User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-27-2019, 10:27 AM #31
MTN4RNR's Avatar
MTN4RNR MTN4RNR is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,652
Real Name: Max
MTN4RNR is a jewel in the rough MTN4RNR is a jewel in the rough MTN4RNR is a jewel in the rough
MTN4RNR MTN4RNR is offline
Senior Member
MTN4RNR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,652
Real Name: Max
MTN4RNR is a jewel in the rough MTN4RNR is a jewel in the rough MTN4RNR is a jewel in the rough
Just a little teaser GIF of the full-resolution photos that @Baja Designs will post soon comparing OEM low beam, to OEM low beam + OEM fog, and OEM low beam + Baja Designs Squadron SAE

MTN4RNR is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 06-27-2019, 01:13 PM #32
jpaws jpaws is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: NC
Posts: 69
jpaws is on a distinguished road
jpaws jpaws is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: NC
Posts: 69
jpaws is on a distinguished road
Just so I am clear, one would need to purchase the lights of course, and then also the "kit" to fit these into the factory location?

294.95 = Lights
134.95 = Mounting Kit/Wires

10% off

Total with shipping (5 bucks) = 391.91
jpaws is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 01:00 PM #33
Baja Designs's Avatar
Baja Designs Baja Designs is offline
Official Vendor
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Marcos, CA
Posts: 296
Baja Designs will become famous soon enough
Baja Designs Baja Designs is offline
Official Vendor
Baja Designs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Marcos, CA
Posts: 296
Baja Designs will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpaws View Post
Just so I am clear, one would need to purchase the lights of course, and then also the "kit" to fit these into the factory location?

294.95 = Lights
134.95 = Mounting Kit/Wires

10% off

Total with shipping (5 bucks) = 391.91
We do sell complete kits (everything included)
Here are the Amber and White options:

Baja Designs - Toyota, Tacoma/Tundra/4Runner, Squadron SAE Fog Light Kits

$429.95 before discounts, tax (where applicable), and shipping
__________________
ENTER BDForums coupon code at checkout to save 10% + $5 Shipping to the Lower 48!
bajadesigns.com - Facebook - Instagram - info@bajadesigns.com - (800)422-5292
Baja Designs is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 01:00 PM #34
Baja Designs's Avatar
Baja Designs Baja Designs is offline
Official Vendor
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Marcos, CA
Posts: 296
Baja Designs will become famous soon enough
Baja Designs Baja Designs is offline
Official Vendor
Baja Designs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Marcos, CA
Posts: 296
Baja Designs will become famous soon enough


The Squadron SAE is shipping now!

Check it out in the video below:
YouTube
__________________
ENTER BDForums coupon code at checkout to save 10% + $5 Shipping to the Lower 48!
bajadesigns.com - Facebook - Instagram - info@bajadesigns.com - (800)422-5292
Baja Designs is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 05:17 PM #35
SparkySparks83 SparkySparks83 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 20
SparkySparks83 is on a distinguished road
SparkySparks83 SparkySparks83 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 20
SparkySparks83 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baja Designs View Post


The Squadron SAE is shipping now!

Check it out in the video below:
YouTube
Ordered!
SparkySparks83 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-03-2019, 06:33 PM #36
cb1111's Avatar
cb1111 cb1111 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 371
cb1111 has a spectacular aura about cb1111 has a spectacular aura about cb1111 has a spectacular aura about
cb1111 cb1111 is online now
Member
cb1111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 371
cb1111 has a spectacular aura about cb1111 has a spectacular aura about cb1111 has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumbo View Post
From what I am reading in this thread… this light unfortunately does not have a DOT approval, only SAE. So from a purely legal standpoint, still not street legal as it needs a DOT approval?

I would be pretty happy to be proven wrong, because I could justify something like this if I could use them on-road in addition to off-road. DOT approval basically means instant win if you ever got a fix-it ticket or some sort of violation.

From reading the link above:
“Therefore, just because a vehicle component such as a LED light is SAE approved, it does not mean it is legal to be used on public roads, all it means is that the quality of the design and construction meet the standards set by SAE, which are very high standards indeed.”
Just clear up a few things, neither SAE not DOT "approve" anything.

SAE International (formerly called the Society of Automotive Engineers) is a professional organization that has zero clout and no legal standing.

