I didn't pay $55k for my pro bud. I got it $1,500 below MSRP. So take your salty ass somewhere else. Also you're probably just mad that you can't afford one.

It's not as good as you think. I put it on my trail with kdss and I wasn't that impressed. It did eliminate the nose dive so I was happy about that. My pro handles better than my trail did on and off road.



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Bummer, was hoping for a bit of improvement. I've been very happy with the ride of the OR as it sits, wanted to do the TRD struts as an upgrade with a minor lift--2"

No it does not. It is a measurable fact. Less articulation, especially with an added shock travel and 1” lift for OR, and more wallowing.

And yeah, I can afford two. Or three. It is just I am trained as a scientist and know what shovk valving does it does not do.

Don’t listen to him/her.

When all else fails, and you can no longer articulate a cogent rebuttal, you resort to dick measuring bank accounts....sounds like you’re the one who’s salty “Bud”, because my $30k used stage 2 Trail w/ KDSS is better on so many levels and more capable than your $55k bro rig with shitty suspension and worthless 17x7 wheels and tires

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17x7 wheels are very good wheels. And look great.

But you are right about the nonsenses of poseur cost measuring contest. ORP with KDSS is the best performing (unless hard core rock crawling) mid size SUV sold in US period. Regardless of cost. For me cost was not a consideration at all.

Are you guys seriously using a 1998 era sunroof and blinkers in the side mirrors as added value and fuel for you argument about how a Trail/TRDOR is better than a Pro? LOL this place is full of clowns.

No we are using the stuff that actually matters for on and off road performance - active sway bar system that Toyota puts on their high end off-road capable vehicles, and that is absent on cosmetic trims like Limited and Pro.

what is a stage 2 trail?

Do you like offroading? It seems not. KDSS excels in rock crawling, that's not the issue some people have with it on 4Rs.

There are two issues with KDSS, aside from easiness of modifications:

1/Unlike the GX case, it can beat you up on speeds above 15mph offroad. Unless you are driving buggies on extreme trails, most time offroad is spent on dirt roads and easy trails at speeds above 15 mph, whether one likes it or not. A GX is comfortable at those speeds, but a KDSS 4Runner lacks that part of the GX suspension. So, KDSS on a 4Runner is a premium bit on a vehicle that is not otherwise premium so the package is questionable.

2/ The second issue with KDSS is front ground clearance, of which it eats a full inch. That would not be an issue on a solid axle vehicle, but on the 4Runner it is a problem. A non-kdss can be armored instead of lifted but a KDSS vehicle really needs a lift. Yet, KDSS makes lifts harder and I am sure lifts undermine some of KDSS' value in helping with travel in rocks.

1+2=KDSS on a 4runner is optimized for people sticking mostly to pavement where it delivers in cornering and handling on daily basis.

As for the Pro, I may be the greatest fan of the despised non-Pro stock shocks here, but if you think that a performance suspension is not an upgrade offroad....

Finally, the premium Toyota offroader in the US is the 4Runner TRD series, any trim. The 2013+ GX is not very offroad capable in stock form due to abysmal approach angle and the 200-series Land Cruiser in stock form won't compete with a stock TRD 4Runner offroad, regardless of trim. The pre-2013 GX are offroad capable stock but not as much as a TRD series 5th generation due to lack of rear locker and worse angles. In between the TRD trims, the stock Pro will have the least issues getting the furthest with the stock KDSS TRD having the most. It is a 1.75" front clearance split between these two trims with mine in between. Stock vs stock.

Also, wallets have nothing to do with this discussion.

Nonsense. KDSS does not make anything worse for actual off-roading. Neglible clearance issue for improved articulation, which is what matters most, no matter what US monster truck lovers will make you think. Pro does get slight travel bump in front, easily matched in front and exceeded in rear with a simple to add shock and springs change.

Wallets had been mentioned by the Pro owner here who thinks Pro must be better since it costs more.

the ground clearance difference has been disproven lots of times on here. Go measure it.
The stock pro skidplate will fit on the trail / OR if it is notched. How is that possible if it takes up an entire extra inch?

the cutoff is 12mph. which equals 20kmph everywhere else in the world

Actually I'm not the one who brought up money. Someone else stated they could by anything they wanted. I stated the same thing and then someone else added that I paid $55k for mine. Sure try to turn it around on me. Not really worried about it. If you read the whole thread then you'll see offwidth and stonerunner has miserable lives. They clearly jealous as well. Instead of posting to help op who was curious they both decided to be dicks even though they barely have one.


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I have a 19 pro and to me it rides great. I drove a 19 ORP and I thought it drove like shit. But each to there own. I have a sunroof and softex no turn signals on Mirrors are not a major thing. I also didn’t pay 55k I got $1600 off msrp. I don’t plan on doing anything major to it for a good while so the suspension on the pro is fine for now. I like the color I have one reason why I bought it. For the people that buy and rip everything off it’s not like they are wasting tons of money they can sell the parts for something. I think you people that talk bad about what someone bought or did to THIER vehicle do so to make yourself feel better becsued you are lacking something in your life.