both vehicles are capable but a pickup truck is something we all need one time or another. Get the raptor if you really want it and you'll be happy. Maybe your wife will let you drive her 4runner once in a while just so you can get your fix.
This is what I did, except I went with reg F150. I needed a truck but I love the wifes 4runner. I drive the 4runner on weekends when I need a fix, if not, we go in my truck.
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