Equally, the Department of Transportation doesn't approve anything. DOT (via the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration - NHTSA) sets and codifies the safety rules in the Code of Federal Regulations in 49 C.F.R, Chapter V, Part 571.

Lighting is in 49 CFR § 571.108 - Standard No. 108; Lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment.

In short (and in layman's language)
  • A manufacturer must certify (generally by marking the lens) that the lighting unit meets all the specifications.
  • A lighting unit can only be replaced with an identical type - so if the car came with halogens, any replacement must meet all of the 108 specs AND be halogen (or HID/LED - whatever that car came with.
  • No secondary light (i.e. driving/ditch etc.) except for a fog light may be on with the headlights. - ergo these supplemental lights CANNOT meet a DOT spec. Any other certifications (for the US) are meaningless.

As an aside, "Off-road" is not a term that is recognized by any law or rule. In short, if a part can be attached to a street legal car, then that part must meet all the regs.

If anyone is interested, here is the PDF on the testing procedures. Interesting factoid is that there is weathering test requirement that may not be simulated - the housing must be exposed to the elements for two years (headlights) without damage in order to be certified.

There are some upcoming changes that you can read about here. If anyone is interested, I can tell you why changes take so long. Hint - it has nothing to do with NHTSA or DOT.

Now that we know why these lights are illegal, what does it really mean?

For the manufacturer:

Selling non-conforming lighting is illegal. IIRC, the fine is $1600 per lighting unit and a mandatory recall.

For the consumer:

While the regs are Federal and cannot be modified by the states, the requirement to enforce the regs is delegated to states for their periodic inspections (if any).

Some states are stricter in the enforcement of lighting laws and some don't care. A popular mod in the Euro community is deleting side marker lights - one thing that will fail your car in PA, but isn't tested in adjoining MD (but then, MD has no periodic testing - only when a car is registered in the state or title transferred to another Md resident).

Many states don't care about supplemental lighting if they are covered.

As an aside, Canadian laws mirror the US regs with only a few exceptions (mandatory DRLs is the most significant lighting difference).

Feel free to ask if you have other questions.
__________________
When in trouble - obfuscate
cb1111 is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-10-2019, 01:31 AM #37
originalg00kster's Avatar
originalg00kster originalg00kster is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: San Diego
Posts: 132
originalg00kster is on a distinguished road
originalg00kster originalg00kster is offline
Member
originalg00kster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: San Diego
Posts: 132
originalg00kster is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1111 View Post
Just clear up a few things, neither SAE not DOT "approve" anything.

SAE International (formerly called the Society of Automotive Engineers) is a professional organization that has zero clout and no legal standing.

Equally, the Department of Transportation doesn't approve anything. DOT (via the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration - NHTSA) sets and codifies the safety rules in the Code of Federal Regulations in 49 C.F.R, Chapter V, Part 571.

Lighting is in 49 CFR § 571.108 - Standard No. 108; Lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment.

In short (and in layman's language)
  • A manufacturer must certify (generally by marking the lens) that the lighting unit meets all the specifications.
  • A lighting unit can only be replaced with an identical type - so if the car came with halogens, any replacement must meet all of the 108 specs AND be halogen (or HID/LED - whatever that car came with.
  • No secondary light (i.e. driving/ditch etc.) except for a fog light may be on with the headlights. - ergo these supplemental lights CANNOT meet a DOT spec. Any other certifications (for the US) are meaningless.

As an aside, "Off-road" is not a term that is recognized by any law or rule. In short, if a part can be attached to a street legal car, then that part must meet all the regs.

If anyone is interested, here is the PDF on the testing procedures. Interesting factoid is that there is weathering test requirement that may not be simulated - the housing must be exposed to the elements for two years (headlights) without damage in order to be certified.

There are some upcoming changes that you can read about here. If anyone is interested, I can tell you why changes take so long. Hint - it has nothing to do with NHTSA or DOT.

Now that we know why these lights are illegal, what does it really mean?

For the manufacturer:

Selling non-conforming lighting is illegal. IIRC, the fine is $1600 per lighting unit and a mandatory recall.

For the consumer:

While the regs are Federal and cannot be modified by the states, the requirement to enforce the regs is delegated to states for their periodic inspections (if any).

Some states are stricter in the enforcement of lighting laws and some don't care. A popular mod in the Euro community is deleting side marker lights - one thing that will fail your car in PA, but isn't tested in adjoining MD (but then, MD has no periodic testing - only when a car is registered in the state or title transferred to another Md resident).

