User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-13-2019, 03:15 PM #1
4RExplorer 4RExplorer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Maryland
Posts: 90
Real Name: Ted
4RExplorer is on a distinguished road
4RExplorer 4RExplorer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Maryland
Posts: 90
Real Name: Ted
4RExplorer is on a distinguished road
Charging a LiFePO4 house battery from alternator

I am looking into how to charge a LiFePO4 house battery from the vehicle alternator. Assumptions:

(1) The average daily electrical usage will be 300Wh, +/- 50Wh. With this usage, a 100Ah 12.8V LiFePO4 battery with 1280Wh capacity would last 4 days or so before it needs to be recharged.

(2) For cost reasons, it would be preferable to use the Toyota OEM alternator, instead of upgrading to a high output alternator.

(3) To avoid overheating the OEM alternator, the charge current will be limited to 20A or so.

Under these conditions, what battery charger works best?

Some options, with potential issues that have come up:

(1) Ctek D250SA. This multi-stage charger includes a 1st stage at 15.8V to desulfate the battery. Some LiFePO4 battery makers (e.g., the Trojan Trillium) say specifically to avoid chargers with an automatic desulfation stage, because the battery’s BMS might stop the charging at such high voltage, and charging might not resume when the charge voltage drops down to 14.8V or so.

(2) Victron Energy Buck Boost, 25A. Victron Energy released a video showing installation of a Buck Boost for charging a 200Ah Victron Energy LiFePO4 battery in a Volkswagen bus. The Help screen where they configure the Buck Boost displays a message saying that if the output current is limited (e.g. to 20A instead of the default 25A or 50A), and the house battery demands more than this limit (due to being somewhat discharged), then the voltage will not reach the programmed voltage.

(3) Balmar MC-614H. I’m told that to use this voltage regulator, the OEM alternator’s regulator should be disabled, so the starter battery will not be charged by the alternator, and the Check Battery light will always be on.

(4) Mastervolt Alpha Plus III. This device charges at 90A, so a high-output alternator would be required. The alternator may need to be modified so that it has “negative regulation”. The User Manual suggests having two V-belts to the engine.

(5) Mastervolt Mac Plus 12/12-50. This also requires the alternator have “negative regulation”.

I am not an expert, so some of the above issues might turn out to be non-issues. Which of the above chargers (or others, like the RedArc BCDC1225) would work well for charging a LiFePO4 house battery from the 4Runner’s OEM alternator? If not from the alternator, solar panels would be my 2nd choice.
__________________
2019 4Runner TRD Off Road
4RExplorer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-13-2019, 05:02 PM #2
Xtremluck's Avatar
Xtremluck Xtremluck is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,228
Xtremluck is a splendid one to behold Xtremluck is a splendid one to behold Xtremluck is a splendid one to behold Xtremluck is a splendid one to behold Xtremluck is a splendid one to behold Xtremluck is a splendid one to behold Xtremluck is a splendid one to behold
Xtremluck Xtremluck is offline
Senior Member
Xtremluck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,228
Xtremluck is a splendid one to behold Xtremluck is a splendid one to behold Xtremluck is a splendid one to behold Xtremluck is a splendid one to behold Xtremluck is a splendid one to behold Xtremluck is a splendid one to behold Xtremluck is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4RExplorer View Post
I am looking into how to charge a LiFePO4 house battery from the vehicle alternator. Assumptions:



(1) The average daily electrical usage will be 300Wh, +/- 50Wh. With this usage, a 100Ah 12.8V LiFePO4 battery with 1280Wh capacity would last 4 days or so before it needs to be recharged.



(2) For cost reasons, it would be preferable to use the Toyota OEM alternator, instead of upgrading to a high output alternator.



(3) To avoid overheating the OEM alternator, the charge current will be limited to 20A or so.



Under these conditions, what battery charger works best?



Some options, with potential issues that have come up:



(1) Ctek D250SA. This multi-stage charger includes a 1st stage at 15.8V to desulfate the battery. Some LiFePO4 battery makers (e.g., the Trojan Trillium) say specifically to avoid chargers with an automatic desulfation stage, because the battery’s BMS might stop the charging at such high voltage, and charging might not resume when the charge voltage drops down to 14.8V or so.



(2) Victron Energy Buck Boost, 25A. Victron Energy released a video showing installation of a Buck Boost for charging a 200Ah Victron Energy LiFePO4 battery in a Volkswagen bus. The Help screen where they configure the Buck Boost displays a message saying that if the output current is limited (e.g. to 20A instead of the default 25A or 50A), and the house battery demands more than this limit (due to being somewhat discharged), then the voltage will not reach the programmed voltage.



(3) Balmar MC-614H. I’m told that to use this voltage regulator, the OEM alternator’s regulator should be disabled, so the starter battery will not be charged by the alternator, and the Check Battery light will always be on.



(4) Mastervolt Alpha Plus III. This device charges at 90A, so a high-output alternator would be required. The alternator may need to be modified so that it has “negative regulation”. The User Manual suggests having two V-belts to the engine.



(5) Mastervolt Mac Plus 12/12-50. This also requires the alternator have “negative regulation”.



I am not an expert, so some of the above issues might turn out to be non-issues. Which of the above chargers (or others, like the RedArc BCDC1225) would work well for charging a LiFePO4 house battery from the 4Runner’s OEM alternator? If not from the alternator, solar panels would be my 2nd choice.


Curious to hear thoughts about this. My secondary AGM battery is already on the decline because it’s not being charged properly by the alternator. This is only after a year of use too.

