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Old 06-12-2019, 08:42 PM #16
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Originally Posted by Charlievee View Post
Why would you not want the option of going over 114? The 4runner is easy to drive, even at speed. Likes to cruise at 95 on the long haul if your not careful. Never drive faster then you can see. If I need to drive 150 mph I want that option and could care less what a coffee shop hipster has to say about it, because if I'm driving that fast it's for a reason.
* I would like to see a lifted 4runner perform any sort of sudden evasive maneuver under 100ft at 95mph. Hell I would pay.

* Those speeds border criminal negligence in most states and definitely is if you kill someone. You prob won't be talking about hipsters at your trial.

* Leave coffee out of this.

* Your engine ain't getting to 250-300K if you drive at 95 all the time with stock gearing.

* Enjoy standing tall before the man not once but twice when you get a criminal speeding ticket off base. UCMJ baby.

Last edited by Mutant138; 06-12-2019 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:58 PM #17
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Originally Posted by Mutant138 View Post
* I would like to see a lifted 4runner perform any sort of sudden evasive maneuver under 100ft at 95mph. Hell I would pay.

* Those speeds border criminal negligence in most states and definitely is if you kill someone. You prob won't be talking about hipsters at your trial.

* Leave coffee out of this.

* Your engine ain't getting to 250-300K if you drive at 95 all the time with stock gearing.

* Enjoy standing tall before the man not once but twice when you get a criminal speeding ticket off base. UCMJ baby.
Free country if one can afford it! Hundreds of miles of open road. If I need to I want the option. Nothing more nothing less. Or can only LEO's have such grand skill to navigate over 70 mph when needed?
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:18 PM #18
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I may have touched near 100 once. I have no interest in being up there in the 4Runner. It's downright dangerous and irresponsible.
Agreed. I had my ‘84 Supra at 120 one time and that was enough for me. Sensibility took over.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:21 PM #19
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...and the top nominee for the 2019 Darwin Award is....
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:33 PM #20
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:36 PM #21
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Originally Posted by Charlievee View Post
Why would you not want the option of going over 114? The 4runner is easy to drive, even at speed. Likes to cruise at 95 on the long haul if your not careful. Never drive faster then you can see. If I need to drive 150 mph I want that option and could care less what a coffee shop hipster has to say about it, because if I'm driving that fast it's for a reason.
Having the ability to go a certain speed and actually driving that fast is simply a measure of your wisdom. Heck, a Corolla is much more friendly at 114+ than a 4Runner, but wisdom says neither should be driven that fast. Manufacturers design speed constraints into their vehicles because of a number of reasons. Chief among those is the stability of the vehicle at xxx speed. Be unwise if you wish, but keep in mind that your perceived “right to go fast” will end the moment someone gets hurt as a result.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:38 PM #22
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Now I'm not one for racing station wagons, but if I wanted to take the mall crawler out on the Nürburgring ring that's my business. Maybe I can get a better lap time then that old school bus. Lol.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:41 PM #23
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Having the ability to go a certain speed and actually driving that fast is simply a measure of your wisdom. Heck, a Corolla is much more friendly at 114+ than a 4Runner, but wisdom says neither should be driven that fast. Manufacturers design speed constraints into their vehicles because of a number of reasons. Chief among those is the stability of the vehicle at xxx speed. Be unwise if you wish, but keep in mind that your perceived “right to go fast” will end the moment someone gets hurt as a result.
Can and will are two very different things. It is up to the individual to decide when and where.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:52 PM #24
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Now I'm not one for racing station wagons, but if I wanted to take the mall crawler out on the Nürburgring ring that's my business. Maybe I can get a better lap time then that old school bus. Lol.
Yeah, I have yet to hear of anyone taking their 4Runner to the track. As for the road, idiotic driving is best left to the idiots.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:57 PM #25
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Yeah, I have yet to hear of anyone taking their 4Runner to the track. As for the road, idiotic driving is best left to the idiots.
There's a guy or two that plays drag race in here. As for the Nürburgring ring, a few Euro will get you on the track on non-race/ testing days.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:08 PM #26
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There's a guy or two that plays drag race in here. As for the Nürburgring ring, a few Euro will get you on the track on non-race/ testing days.
Yeah, but a 4Runner? Who’s going to take his 4Runner to Germany to run laps at Nurburgring?
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:18 PM #27
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Guys it’s not about top speed it’s about the drivability. The top speed limiter removal is a + I will never use unless I have to deal with an idiot that keeps passing me and slows down then when I pass they speed up so I can’t pass. The law of the limiter removed says I will pass their sedan. Idiots out there! Speed kills I know.