Many states don't care about supplemental lighting if they are covered.

As an aside, Canadian laws mirror the US regs with only a few exceptions (mandatory DRLs is the most significant lighting difference).

Feel free to ask if you have other questions.
Sooo....are we good on the streets or naw?
originalg00kster is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-10-2019, 02:18 AM #38
mynameistory's Avatar
mynameistory mynameistory is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 468
mynameistory has a spectacular aura about mynameistory has a spectacular aura about mynameistory has a spectacular aura about
mynameistory mynameistory is offline
Member
mynameistory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 468
mynameistory has a spectacular aura about mynameistory has a spectacular aura about mynameistory has a spectacular aura about
__________________
-Tory

- 2016 4Runner - WeatherTech Floor Liners - Key Fob Window Roll-down Mod - 35 PSI Tire Pressure - Gum Holder Delete - iOttie Phone Holder - RainX Windshield Mod - Stock Windshield Wipers (for now) - Radio Stations are 105.9, 106.7, 95.5, and 93.1 - Chrome Exhaust Tip - Really want a Gobi Ladder but I guess I'll just stand on the Tire because it's free and does the same thing - Some Old Coleman Ice Chest - A Gas Can I Found -
mynameistory is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-10-2019, 09:26 AM #39
MTN4RNR's Avatar
MTN4RNR MTN4RNR is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,652
Real Name: Max
MTN4RNR is a jewel in the rough MTN4RNR is a jewel in the rough MTN4RNR is a jewel in the rough
MTN4RNR MTN4RNR is offline
Senior Member
MTN4RNR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,652
Real Name: Max
MTN4RNR is a jewel in the rough MTN4RNR is a jewel in the rough MTN4RNR is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by originalg00kster View Post
Sooo....are we good on the streets or naw?
Yes, you are.
MTN4RNR is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-10-2019, 09:53 AM #40
cb1111's Avatar
cb1111 cb1111 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 371
cb1111 has a spectacular aura about cb1111 has a spectacular aura about cb1111 has a spectacular aura about
cb1111 cb1111 is online now
Member
cb1111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 371
cb1111 has a spectacular aura about cb1111 has a spectacular aura about cb1111 has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by originalg00kster View Post
Sooo....are we good on the streets or naw?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTN4RNR View Post
Yes, you are.
It depends if the testing station or the cop elects to enforce the regulations.

I would certainly cover the lights when going though periodic safety inspection. It is unlikely that you'll get stopped by a cop just for having these but you may get stopped if you're using them on road.

It is easy for a manufacturer, retailer or forum member to say "just do it" but they won't be the ones that will pay any tickets you might get. You need to research the laws and enforcement in your area and decide for yourself.
__________________
When in trouble - obfuscate
cb1111 is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-10-2019, 10:30 AM #41
IanB's Avatar
IanB IanB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada
Posts: 2,098
IanB will become famous soon enough IanB will become famous soon enough
MY GARAGE
IanB IanB is offline
Senior Member
IanB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada
Posts: 2,098
IanB will become famous soon enough IanB will become famous soon enough
MY GARAGE
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1111 View Post
It depends if the testing station or the cop elects to enforce the regulations.

I would certainly cover the lights when going though periodic safety inspection. It is unlikely that you'll get stopped by a cop just for having these but you may get stopped if you're using them on road.

It is easy for a manufacturer, retailer or forum member to say "just do it" but they won't be the ones that will pay any tickets you might get. You need to research the laws and enforcement in your area and decide for yourself.
They are really sticky about this kind of thing where I live, but having SAE stamped on the lense would be enough to pass an inspection. They aren't sophisticated enough to test and show that the light would not pass the requirements. I'm sure this is true of most places in North America.
__________________
'93 Toyota LandCruiser VX Ltd 4.2TD - 3X e-lockers, winch, factory fridge, 285/75/16E Duratracs, ICON Stage 1 3" lift, GTurbo Grunter Extreme
'04 Lexus GX470 Ultra Premium - Dobinsons springs/shocks, XD HID lows
'15 4Runner Ltd - 1" front spacer, FJ Cruiser 8 holes w/ 255/75/17 Duratracs, XD HID low/9011 high beams, Sprint Booster, Husky liners, Canvasback cargo liner
'91 Toyota LandCruiser VX Ltd 4.2TD RIP - 3X e-lockers, winch, OME 861/862, 285/75/16E Duratracs, factory fridge
'96 Toyota Hilux Surf SSR-G 3.0TD RIP - 265/75/16C Duratracs, '99 tall fronts, OME 906's rear
IanB is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-10-2019, 12:55 PM #42
Baja Designs's Avatar
Baja Designs Baja Designs is offline
Official Vendor
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Marcos, CA
Posts: 296
Baja Designs will become famous soon enough
Baja Designs Baja Designs is offline
Official Vendor
Baja Designs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Marcos, CA
Posts: 296
Baja Designs will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by originalg00kster View Post
Sooo....are we good on the streets or naw?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTN4RNR View Post
Yes, you are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1111 View Post
It depends if the testing station or the cop elects to enforce the regulations.