Doesn’t seem many folks go lithium ion for some reason. Not sure why because it seems it would be a perfect solution. My guess is that it’s a bit more complicated than you would think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
'12 Silver 4Runner SR5: 14+ facelift, CBI front, CBI Rear, Warn EVO 10-S, ARB Snorkel, Baja Designs 30" S8, Squadron Sports, S2 Rack Lights, King 2.5 Suspension, OME 899, 33" Cooper ST Maxx, Full CBI Skids, Metaltech Sliders, GFC Tent, ARB Awning

Xtremluck's 2012 SR5 Build Thread
Xtremluck is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-13-2019, 08:57 PM #3
SlickTRD SlickTRD is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: NY, FL
Posts: 572
SlickTRD has a spectacular aura about SlickTRD has a spectacular aura about SlickTRD has a spectacular aura about
SlickTRD SlickTRD is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: NY, FL
Posts: 572
SlickTRD has a spectacular aura about SlickTRD has a spectacular aura about SlickTRD has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtremluck View Post
Curious to hear thoughts about this. My secondary AGM battery is already on the decline because it’s not being charged properly by the alternator. This is only after a year of use too.

Doesn’t seem many folks go lithium ion for some reason. Not sure why because it seems it would be a perfect solution. My guess is that it’s a bit more complicated than you would think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did you modify/increase the voltage to charge AGM batteries?
__________________
Cement, RCI Skids & Sliders, Nitto Ridge Grappler, Northstar AGM, Goose Gear Plate, Dometic CFX 65W, Dometic Fridge Slide, BPF Molle Panel, Pedal Commander, Compustar, BlackVue, Diode Dynamics SS3
SlickTRD is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-14-2019, 09:41 AM #4
4RExplorer 4RExplorer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Maryland
Posts: 90
Real Name: Ted
4RExplorer is on a distinguished road
4RExplorer 4RExplorer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Maryland
Posts: 90
Real Name: Ted
4RExplorer is on a distinguished road
I found some more ideas in this article on one of the vendor sites. It suggests that if some part of the system interrupts the connection between the alternator and the house battery when it gets fully charged, then there is no need to disable the alternator's regulator, as long as the starter battery is still connected to the alternator. This addresses the issue with the Balmar MC-614H described above.
__________________
2019 4Runner TRD Off Road

Last edited by 4RExplorer; 05-14-2019 at 09:50 AM.
4RExplorer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-14-2019, 10:07 AM #5
jhguth jhguth is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,305
jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold
jhguth jhguth is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,305
jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtremluck View Post
Doesn’t seem many folks go lithium ion for some reason. Not sure why because it seems it would be a perfect solution.
$$$$
jhguth is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-14-2019, 10:39 AM #6
jhguth jhguth is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,305
jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold
jhguth jhguth is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,305
jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold jhguth is a splendid one to behold
good resource for reviewing and discussing charging:
LiFePO4 Charging Archives - Battle Born Batteries
jhguth is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-14-2019, 09:22 PM #7
4RExplorer 4RExplorer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Maryland
Posts: 90
Real Name: Ted
4RExplorer is on a distinguished road
4RExplorer 4RExplorer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Maryland
Posts: 90
Real Name: Ted
4RExplorer is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhguth View Post
good resource for reviewing and discussing charging:
LiFePO4 Charging Archives - Battle Born Batteries
Some interesting stories there. I see most of them are charging from shore power or solar. But one person used the Sterling Power BB1230 to charge the battery from the alternator. Apart from the reportedly noisy internal cooling fan, I'm not sure what to think of this charger.

Another used the Precision Circuits Battery Isolation Manager, which seems to charge the battery with much less precision than most DC-to-DC chargers. It charges for an hour, then stops regardless of the battery's SOC, and resumes charging only if either the starter or house battery drops below 80% SOC and the other battery is being charged.
__________________
2019 4Runner TRD Off Road
4RExplorer is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-14-2019, 09:39 PM #8
stephan07 stephan07 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Boston
Posts: 197
stephan07 will become famous soon enough
stephan07 stephan07 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Boston
Posts: 197
stephan07 will become famous soon enough
The Redarc charges my battle born just fine off the alternator, off solar, and off AC!
__________________
2017 TRD PRO Barcelona Red,RCI Sliders,RCI Alum Skids +C4 Fuel Skid, 285 Nitto Ridge Grapplers, Icon Rebound 17x8, HID, SSO Slimline Front Bumper/Warn Zeon 10s Plat, SSO High Clearance Mod, ..King 2.5 Res, Total Chaos UCA & LCAs, ARB Fridge, Battle Born Second battery with RedArc& Solar, ARB Drawers..Frontrunner Full Rack and CVT Mt Ranier RTT, C4 Ladder, Sprint Booster
2021 Audi RS6-Tuned 820hp
2017 F12 Berlinetta
stephan07 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Tags
alternator , battery , charging , lifepo4 , voltage

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Changed alternator, still not charging. meekie4 3rd gen T4Rs 23 09-01-2021 10:23 AM
Alternator not charging at idle Drunner97 4th Gen T4Rs 44 01-30-2019 06:01 PM
4.7 Alternator not charging help PLZ! Need ideas. swapmeet 4th Gen T4Rs 17 03-31-2015 11:34 AM
PLZ HELP! Battery not charging, alternator tests good. swapmeet 4th Gen T4Rs 7 03-15-2015 07:54 PM
Alternator charging post snapped(hopefully that is the right name.) thejonnyjones 3rd gen T4Rs 2 02-18-2014 07:20 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:50 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2020