Has anyone done the VR tune to share results?
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:56 PM #28
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Most of you should just avoid performance threads as you obviously don’t get it!

My limits are turned off on my Super Duty and Mustang and yes the Mustang might have gone over the factory limit.

You hand ringers really ought to butt out!
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Old 06-13-2019, 12:57 AM #29
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The tune gains are likely very real. If the stock tune is very conservative on target AFRs, it's likely because that keeps it running rich, which allows the cylinders to run cooler than optimal, to reduce knock/ping on really hot summer days, under super heavy load, and/or on low grade fuel (ie 87 in some rural non-top-tier station).

This massive safety margin is why, though, that I debate whether I want to put a tune on my 4Runner.

See, it was an easy call on my 2010 Miata. The gains were real -- I took the stock vehicle from 167 hp at the crank to about 195 at the crank, by improving the intake, exhaust, and headers... and then doing a tune.

That Mazda engine would get best power at a peak AFR around 13.7. However, the stock tune would barely touch 12.0 just for durability's sake. So given that car was my baby, I figured I'd never give it less than 91 octane here in CA, and only top tier gas ever... so I'd be ok to reduce the safety margins... and we started revising the tune around better vvt timing tables and pushing closer to peak 13.X AFR

Interestingly, once I passed about 13.3, under any kind of heavy load (WOT), i'd start to get knock if I was anywhere below the powerband. It's generally called lugging. But the knock here was WAY worse as I pushed leaner and leaner. To the point we had to stop at about 13.3.

In other words, we left some power on the table just to have the practical safety of not having bad knock in a common situation that daily driver would encounter - say, in liike a highway onrap WOT acceleration from 2k rpm. In summary, I figured I'd rather have 195 hp and keep some reliability, over 200-205 hp and possibly blow my engine within a week from terrible knock by trying to get that liiiiittle inch closer to theoretical peak AFR.

So why do I mention all this?

Because there's a reason Toyota, like Mazda, has the 4.0L running so pig-rich stock. It's because they know these trucks are driven hard, often in 115F+ desert heat, on old oil, on bad 87 gas from some shitty podunk station that has lots of water and dirt in the gas tanks, while towing a trailer.... and they thus run enough extra gas into the combustion to prevent knock even with all those factors at once, so that the engine will STILL last 500k+ miles.

And if you get a tune, you'll definitely get more power out of the 4.0L. But if it's say, 300hp instead of 289hp (what the stock 4.0L gets on 91 octane instead of 87)....I'm not sure that's worth losing all the reliability which was the whole point we all got Toyotas in the first place.

And I just flat-out don't trust an aftermarket tuner to do the due diligence to know EXACTLY what threshold of AFR, timing pulling, and safety margin they need for the rare situation I listed above, where it's say a heatwave, you're towing, and using bad gas. I certainly would prefer to go a smidge slower, and be protected by a huge Toyota engineering team's experience in safety margin building, rather than some 5-person tuning company's experience.

PS - if you think I'm overcautious, consider the facts that in the course of tuning my Mazda...
a) my expert tuner accidentally turned off the vvt advance tables altogether one time lol
b) once accidentally set the AFR targets a tad too aggressively, and I only noticed when I logged on a hotter, 92f+ day, and saw a shitton of major, 5+ degree knock simple on part-throttle going up an incline offramp onto the highway. If I hadn't caught that, engine might have blown up and thrown a rod within a week.
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:35 AM #30
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Hey fellas,

I've had the tune for quite a while now, its been running solid on 89 octane here in TX and I felt it when I initially did it, glad you're doing some tracking of data on it. I am so used to the tune now, its just normal for me, which is how it should be.

Lets not let this thread turn into almost every other tune thread. Tunes are not just for getting around nurburgring dropping lap times . Its about efficiency and some of us prioritize where to spend our money differently than others so, lets keep an open mind.

Regarding pedal commanders and this tune, that is apples to oranges as to what they accomplish. They can be stacked and Vivid even suggested that to me, which I did not do. I just run this tune and URD y pipes, and safari snorkel as of now. Vivid's tune does up the pedal response a bit and you can feel it but its not as pronounced as a PC from a pedal sensitivity standpoint.
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