I would certainly cover the lights when going though periodic safety inspection. It is unlikely that you'll get stopped by a cop just for having these but you may get stopped if you're using them on road.

It is easy for a manufacturer, retailer or forum member to say "just do it" but they won't be the ones that will pay any tickets you might get. You need to research the laws and enforcement in your area and decide for yourself.

You are fine to run these on the street as fog lights

Please keep in mind that MOST states only allow the fogs to be operated during poor weather conditions. (Rain, Fog, Dust, Snow, etc.)

We don't recommend running these 24/7
__________________
ENTER BDForums coupon code at checkout to save 10% + $5 Shipping to the Lower 48!
bajadesigns.com - Facebook - Instagram - info@bajadesigns.com - (800)422-5292
Baja Designs is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-10-2019, 02:51 PM #43
cb1111's Avatar
cb1111 cb1111 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 371
cb1111 has a spectacular aura about cb1111 has a spectacular aura about cb1111 has a spectacular aura about
cb1111 cb1111 is online now
Member
cb1111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 371
cb1111 has a spectacular aura about cb1111 has a spectacular aura about cb1111 has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baja Designs View Post
You are fine to run these on the street as fog lights

Please keep in mind that MOST states only allow the fogs to be operated during poor weather conditions. (Rain, Fog, Dust, Snow, etc.)

We don't recommend running these 24/7
Wait, these things are fog lights now? Do they meet the standards for fog lights? (Height off the ground, beam pattern, aim etc.?)

Baja - feel free to PM me.
__________________
When in trouble - obfuscate
cb1111 is online now   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-10-2019, 03:36 PM #44
N2TRKYS N2TRKYS is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Alabama
Posts: 118
N2TRKYS is on a distinguished road
N2TRKYS N2TRKYS is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Alabama
Posts: 118
N2TRKYS is on a distinguished road
I love my Squadron Pro-R driving combo in amber too much to change to these.
N2TRKYS is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 07-10-2019, 04:38 PM #45
Baja Designs's Avatar
Baja Designs Baja Designs is offline
Official Vendor
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Marcos, CA
Posts: 296
Baja Designs will become famous soon enough
Baja Designs Baja Designs is offline
Official Vendor
Baja Designs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Marcos, CA
Posts: 296
Baja Designs will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb1111 View Post
Wait, these things are fog lights now? Do they meet the standards for fog lights? (Height off the ground, beam pattern, aim etc.?)

Baja - feel free to PM me.
Yes - these are SAE J583 compliant for fog light use
__________________
ENTER BDForums coupon code at checkout to save 10% + $5 Shipping to the Lower 48!
bajadesigns.com - Facebook - Instagram - info@bajadesigns.com - (800)422-5292
Baja Designs is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fog , kit , pocket , pre-order , sae

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Baja Designs - ALL NEW SAE SQUADRON PRE-ORDER @ Battle Born Offroad Battle Born Offroad General Discussions 13 06-05-2019 09:17 PM
Baja Designs - ALL NEW SAE SQUADRON PRE-ORDER @ Battle Born Offroad Battle Born Offroad 5th gen T4Rs 6 04-17-2019 03:30 PM
Baja Designs - ALL NEW SAE SQUADRON PRE-ORDER @ Battle Born Offroad Battle Born Offroad Battle Born Offroad 0 04-16-2019 04:54 PM
Baja Designs Squadron R Sport ToyRunner4Me General Discussions 3 12-01-2018 12:19 AM
Baja Designs Squadron fog Angled Bezel jayhat 5th gen T4Rs 15 11-20-2018 10:36 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:36 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2019


Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.